So Where Are All Fresh Fi Jobs ?
A recession and its winter and a house price crash and you are telling me there are normal levels of interest in doing a PPL course or keeping current? Are you telling me that instructors are being snapped up by airlines desperate for pilots?
As far as I can see the demand and supply of FI's low and high and its going to get worse.
I agree the market was pretty good at the start of this year.
I speak solely of the UK market here.
WWW
As far as I can see the demand and supply of FI's low and high and its going to get worse.
I agree the market was pretty good at the start of this year.
I speak solely of the UK market here.
WWW
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WWW - goodness me, give it a rest.
Firstly, recession not confirmed. Unless you are Merv King and are about to announce it.
Secondly, a house price crash has zero effect on the vast majority of the population's cash situation. A basic understanding of economics tells you that the only home owners affectd by a housing slump are those forced to sell. That is not many. If your average house drops 15% in value, it makes no difference to your monthly income/outgoings.
Thirdly, winter. Eh? Do we not have a winter every year? Do we see masses of FIs made redundant in November and re-employed in March? No, we don't. The fact is that FTO's keep roughly the same numbers of FI's all year round and just vary the amount of flying each gets if the wx is crap. Simple.
Besides, you show me an FTO which isn't mad busy in Jan/Feb with trial flights bought for christmas presents.
The ratio of jobs to instructors is very good. The amount of FI's I know is in double fugures. None are out of work. I have been offered a job as an FI and I haven't even started my FIC.
Don't get me wrong WWW. I know times is tough. And the credit cruch has yet to peak. Anyone who is going to start training now should think very carefully, particularly about taking out a loan.
However, you seem to have a preconcieved idea that the end is neigh. Which is fine. And you go on about it. And on. And on. Your perogative, if a little tedious. But now you have resorted to making up imaginary factors (recession, winter) or factors which while serious, are not cash sensitive (housing) to put the FI industry down when it is probably the healthiest aviation related industry out there.
Where are all the FTO's going under? Where are all the unemployed FI's? Jawad is having probelms due to his license not the industry.
If you want to tell it how it is then fine. But don't make it out to be worse.
EK
Firstly, recession not confirmed. Unless you are Merv King and are about to announce it.
Secondly, a house price crash has zero effect on the vast majority of the population's cash situation. A basic understanding of economics tells you that the only home owners affectd by a housing slump are those forced to sell. That is not many. If your average house drops 15% in value, it makes no difference to your monthly income/outgoings.
Thirdly, winter. Eh? Do we not have a winter every year? Do we see masses of FIs made redundant in November and re-employed in March? No, we don't. The fact is that FTO's keep roughly the same numbers of FI's all year round and just vary the amount of flying each gets if the wx is crap. Simple.
Besides, you show me an FTO which isn't mad busy in Jan/Feb with trial flights bought for christmas presents.
The ratio of jobs to instructors is very good. The amount of FI's I know is in double fugures. None are out of work. I have been offered a job as an FI and I haven't even started my FIC.
Don't get me wrong WWW. I know times is tough. And the credit cruch has yet to peak. Anyone who is going to start training now should think very carefully, particularly about taking out a loan.
However, you seem to have a preconcieved idea that the end is neigh. Which is fine. And you go on about it. And on. And on. Your perogative, if a little tedious. But now you have resorted to making up imaginary factors (recession, winter) or factors which while serious, are not cash sensitive (housing) to put the FI industry down when it is probably the healthiest aviation related industry out there.
Where are all the FTO's going under? Where are all the unemployed FI's? Jawad is having probelms due to his license not the industry.
If you want to tell it how it is then fine. But don't make it out to be worse.
EK
EK 4457: Well I was a flying instructor for 7 years and I've seen a few downturns before. I know this year has been good for schools. A lot of airline recritment has seen FI turnover be quite high. A lot of people have made a lot of money out of house price inflation and a booming economy and the baby boomer generation is now retiring. Those 25% pension draw downs often find their way into GA. Good, I'm really pleased.
But.
Recession. Its here. You know it, I know it and within a couple of months the official figures will show it.
Secondly a HPC means the effective end of the £9BILLION a year mortgage equity withdrawal spending in the consumer economy. Regardless of anyone losing anything or selling anything. On top of that negative equity or fear of it hits consumer spending particularly on discretionary leisure services like flying instruction. Always has done, always will.
Thirdly yes Winter is a slowdown time for flying schools and there are plenty of part time instructors who barely work over the winter and full timers who are really part time by November. I was one for a year or two. I can show you a few FTO's who are pretty damn quiet in February every year.
The FTO's going under will be along shortly and the instructors looking for work the same morning. Wish it weren't so but it will be.
Hell a little hiccup like Sept 11th sent PPSC, SFT, Four Forces and European Flyers bust within months.
But as you only did a PPL in 2006 you probably don't appreciate that people like me (and I'm early 30's so not too crusty yet) have been in this business long enough to have seen this all before. Your ignorance of what has gone before leads you to dismiss me as some tedious delusionist. Fair enough. I can understand that.
I can offer no advice regarding FI opportunities in the sub-continent as I know nothing about that.
WWW
But.
Recession. Its here. You know it, I know it and within a couple of months the official figures will show it.
Secondly a HPC means the effective end of the £9BILLION a year mortgage equity withdrawal spending in the consumer economy. Regardless of anyone losing anything or selling anything. On top of that negative equity or fear of it hits consumer spending particularly on discretionary leisure services like flying instruction. Always has done, always will.
Thirdly yes Winter is a slowdown time for flying schools and there are plenty of part time instructors who barely work over the winter and full timers who are really part time by November. I was one for a year or two. I can show you a few FTO's who are pretty damn quiet in February every year.
The FTO's going under will be along shortly and the instructors looking for work the same morning. Wish it weren't so but it will be.
Hell a little hiccup like Sept 11th sent PPSC, SFT, Four Forces and European Flyers bust within months.
But as you only did a PPL in 2006 you probably don't appreciate that people like me (and I'm early 30's so not too crusty yet) have been in this business long enough to have seen this all before. Your ignorance of what has gone before leads you to dismiss me as some tedious delusionist. Fair enough. I can understand that.
I can offer no advice regarding FI opportunities in the sub-continent as I know nothing about that.
WWW
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Jawad,
Theres a couple of ad's in this months GA flying mags for FI's, including restricted FI's...UK based. These are the one's that are advertising......but there's plenty who dont. Your best bet is to make some phonecalls.
Theres a couple of ad's in this months GA flying mags for FI's, including restricted FI's...UK based. These are the one's that are advertising......but there's plenty who dont. Your best bet is to make some phonecalls.
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Theres a couple of ad's in this months GA flying mags for FI's, including restricted FI's...UK based
THE MIDDLE EAST: not possible without some instructional experience..
South America:
Africa:South Africa is out of the question....But sefofane is looking for flight instructors for its flying school
sefofane, air charters, charter service, aircraft, southern africa, flying safaris, guided air safaris, wilderness safaris, south africa, botswana, namibia, zimbabwe, zambia, beechcraft, baron 55, baron 58, beech 1900, king air 200, cessna, cessna 20
The only places that I know of where he could possibly try and get a job with Zero experience were China and malaysia..But according to JAWAD he cannot work in the above mentioned countries as he had explained in earlier posts...
SO that leaves JAWAD with no option but to try and get a job in Pakistan itself
....JAWAD:I'm almost in the same position as you are,the only difference I can work in malaysia as an AFI......Try and get some hours from the local flying clubs and then apply for jobs outside pakistan.. I'm sure the paki flying clubs would let you fly their A/c's if you tell them that you will work for FREE
...
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thank alot....
thanks for all ur replies....mr hitman thank u very much...i have applied in safone air...job scope here as a fi is bad no empty slots in flying clubs...i wanna move out from here.......it might take time for fi job....in pak
cheers,
jawad
cheers,
jawad
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Wow - WWW is in his early 30s??
Holy crap i thought you were in your 60's or something, shocked i am!!
I thought only old men with aching backs and stiff knees rant on about how miserable the world is!
Real eye opener
Holy crap i thought you were in your 60's or something, shocked i am!!
I thought only old men with aching backs and stiff knees rant on about how miserable the world is!
Real eye opener
Old men rant because they know the mistakes young men are about to repeat.
t' internet only shortens that process by half a century and puts it in your spare bedroom. Incredible when you think about it.
WWW
t' internet only shortens that process by half a century and puts it in your spare bedroom. Incredible when you think about it.
WWW
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Welshman,
Your early 30's!!??.....you need to get out more mate before you need the happy pills(seriously!!)!! Im actually quite shocked. Victor Meldrew eat your heart out. I thought I was old bitter and twisted and had lost all faith in humanity after 12 years of the Constabulary...but you Sir take the biscuit!
Your early 30's!!??.....you need to get out more mate before you need the happy pills(seriously!!)!! Im actually quite shocked. Victor Meldrew eat your heart out. I thought I was old bitter and twisted and had lost all faith in humanity after 12 years of the Constabulary...but you Sir take the biscuit!
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History Repeating Itself
1. Boomtime everybody gets jobs - www = Hero
2. Busttime nobody gets jobs - apparently www doesn't know if he needs a sh1t or a haircut
3. Airlines stop recruiting - everybody gets FI rating
4. Posts on Pprune "so where are all the fresh FI jobs then???"
5. Reality check posts get met with derision and disbelief
6. Goto 2 for 3 years........
7. If 3 years is up goto 1
Exactly same happened in 2001 the only thing missing is the infamous best ever Blackadder quotes thread from the same era.......errr in fact
1. Boomtime everybody gets jobs - www = Hero
2. Busttime nobody gets jobs - apparently www doesn't know if he needs a sh1t or a haircut
3. Airlines stop recruiting - everybody gets FI rating
4. Posts on Pprune "so where are all the fresh FI jobs then???"
5. Reality check posts get met with derision and disbelief
6. Goto 2 for 3 years........
7. If 3 years is up goto 1
Exactly same happened in 2001 the only thing missing is the infamous best ever Blackadder quotes thread from the same era.......errr in fact
I want to see how a war is fought so badly.......
Well, you've come to the right place then, there hasn't been a war run this badly since King Otto the Incredibly Stupid ordered 8,000 viking helmets with the horns on the inside.
Well, you've come to the right place then, there hasn't been a war run this badly since King Otto the Incredibly Stupid ordered 8,000 viking helmets with the horns on the inside.
Last edited by G-SPOTs Lost; 9th Oct 2008 at 21:41.
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I am shocked! WWW, you act like a 55-60 year old who we don't really like but respect because of your years of experience and wisdom gained from those years. To hear you are in your early 30s is a complete suprise. So when you talk about the economy in 1990 etc you were in your mid teens?!
Watch out everyone- 3000 posts on an internet forum can change you for life!
Watch out everyone- 3000 posts on an internet forum can change you for life!
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Oh grow up children. Like or loathe WWW, he's only giving you the benefit of his knowledge and I'll bet a pound to a pinch of **** that his knowledge is worth more than any aspiring wannabes here so stop using him as an excuse to ignore the bleedin' obvious because you are only fooling yourselves! Recession is all but upon us (in fact, take a look at the stock market data from the past week and tell me we're not wiping our feet at the entrance of a worldwide recession!) but as far as this moment in time goes, there has been no drop in interest in learning to fly at my flying school and trial lessons are still shifting via the usual crop of intermediary shop window/google outfits.
So there's some comforting news at least.
WWW is basing his predictions on the previous recession but there's nothing to say that this credit crunch come recession will mirror previous recessions is there? Think about it. Times change and the world works slightly different now than it did 10, 20 or 30 years ago so we may not see a set trend repeat itself this time. Disposable cash will still be around for those who didn't base their business success on credit in the last 10 years. We are in unique times. Kenneth Clarke said earlier this week that it's a credit hangover and that it will last until at least 2010. If this is the case then we've just gotta sip the orange juice and ride it out, simple as that.
But back to the main issue behind this thread - -that of FI jobs - - my insincts tell me they must be drying up although on a daily basis I see nothing which leads me to verify this assumption. Indeed, I know of work available at nearby schools to me right now but how long that will last is anyones guess...
VFE.
So there's some comforting news at least.
WWW is basing his predictions on the previous recession but there's nothing to say that this credit crunch come recession will mirror previous recessions is there? Think about it. Times change and the world works slightly different now than it did 10, 20 or 30 years ago so we may not see a set trend repeat itself this time. Disposable cash will still be around for those who didn't base their business success on credit in the last 10 years. We are in unique times. Kenneth Clarke said earlier this week that it's a credit hangover and that it will last until at least 2010. If this is the case then we've just gotta sip the orange juice and ride it out, simple as that.
But back to the main issue behind this thread - -that of FI jobs - - my insincts tell me they must be drying up although on a daily basis I see nothing which leads me to verify this assumption. Indeed, I know of work available at nearby schools to me right now but how long that will last is anyones guess...
VFE.
Last edited by VFE; 9th Oct 2008 at 22:28.
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Actually I think WWW mis-typed that, when he says “early 30s” he must have meant “early 1930s” right?
Forget house prices, winter slowdowns, global economic crisis and the fact that every airline (or school - to be on topic) you might have got a job from is going to go bust the day after you finish your training, what you really want to worry about is the airline industry turning you into Victor bl
dy Meldrew after just a few years! 
Forget house prices, winter slowdowns, global economic crisis and the fact that every airline (or school - to be on topic) you might have got a job from is going to go bust the day after you finish your training, what you really want to worry about is the airline industry turning you into Victor bl
dy Meldrew after just a few years!
Educated Hillbilly
My only comment would be 9/11 didn't send SFT bust, the school was in financial trouble well before 9/11. Remember there were plenty of students at SFT training and plenty of students signing up for courses up to the time it went bust. Although SFT went under soon after 9/11, it was too soon after 9/11 for the affect of 9/11 to have affected trade. Do seem to remember it didn't take the management team/ a certain director from SFT to resume operating a training school just over road form the SFT not so along after (what is now EPTA).
Four Forces, "financial management" or "intentional mismanagement" as the case was by the Iverson brothers may have more to do with downfall of Four Forces than 9/11.
Four Forces, "financial management" or "intentional mismanagement" as the case was by the Iverson brothers may have more to do with downfall of Four Forces than 9/11.
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He did live with her but she got so irritated with his constant moaning and ranting about the economy that she had no choice but to kick him out.
I think he now lives and sleeps in a pa28 cockpit with only his laptop and pprune to keep him company!!
I think he now lives and sleeps in a pa28 cockpit with only his laptop and pprune to keep him company!!
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Could anyone, or on of the agents (administrator) close this thread. It main subject was about how jawad to get a FI job, not to attack WWW about his age or wisdom.
Jawad at the curren market the only place that take fresh FI is china, pakistan don't have good relationship with china so it will not work. Same with India. Why not try flight schools in Africa (nigeria) and caribbean. I'm certain I saw an add on www.climbto350.com regarding a FI job in Nigeria for few weeks ago. Try this website www.pilotcareercenter.com and call every flight school where you might be able to validate your pakistani FI license to tha state of issue.
Ignore this negative comments from certain individuals in this website. I have been in similar situation,, just hang in there and the job will come.
good luck, if I find something I will let you know.
bye
Jawad at the curren market the only place that take fresh FI is china, pakistan don't have good relationship with china so it will not work. Same with India. Why not try flight schools in Africa (nigeria) and caribbean. I'm certain I saw an add on www.climbto350.com regarding a FI job in Nigeria for few weeks ago. Try this website www.pilotcareercenter.com and call every flight school where you might be able to validate your pakistani FI license to tha state of issue.
Ignore this negative comments from certain individuals in this website. I have been in similar situation,, just hang in there and the job will come.
good luck, if I find something I will let you know.
bye
Victor Meldrew - Hmmm, at times yes.
I got a PPL at 17, was instructing by the age of 20, was a commercial instructor to Integrated and Cadets in Jerez, and these days a skipper in the 2nd largest UK airline. I'm a couple of years shy of mid 30's, married, live on a farm, shoot, ride and spend a bit of time trading on the markets.
Miserable and bitter I am totally not.
Lucky I am.
Ignore me you shall.
WWW
I got a PPL at 17, was instructing by the age of 20, was a commercial instructor to Integrated and Cadets in Jerez, and these days a skipper in the 2nd largest UK airline. I'm a couple of years shy of mid 30's, married, live on a farm, shoot, ride and spend a bit of time trading on the markets.
Miserable and bitter I am totally not.
Lucky I am.
Ignore me you shall.
WWW
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"Firstly, recession not confirmed. Unless you are Merv King and are about to announce it.
Secondly, a house price crash has zero effect on the vast majority of the population's cash situation. A basic understanding of economics tells you that the only home owners affectd by a housing slump are those forced to sell. That is not many. If your average house drops 15% in value, it makes no difference to your monthly income/outgoings."
Must be nice on your planet EK4457... back here on planet earth only those inhabiting padded cells think the UK isn't in recession. Sometimes I wonder if some of you folks ever venture out into the real world.... life may well deal you a pretty unpleasant surprise in the next 6-12 months
Secondly, a house price crash has zero effect on the vast majority of the population's cash situation. A basic understanding of economics tells you that the only home owners affectd by a housing slump are those forced to sell. That is not many. If your average house drops 15% in value, it makes no difference to your monthly income/outgoings."
Must be nice on your planet EK4457... back here on planet earth only those inhabiting padded cells think the UK isn't in recession. Sometimes I wonder if some of you folks ever venture out into the real world.... life may well deal you a pretty unpleasant surprise in the next 6-12 months