finally a job but.... BUT....!
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Number, i sympathise with your situation. I'm 38 and finished my flight training 3 years ago,did all the CV sending and ringing about in the hope of that vital break.
I was on verge of doing my own T/R when I got that all important phone call asking if i was still available,thought about it for a nano-second and now i'm flying a very well equiped T/P.
If you can hold-off and wait for that golden nugget of a job,then do so. If I (at 38 years young) can do it, then perhaps others can.
Hope this is of some use.
I was on verge of doing my own T/R when I got that all important phone call asking if i was still available,thought about it for a nano-second and now i'm flying a very well equiped T/P.
If you can hold-off and wait for that golden nugget of a job,then do so. If I (at 38 years young) can do it, then perhaps others can.
Hope this is of some use.
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Join Date: May 2002
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Thanks again guys .. .. Im at the airport right now, just spoke again
with all the main guys in the company.
To answer some questions: will I be payed when I will be working? YES
Do I have to pay my type rating in advance? YES
I can ask to have my type rating price taken away from my salary,
which will be already riduculous .... what if they will not accept
it? Is it a clear sign?
I have another job in standby, which has got nothing to do with
aviation, due date is the first of July .. and I'm supposed to start
my TR the 20 of June... but I'll have to go through the TSA
I'm still chewing on it.....
with all the main guys in the company.
To answer some questions: will I be payed when I will be working? YES
Do I have to pay my type rating in advance? YES
I can ask to have my type rating price taken away from my salary,
which will be already riduculous .... what if they will not accept
it? Is it a clear sign?
I have another job in standby, which has got nothing to do with
aviation, due date is the first of July .. and I'm supposed to start
my TR the 20 of June... but I'll have to go through the TSA
I'm still chewing on it.....
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
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Guys,
after carefully thinking, I decided not to go for it. Tomorrow I will have one last word with the CEO and I will state the following: I will take the deal only if I will be hired now.
I can't afford to stay several months without a salary, I would leave a very good job, not aviation related but which pays off quite well.
I would have to cover my type rating, I would have to go through the 40 legs without pay.... all this at my own risk this whole process might take 5-6 months, I will be very honest here: you know how much I was offered per month? 1034 pounds... which already includes the flying benefits... 500 pounds if I do not fly for example.
It's ok to be passionate about something but this is not a good deal, I can't be very objective because I really want to be a pilot but I was told by my family not to risk that much
after carefully thinking, I decided not to go for it. Tomorrow I will have one last word with the CEO and I will state the following: I will take the deal only if I will be hired now.
I can't afford to stay several months without a salary, I would leave a very good job, not aviation related but which pays off quite well.
I would have to cover my type rating, I would have to go through the 40 legs without pay.... all this at my own risk this whole process might take 5-6 months, I will be very honest here: you know how much I was offered per month? 1034 pounds... which already includes the flying benefits... 500 pounds if I do not fly for example.
It's ok to be passionate about something but this is not a good deal, I can't be very objective because I really want to be a pilot but I was told by my family not to risk that much
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Sounds well dodgy to me, even for a first job offer. Type ratings are always speculative, do you mind telling us exactly what the hell type of aircraft they wanted you to pay £13K for the type rating on?
If it was a 19 seat turboprop or better then fair play to em - but there are far far too many shifty operators charging those kind of sums for a bloody Chieftain endorsement these days - which should be 3 grand absolute max.
If it was a 19 seat turboprop or better then fair play to em - but there are far far too many shifty operators charging those kind of sums for a bloody Chieftain endorsement these days - which should be 3 grand absolute max.
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Join Date: May 2002
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do you mind telling us exactly what the hell type of aircraft they wanted you to pay £13K for the type rating on?
Its a crappy deal and should be viewed as a £13k gamble.
However, it probably will work out and the First Job is biggest hurdle in the whole race. Once over that the world rapidly improves for you.
Good luck,
WWW
However, it probably will work out and the First Job is biggest hurdle in the whole race. Once over that the world rapidly improves for you.
Good luck,
WWW
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ya type ratings are speculative, thats why i decided to hold back ... if all the pilots would do the same im sure that airliners would be forced to treat us with some more respect
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Number, tough call my man. There will be people who have turned down crap first jobs and regretted it and people like me who turned down their first job offer and ended up better off. But I do know what its like when you're thinking "at the end of the day its a flying job". I turned down a multi-turbine job straight after my IR, but the terms and conditions were horrendous...
pay was going to be £70 a week, a free caravan to live in, they wanted £6000 for a type rating and I would have had to move to a foreign country. Just wasn't worth it for me so I spent £5k on an Instructor rating and got a jet job 12 months later.
Good luck and its all good experience.
pay was going to be £70 a week, a free caravan to live in, they wanted £6000 for a type rating and I would have had to move to a foreign country. Just wasn't worth it for me so I spent £5k on an Instructor rating and got a jet job 12 months later.
Good luck and its all good experience.
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Sounds horrid.
I would get a contract before ever taking this. Sounds too bad.
Last thing you want is to hear them say : "OH sorry we decided to employ Mr. XXX, but hey do stay in touch!"
Last thing you want is to hear them say : "OH sorry we decided to employ Mr. XXX, but hey do stay in touch!"
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Good decision. It is very rare for someone in your situation to do what you did and turn down the chance of a jet job because the terms and conditions were very poor. I am sure loads of idiots on this forum would be willing to not only pay for the TR but also for 500 hours in the right seat. It is people like you that I have a lot of respect for as you are doing the opposite of most and not helping to lower standards in pay and conditions. I don't mean to sound condescending but well done. 
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Number,
What was the reaction of the CEO?
It is a very brave decision you took. It is a sh*tty deal. Perhaps you can obtain a FI rating or do some other flying activities (para dropping etc) in your spare time to boost up you flying career.
good luck (y)
What was the reaction of the CEO?
It is a very brave decision you took. It is a sh*tty deal. Perhaps you can obtain a FI rating or do some other flying activities (para dropping etc) in your spare time to boost up you flying career.
good luck (y)
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if you take this job there you're whats wrong with the industry. Dont be a whore and dont rush to get into a flashy new plane. First of $13K? and then 40 legs with no pay. Doest seem like you mean very much to them. They're just trying to find suckers.... dont be a sucker
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Paying for your own type rating and then not getting paid while you do your line training is not a good start. Why don't you make a deal with the guy, he pays for the type rating and you get a contract with a bond attached over say two or three years. You could take out a joint commercial loan with a bank. If you walk the loan goes with you and as long as you remain employed he services the debt for you. Both of you win.
Working for a small taxi outfit that may not have full time trainers available for you could mean a very protracted time to finish your line training. You should not even offer to work for free during your line training as you will be employed commercially on the line while being trained.
It all sounds rather like a dubious deal, you make all the effort and all the expenses and get nothing in return. Working for free during your SEP's, your line training and already spending time in the office updating Jepps and manuals?
Does not sound like an employer you should be involved with.
BTW, 1,000 per month as an FO is insane. The going rate for an FO is probable double or trebble that.
Working for a small taxi outfit that may not have full time trainers available for you could mean a very protracted time to finish your line training. You should not even offer to work for free during your line training as you will be employed commercially on the line while being trained.
It all sounds rather like a dubious deal, you make all the effort and all the expenses and get nothing in return. Working for free during your SEP's, your line training and already spending time in the office updating Jepps and manuals?
Does not sound like an employer you should be involved with.
BTW, 1,000 per month as an FO is insane. The going rate for an FO is probable double or trebble that.
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What was the reaction of the CEO?
I wasn't even allowed to talk to him directly, I spoke to his flunkey, who, in front of me, called the CEO and told him I suggested a 3 year bond.... well he turned me down at once, the whole conversation lasted 1 minute
if you take this job there you're whats wrong with the industry
In fact I didn't take it. Although it's easier to preach than to practice, don't know how many would have done the same in my position...
BTW, 1,000 per month as an FO is insane. The going rate for an FO is probable double or trebble that.
let me stress this out better: the salary was made of a fixed and a variable part, depending on how much you were flying.... well, the 1000 per month already included both, with the maximum flying.
The fixed part was 554 pounds, gross.
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You pay for the TR and you don't get paid!? 
{flashbacks of reading the Ryan air thread 
)
Stay away i say
{flashbacks of reading the Ryan air thread )Stay away i say
Good luck!
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Number
In the wise words of Captain John Lee.
1) Never refuse a job
2) Never refuse a jet job
3) Never refuse command
You are about to transgress rule no. 1. If you follow rule no.1 then its likely that rule no. 3 will follow quickly. In time rule no.2 will be open to you to follow or not. In time rule no. 3 will come about again on the back of rule no. 2.
Then at FL390 from the left hand seat on your way to a few days in the Caribbean or wherever, you'll say. Hmmmmmm what was that post im made on Pprune must look it up some time.
Vortex thing
Well said!
Number please dont give up or give in. Find a away.
This next comment is not directed at you but a view of what ive seen recently.
It just seems that too many people are getting into this job that aren't really committed or have a deep love of the total thrill of flying for your beer and chicken tikka massala tokens. The first hurdle and it's, "im gonna give up and move into something else", because, "no one's beating down my door to offer me a job". For some its takes years to get a job and in my case it was 7 from CPL issue to first commercial job and never gave up.......not even once. Each set back was just another problem to win over.
This industry has changed so much and we all have to adapt and this is where some have problems.
Your problems are just another hurdle to over come and you know that resistance to flying is futile.
Good luck and i hope you make the right decision and if you do safe flying.
In the wise words of Captain John Lee.
1) Never refuse a job
2) Never refuse a jet job
3) Never refuse command
You are about to transgress rule no. 1. If you follow rule no.1 then its likely that rule no. 3 will follow quickly. In time rule no.2 will be open to you to follow or not. In time rule no. 3 will come about again on the back of rule no. 2.
Then at FL390 from the left hand seat on your way to a few days in the Caribbean or wherever, you'll say. Hmmmmmm what was that post im made on Pprune must look it up some time.
Vortex thing
Well said!
Number please dont give up or give in. Find a away.
This next comment is not directed at you but a view of what ive seen recently.
It just seems that too many people are getting into this job that aren't really committed or have a deep love of the total thrill of flying for your beer and chicken tikka massala tokens. The first hurdle and it's, "im gonna give up and move into something else", because, "no one's beating down my door to offer me a job". For some its takes years to get a job and in my case it was 7 from CPL issue to first commercial job and never gave up.......not even once. Each set back was just another problem to win over.
This industry has changed so much and we all have to adapt and this is where some have problems.
Your problems are just another hurdle to over come and you know that resistance to flying is futile.
Good luck and i hope you make the right decision and if you do safe flying.
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Never give up.......absolutely
Very wise words at a time that aviation employers are starting to do some number crunching.
At age 34, if you don't get employed pretty quickly I suspect that the market will not be available to you again for some while. By that point you might be 37 and now things can get really difficult.
Please consider that even though it is not a good deal, it is still a deal and is infinitely less expensive than potentially having wasted all the money and time you spent getting to this point because you can't get a job.
Experience is everything in this game. Once you have experience you are head and shoulders above those without it...REGARDLESS OF AGE.
Seriously consider your position. If you paid for your TR you won't be bonded and WITH EXPERIENCE you can probably find a better deal sooner rather than later.
The good old days are gone.
At age 34, if you don't get employed pretty quickly I suspect that the market will not be available to you again for some while. By that point you might be 37 and now things can get really difficult.
Please consider that even though it is not a good deal, it is still a deal and is infinitely less expensive than potentially having wasted all the money and time you spent getting to this point because you can't get a job.
Experience is everything in this game. Once you have experience you are head and shoulders above those without it...REGARDLESS OF AGE.
Seriously consider your position. If you paid for your TR you won't be bonded and WITH EXPERIENCE you can probably find a better deal sooner rather than later.
The good old days are gone.
