Pilots!!!!
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AlphaMale, the problem with air taxi is that insurance companies who insure air taxi operators stipulate minimum hours for pilots.
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qualified Nov '07 - 350 hours, no sniff of a job on anything bigger than a 172, work for an aerial photography outfit occasionally. Alpha male, most air taxi companies want at least 700 hours and around 50 hours SE IFR time, so that one is out of the window. also, most people need something to pay the debts off, which is why they apply to bigger companies!
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The jobs are out to be had.
I was at the time.....
fATPL ME/IR MCC FI 300hrs when i got a job.
I would have taken anything but got lucky and now on A321, it is just a case of getting your cv out as much as you can.
One of the things i was told by the recruiters was that they like to see progression not stagnation.
So don't wait, get out and do anything, even if it is only for a few months, just do it. Don't just do the minimum amount of hours to keep the licence, find a club that needs aircraft ferried to maintenance if funds are short.
Anything you can do to make your cv stand out helps.
I was at the time.....
fATPL ME/IR MCC FI 300hrs when i got a job.
I would have taken anything but got lucky and now on A321, it is just a case of getting your cv out as much as you can.
One of the things i was told by the recruiters was that they like to see progression not stagnation.
So don't wait, get out and do anything, even if it is only for a few months, just do it. Don't just do the minimum amount of hours to keep the licence, find a club that needs aircraft ferried to maintenance if funds are short.
Anything you can do to make your cv stand out helps.
Educated Hillbilly
Alpha Male,
JAR ops requirements for single pilot air taxi is 700 total time with at least 40 p1 multi IFR. Due to the shortage some operators are now taking people with the minimum, however it was quite common when the job market wasn't quite so good for air taxi firms to ask for 1000 hours total with between 100 to 200 multi.
Centreline air charter have a concession such that they are able to employ pilots with 400 hours total time for single pilots ops, but I believe this is the only the company to my knowledge with this concession ( there may be one or two others of course). I Infact the post where you read the 400 tt requirement was requirement was written by the manager of Centreline.
f you are lucky as a safety pilot for an air taxi firm you may be able to log the multi time flying empty sectors, but otherwise to obtain the multi-time you may be looking at spending around 6000 pounds on an hour building trip to the states (100 pounds an hour is about the cheapest hire for twins in the US, so take in account all your other expenses). However the people I have known to get safety pilot postion in order to obtain the mulit time for single pilot ops have tended to be instructors with 700-1000 hours. At the moment any one with 700-1000 hours has a good chance of getting an interview with a jet or turboprop operator (see my previous post).
So if you spend 6000 on the twin time at low hours Centreline is the only air taxi firm that could employ you; just because you have the multi time doesn't mean you will pass the company base check.
JAR ops requirements for single pilot air taxi is 700 total time with at least 40 p1 multi IFR. Due to the shortage some operators are now taking people with the minimum, however it was quite common when the job market wasn't quite so good for air taxi firms to ask for 1000 hours total with between 100 to 200 multi.
Centreline air charter have a concession such that they are able to employ pilots with 400 hours total time for single pilots ops, but I believe this is the only the company to my knowledge with this concession ( there may be one or two others of course). I Infact the post where you read the 400 tt requirement was requirement was written by the manager of Centreline.
f you are lucky as a safety pilot for an air taxi firm you may be able to log the multi time flying empty sectors, but otherwise to obtain the multi-time you may be looking at spending around 6000 pounds on an hour building trip to the states (100 pounds an hour is about the cheapest hire for twins in the US, so take in account all your other expenses). However the people I have known to get safety pilot postion in order to obtain the mulit time for single pilot ops have tended to be instructors with 700-1000 hours. At the moment any one with 700-1000 hours has a good chance of getting an interview with a jet or turboprop operator (see my previous post).
So if you spend 6000 on the twin time at low hours Centreline is the only air taxi firm that could employ you; just because you have the multi time doesn't mean you will pass the company base check.
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portsharbourflyer - Thanks for the constructive post, I had heard about the 700hr rule before but when Phill posted this I guessed it showed me that with 400TT there are jobs spaces even for a low hour fATPL holder.
Personally I am looking forward to instructing for a year or two but given the chance of flying a jet I'm hardly going to turn it down.
Good luck with the new job too you've worked for it.
Graham - Nice original post
... 'pompus' is actually spelt 'pompous' just to let you know 
Can I be bothered to bite the bait?
Personally I am looking forward to instructing for a year or two but given the chance of flying a jet I'm hardly going to turn it down.
Good luck with the new job too you've worked for it.
Graham - Nice original post
... 'pompus' is actually spelt 'pompous' just to let you know Can I be bothered to bite the bait?
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Alphamale, I presume we're talking about the UK rather than somewhere with a big outback like canada. I want a taxi, I get one with a three pointed star driven by a man from Kashmir. Any further I drive myself or catch a train. These guys are more than entitled to look to the jets as their first jobs. By all means do your apprenticeship, working your way up your imaginary ladder - if it means you feel more authentic then grand, but I encourage the guys to get on with their lives.
I don't have figures to hand so this is supposition, but I'd guess there are more jet transport aircraft operating in the uk each day than some 30 year old prop-taxi. Bit of a niche market in small heavily urbanised countries.
I don't have figures to hand so this is supposition, but I'd guess there are more jet transport aircraft operating in the uk each day than some 30 year old prop-taxi. Bit of a niche market in small heavily urbanised countries.
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you are all together complaining that you still don't find a job after 6 poorly months????????? Gosh i had to look for about almost 3 years before i had my first break, without paying for my type and i'm a +30 old ab-initio. Before that i was doing flightseeing tours which was really fun.
It amazes me more and more that people want straight to their 737 or A320 job without doing any effort. Bad attitude.
It amazes me more and more that people want straight to their 737 or A320 job without doing any effort. Bad attitude.
Wunderbra
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Flemish, why is it a bad attitude?
Why should people not go straight into jets?
Just because you had to do it "the hard way" doesn't mean that everyone should have to.
Some people are lucky, or work hard and get the right contacts. Some aren't so lucky. Why should the lucky ones feel guilty? Or indeed the unlucky ones feel bitter?
me fATPL ME/IR/MCC, 250 hours, finished MCC early November, had one interview and another one coming up shortly. Both regionals flying TP's.
Good luck to all those who are searching.
Why should people not go straight into jets?
Just because you had to do it "the hard way" doesn't mean that everyone should have to.
Some people are lucky, or work hard and get the right contacts. Some aren't so lucky. Why should the lucky ones feel guilty? Or indeed the unlucky ones feel bitter?
me fATPL ME/IR/MCC, 250 hours, finished MCC early November, had one interview and another one coming up shortly. Both regionals flying TP's.
Good luck to all those who are searching.
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Flemish, why is it a bad attitude?
Why should people not go straight into jets?
me fATPL ME/IR/MCC, 250 hours, finished MCC early November, had one interview and another one coming up shortly. Both regionals flying TP's.
Why should people not go straight into jets?
me fATPL ME/IR/MCC, 250 hours, finished MCC early November, had one interview and another one coming up shortly. Both regionals flying TP's.
The attitude is pretty childish.
Originally Posted by GrahamK123
And if id spent £80k on training id be aiming for the highest paying job id get rather than earning 400 a month instructing. Clearly you can afford to get a low paid job.
Good luck with the TP job too - shows me there are good jobs out there.
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For those that are low houred (i.e <400 hrs say) and went to a flying school that has links with possible commercial jobs (any type of job) then use them to help you get recommended. You've paid them enough money so use them.
If they can't help you or you went down the modular route and the usual application method isn't working then its because there are guys that are getting recommendations above you of have more flying experience than you.
Therefore you need to improve your cv by gaining more hours of flying experience.
Morally I don't agree with this but if I had the money I would pay for a type rating purley and simply because there are plenty of other pilots doing this getting one step ahead of you. If you can't afford to do a type rating having spent x thousands of pounds already then you really do need to increase your flying hours by one of many methods available to you in this country or indeed africa/europe.
Such as
Instructing (if you can afford the rating)
Aerial photography
Pilots assistant
Banner Towing
Pleasure Flights
Survey work.
etc etc.
You just have to look for these types of jobs to gain experiece and having done this type of job for a while you'll be surprised how quickly things will happen once you're in the industry. Before you know it you'll have the advantage over the low houred guys when it comes to applying for the bigger jobs such as TP operators or if you're lucky a big shiny jet!
You have to ask yourself the question:
Would I rather do any (I mean anything) flying job this year in 2008 as supposed to no/minimal flying while holding out for the national lottery win of a big shiny jet?
SO GO GET THAT SEP JOB NOW AND STOP WASTING TIME!
rgds
The Aviator1977
If they can't help you or you went down the modular route and the usual application method isn't working then its because there are guys that are getting recommendations above you of have more flying experience than you.
Therefore you need to improve your cv by gaining more hours of flying experience.
Morally I don't agree with this but if I had the money I would pay for a type rating purley and simply because there are plenty of other pilots doing this getting one step ahead of you. If you can't afford to do a type rating having spent x thousands of pounds already then you really do need to increase your flying hours by one of many methods available to you in this country or indeed africa/europe.
Such as
Instructing (if you can afford the rating)
Aerial photography
Pilots assistant
Banner Towing
Pleasure Flights
Survey work.
etc etc.
You just have to look for these types of jobs to gain experiece and having done this type of job for a while you'll be surprised how quickly things will happen once you're in the industry. Before you know it you'll have the advantage over the low houred guys when it comes to applying for the bigger jobs such as TP operators or if you're lucky a big shiny jet!
You have to ask yourself the question:
Would I rather do any (I mean anything) flying job this year in 2008 as supposed to no/minimal flying while holding out for the national lottery win of a big shiny jet?
SO GO GET THAT SEP JOB NOW AND STOP WASTING TIME!
rgds
The Aviator1977
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For gods sake
Alpha male - the voice of reason
Guys ask yourself this question.
Why do most air taxi companies need 700hours before letting you loose in a Seneca, yet you are all looking for a 737 job at 235 hours.
Personally I would rather excel at a job instead of just being able to tell the girls in nightclubs that i'm an "Airline Pilot"
at 235 hours in a 737 you are as much use as tits on a bull, kilo for kilo the training captains would probably rather have the fuel. I know many captains that hate flying with cadets. Trust me they would be more impressed with a good hand flown approach in a chieftain than a perfect CAT III autoland that you just monitored
Do an apprenticeship, build some PIC time, learn about flying and then earn it instead of paying for it. The only reason for the 200hour CPL is I think Poland - they wanted it from the JAA and got it, previously you needed 700hours for a CPL hence the 700 hours requirement from the UK CAA - think about it.
Many AOC operators can have a dispensation for 400 hours if you have some multi time, RAvenair at Liverpool have 400 hour guys counting ducks in the Liverpool Estuary in a partenvia and others collecting cheques from the Isle of Man in an Aztec, they all have to spend time in ops handling aircraft and filing flight plans before they get anywhere near a twin.
I'd rather hire one of these guys than some Ace with 235 hours with some pseudo 737 simtime who got an average 98% pass in the subjects just like every other "graduate"
Oh and PS Ravenair is owned by a well regarded Ex 757 driver who knows the score.
Anybody out there qualified without a job should look inward, its never been so good for pilots in 15 years - when the music stops make sure you have a seat......any seat.
Guys ask yourself this question.
Why do most air taxi companies need 700hours before letting you loose in a Seneca, yet you are all looking for a 737 job at 235 hours.
Personally I would rather excel at a job instead of just being able to tell the girls in nightclubs that i'm an "Airline Pilot"
at 235 hours in a 737 you are as much use as tits on a bull, kilo for kilo the training captains would probably rather have the fuel. I know many captains that hate flying with cadets. Trust me they would be more impressed with a good hand flown approach in a chieftain than a perfect CAT III autoland that you just monitored
Do an apprenticeship, build some PIC time, learn about flying and then earn it instead of paying for it. The only reason for the 200hour CPL is I think Poland - they wanted it from the JAA and got it, previously you needed 700hours for a CPL hence the 700 hours requirement from the UK CAA - think about it.
Many AOC operators can have a dispensation for 400 hours if you have some multi time, RAvenair at Liverpool have 400 hour guys counting ducks in the Liverpool Estuary in a partenvia and others collecting cheques from the Isle of Man in an Aztec, they all have to spend time in ops handling aircraft and filing flight plans before they get anywhere near a twin.
I'd rather hire one of these guys than some Ace with 235 hours with some pseudo 737 simtime who got an average 98% pass in the subjects just like every other "graduate"
Oh and PS Ravenair is owned by a well regarded Ex 757 driver who knows the score.
Anybody out there qualified without a job should look inward, its never been so good for pilots in 15 years - when the music stops make sure you have a seat......any seat.
Last edited by G-SPOTs Lost; 16th Jan 2008 at 19:56.
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72 cv's and applications i've sent in the last 12 months
On the same period, I wrote 450 CV & application letters .. that's a bit more than one per day .. not really time consuming.
I suggest you grab the last JP Airline or some Flight International listing all aircraft ops in the world .. You will probably find out there are more than 72
Sure, it's not easy for lowtimers, but still, those days are the best since years to find a pilot job ... Keep on writing letters and licking stamps !