Pilots!!!!
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If I wanted to move to the continent or the far corners of the world then your quite correct, I would need to be sending out more cv's. As it stands, I have no particular desire to move abroad and I have commitments that tie me to the UK. Little point in me sending 450 cv's then to the deapest darkers regions of the world! As a slight aside, I would rather send a lesser amount of cv's, with carefuly worded covering letters(tailored to each individual operator),than hundreds of 'I've got got a cpl, any jobs mate??' meaningless type letters. 
While GSPOT speaks some truth, I will never forget years ago flying with an F/O who was shortly to go through a command upgrade. As he was flying the sector I asked him how much fuel he would like, and he said that minimum plog fuel would be good as the weather at the destination was CAVOK. I then had to suggest to him that maybe he should also look at the TAF, which was becoming 400m in fog overcast below 100ft when we were due to be there, and possibly take a little more.
In his previous life prior to joining the airline he had flown single crew ops in a PA31 and and actually been a "training captain" on it - made me think a little.
I suspect that an F/O with 3000hrs all in airline flying would have made a better decision. In fact I would expect an F/O with 300hrs of airline flying would make a better decision - because they do every time I ask them.
This isn't saying that air taxi pilots are bad. Merely suggesting that being able to fly a good hand flown approach in a chieftan is going to impress everyone is a bit of an oversimplification. I used to be able to do that but it was a long time ago and I probably couldn't do it now - but I know plenty of pilots with 500hrs who can fly a good hand flown approach in a 737, and I find that far more impressive when i'm sitting next to them in it.
In his previous life prior to joining the airline he had flown single crew ops in a PA31 and and actually been a "training captain" on it - made me think a little.
I suspect that an F/O with 3000hrs all in airline flying would have made a better decision. In fact I would expect an F/O with 300hrs of airline flying would make a better decision - because they do every time I ask them.
This isn't saying that air taxi pilots are bad. Merely suggesting that being able to fly a good hand flown approach in a chieftan is going to impress everyone is a bit of an oversimplification. I used to be able to do that but it was a long time ago and I probably couldn't do it now - but I know plenty of pilots with 500hrs who can fly a good hand flown approach in a 737, and I find that far more impressive when i'm sitting next to them in it.
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just thought I would carry on the argument - if you get offered a job on something other than a big shiny jet for christs sake don't turn your nose up - becuase you will regret it!
Join Date: Dec 2005
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There was never an argument in the first place. The thread went way off track all because somebody somewhere suggested that the original few posters were only interested in finding a jet job which clearly wasnt the case.
Then everyone else jumped on the band wagon and whatever their motive, tried to add their tuppence worth. 
There was never any inference whatsoever that people werent intersted in ANY job so why not get the thread back on the rails it was supposed to be on!
So here go's our 'imaginary' pilot - lets call him Dave(everone knows a Dave!), Dave has 250 hours, a frozen atpl and has been applying for jobs for 6 months. He's intersted in ANY kind of job!
Next poster please!!
Then everyone else jumped on the band wagon and whatever their motive, tried to add their tuppence worth. There was never any inference whatsoever that people werent intersted in ANY job so why not get the thread back on the rails it was supposed to be on!So here go's our 'imaginary' pilot - lets call him Dave(everone knows a Dave!), Dave has 250 hours, a frozen atpl and has been applying for jobs for 6 months. He's intersted in ANY kind of job!
Next poster please!!
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job!!!
I thuoght I could post my road in this career.
Graduated from flight school 2005 with 300 hours total time.
Instructed for 12 months and build close to 1000 hours tt. Got a nother job flying cargo at night in Piper chieftan as captain. After a couple of months (8 months) working MY BUTT of for the company they bought a turbo prop and they typed me as a captain
.
YES I APPLIED TO EVERY AIRBUS AND BOEING OPERATOR OUT THERE WHEN I WAS A LOW TIMER TO GET TO FLY A SHINY JET,,,,BUT NO LUCK!!!!
Graduated from flight school 2005 with 300 hours total time.
Instructed for 12 months and build close to 1000 hours tt. Got a nother job flying cargo at night in Piper chieftan as captain. After a couple of months (8 months) working MY BUTT of for the company they bought a turbo prop and they typed me as a captain
. YES I APPLIED TO EVERY AIRBUS AND BOEING OPERATOR OUT THERE WHEN I WAS A LOW TIMER TO GET TO FLY A SHINY JET,,,,BUT NO LUCK!!!!
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Anonymus6: "YES I APPLIED TO EVERY AIRBUS AND BOEING OPERATOR OUT THERE WHEN I WAS A LOW TIMER TO GET TO FLY A SHINY JET,,,,BUT NO LUCK!!!! "
Don't bother, everyone did. Just try to be in the air and you will be fine!!
Life is full of surprises!!
good luck
Don't bother, everyone did. Just try to be in the air and you will be fine!!
Life is full of surprises!!
good luck
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Excrab
Indeed, we all have experiences of budding Chuck Yeagers and on the opposite end of the scale we have all flown with some people who needed telling more than twice.
I was deliberately talking more generally so as to encompass more people. There seems to be many out of work fATPL's on here (as you would expect on this forum) who would appear to be without work, when really at the moment everybody should be ably employed.
If your training department is turning out competent FO's on 737's at 500 hours with 250hours jet time then you are truly blessed and your training department perhaps should (sincerely) be a template for us all.
Perhaps if all the budding 737 drivers on here considered that for the next 1000 hours (Again generalising - there are always exceptions) you will be taking more out of the equation than putting into it,then setting aside the boeing or bust aspirations, they may consider the less glamorous route a little more.
In my corner of the industry (Corporate) you will not be considered for a Jet F/O job with less than 1000hrs - ideally some multi, Ideally some PIC, Ideally some OPS experience. The simple fact is that most fresh FATPL's could probably not file a flight plan and these people feel qualified to undertake 737 type training
There will always be exceptions of course, and for those determined to do it then full marks for determination.
Sorry but its another £0.02 (Thats 4p now)
Indeed, we all have experiences of budding Chuck Yeagers and on the opposite end of the scale we have all flown with some people who needed telling more than twice.
I was deliberately talking more generally so as to encompass more people. There seems to be many out of work fATPL's on here (as you would expect on this forum) who would appear to be without work, when really at the moment everybody should be ably employed.
If your training department is turning out competent FO's on 737's at 500 hours with 250hours jet time then you are truly blessed and your training department perhaps should (sincerely) be a template for us all.
Perhaps if all the budding 737 drivers on here considered that for the next 1000 hours (Again generalising - there are always exceptions) you will be taking more out of the equation than putting into it,then setting aside the boeing or bust aspirations, they may consider the less glamorous route a little more.
In my corner of the industry (Corporate) you will not be considered for a Jet F/O job with less than 1000hrs - ideally some multi, Ideally some PIC, Ideally some OPS experience. The simple fact is that most fresh FATPL's could probably not file a flight plan and these people feel qualified to undertake 737 type training
There will always be exceptions of course, and for those determined to do it then full marks for determination.
Sorry but its another £0.02 (Thats 4p now)
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In my corner of the industry (Corporate) you will not be considered for a Jet F/O job with less than 1000hrs - ideally some multi, Ideally some PIC, Ideally some OPS experience. The simple fact is that most fresh FATPL's could probably not file a flight plan and these people feel qualified to undertake 737 type training
This is all simply NIMBYism in another form.
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sorry to interrupt but have one question--would it be easier to get a job if you pay for TR+Line training(let's say 200hrs 737 or 320)????
Seriously, think twice before paying for working (doesn't it sound silly ? )
We have example of people paying for all the kit and getting ....nope
On the other side, some found a job on Airliners with no experience and no TR at all .
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fATPL, MECIR, NVFR 200TT 80PIC 20HN
Currently drilling holes to save $$ to be able to move north or east, subsequently haven't applied anywhere yet.
Worried about the pay up north-with the way rent is, I'd be paying to fly a 210 or similar, can't wait!!
Why shouldn't we think that we have a chance jumping straight into an airline when we meet their entry requirments?..
Sharp aviation
Qlink traineeship
Currently drilling holes to save $$ to be able to move north or east, subsequently haven't applied anywhere yet.
Worried about the pay up north-with the way rent is, I'd be paying to fly a 210 or similar, can't wait!!
Why shouldn't we think that we have a chance jumping straight into an airline when we meet their entry requirments?..
Sharp aviation
Qlink traineeship
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over 2000h tt, a320 rated, 10 months looking.
NOTHING except some "we will keep you informed...","please,fill our applicatios form" and the infamous "thanks for your application"...
they want hours(min1500h tt), lot of hours, and hours on eavy jet(min500h)...
NOTHING except some "we will keep you informed...","please,fill our applicatios form" and the infamous "thanks for your application"...
they want hours(min1500h tt), lot of hours, and hours on eavy jet(min500h)...
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Caudillo
Please explain how what I say could be construed as NIMBYism, I'm sorry I genuinely don't understand.
You dont have to go too far back to remember that the only people flying heavy jets at 200 odd hours were airline sponsored cadets from BA & Cathay and other sponsored, they all had chiseled jaws and were the rugby club captains and chief prefect at boarding school, mostly had parents who had senior positions within the companies.
WADR to these people they were subject to the same stringent aptitude tests as RAF officer training and had multiple interviews followed by psych tests, they completed their IR's and were in the simulator the following Monday morning. There were maybe 50-60 graduates per year, in some years if the airlines weren't doing quite so well they had to join the aircraft as cabin crew
It is only in the last 5 years or so in the 50-60 years of jet transport as we know it that we have the "200 Hour" CPL, it is a new concept, unproven.
The point that you make about being qualified to undertake heavy jet training is misguided and misunderstood, you are able and entitled to take/pay for a boeing bus rating but qualified - I dont think so.
You might now argue that why aren't 73's and 320's aren't falling out of the sky. Well training departments have adapted, in fairness aircraft have evolved whereby less emphasis is made on stick and rudder skills and more upon automatics and systems management.
Most training departments are in meltdown, TRE's Salaries have never been in as much demand or have been paid so much. Line trainers are not Line training anymore the salry uplift is not worth the hassle
You only have to look upon the last weeks events at LHR to see that really when all is well, these aircraft can be flown well with pilots of limited experience. It is when the **** hits the fan that the experience shows and saves the day (as at Heathrow).
My personal opinion is that the 200hour CPL is a backward step, the old 200 hr BCPL.....700 hr CPL.... 750 hr CPL/IR process was a little more organic and produced a more rounded flying individual with more situational awareness and basic flying skill through experience than the "product" we get now.
Can doesnt mean should, and able doesnt mean ready, is what I'm trying to say
Please don't flame me for having an opinion, you no doubt have yours and I respect that.
The RHS of that Kingair or Instructor rating is not a good investment in terms of money but for those freshly qualified with time on their hands I'm merely suggetsing dont be in such a rush and consider the alternatives.
Best of luck
Please explain how what I say could be construed as NIMBYism, I'm sorry I genuinely don't understand.
You dont have to go too far back to remember that the only people flying heavy jets at 200 odd hours were airline sponsored cadets from BA & Cathay and other sponsored, they all had chiseled jaws and were the rugby club captains and chief prefect at boarding school, mostly had parents who had senior positions within the companies.
WADR to these people they were subject to the same stringent aptitude tests as RAF officer training and had multiple interviews followed by psych tests, they completed their IR's and were in the simulator the following Monday morning. There were maybe 50-60 graduates per year, in some years if the airlines weren't doing quite so well they had to join the aircraft as cabin crew
It is only in the last 5 years or so in the 50-60 years of jet transport as we know it that we have the "200 Hour" CPL, it is a new concept, unproven.
The point that you make about being qualified to undertake heavy jet training is misguided and misunderstood, you are able and entitled to take/pay for a boeing bus rating but qualified - I dont think so.
You might now argue that why aren't 73's and 320's aren't falling out of the sky. Well training departments have adapted, in fairness aircraft have evolved whereby less emphasis is made on stick and rudder skills and more upon automatics and systems management.
Most training departments are in meltdown, TRE's Salaries have never been in as much demand or have been paid so much. Line trainers are not Line training anymore the salry uplift is not worth the hassle
You only have to look upon the last weeks events at LHR to see that really when all is well, these aircraft can be flown well with pilots of limited experience. It is when the **** hits the fan that the experience shows and saves the day (as at Heathrow).
My personal opinion is that the 200hour CPL is a backward step, the old 200 hr BCPL.....700 hr CPL.... 750 hr CPL/IR process was a little more organic and produced a more rounded flying individual with more situational awareness and basic flying skill through experience than the "product" we get now.
Can doesnt mean should, and able doesnt mean ready, is what I'm trying to say
Please don't flame me for having an opinion, you no doubt have yours and I respect that.
The RHS of that Kingair or Instructor rating is not a good investment in terms of money but for those freshly qualified with time on their hands I'm merely suggetsing dont be in such a rush and consider the alternatives.
Best of luck
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Can doesnt mean should, and able doesnt mean ready, is what I'm trying to say
I was thinking the same thing when reading the paper about the FO who got the 777 on the ground. I asked myself "I wonder if the kids with 200hrs and a fATPL could have done the same?" I think the FO had 10 years of flying experience.
