Cae Amsterdam A Failure
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Cae Amsterdam A Failure
Hello everyone, was planning of starting with Ryanair this month but i have doubts, 4 of my friends have just failed there LST and CAE Amsterdam, if any people are at Amsterdam please can you give us some feed back, I believe the Instructors are Ex KLM and teaching the KLM Route not Ryanair and a lot of discrepancies in the teaching method for the newly arrived Instructors..Would be nice to hear from guys that are there right now..Anyfeed back is appreciated, I have canceled my training slot.
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Maybe they failed it because they weren't good enough or didn't work hard enough?
During my short time involved in the aviation business Ive come across a lot of people who would rather blame failure on their training or instructors, rather than admit any deficiencies in their own ability level/ attitude.
During my short time involved in the aviation business Ive come across a lot of people who would rather blame failure on their training or instructors, rather than admit any deficiencies in their own ability level/ attitude.
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The LST follows a specific pattern, and the failures, emergencies and non-normals will be pretty easy to guess in advance. i.e. you will be doing a SE go-around at DH etc.
The fact of the matter is that a TR is hard if it is your first jet TR, and the time spent in the FFS is so short and there is so much to cover that people find themselves in the LST after 4-6 sessions and easily get overloaded. It may also be likely that the xmas period had breaks and/or multiple instructors which does not aid the learning process.
The KLM instructors are most likely to be very experienced, and if they are not confident in your ability, then they will fail you. After all, peoples lives would be put at risk if you are released to continue your training.
I would be most surprised if further training is not allowed/accepted.
The fact of the matter is that a TR is hard if it is your first jet TR, and the time spent in the FFS is so short and there is so much to cover that people find themselves in the LST after 4-6 sessions and easily get overloaded. It may also be likely that the xmas period had breaks and/or multiple instructors which does not aid the learning process.
The KLM instructors are most likely to be very experienced, and if they are not confident in your ability, then they will fail you. After all, peoples lives would be put at risk if you are released to continue your training.
I would be most surprised if further training is not allowed/accepted.
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Quite a few people I know were trained by one company and then tested by another airline for the LST. The basic handling and operation of the aircraft in emergencies is virtually the same. The main difference was in SOPs but with enough effort its not impossible to get your head around them on your own. Don't expect to go out on the lash every evening during the TR, you need to get your head down and learn your stuff. I remember being 2 sessions into my TR and crapping myself because I only had another 5 sessions left before the LST but it should all come togerhter. Then again did any of these people who failed in AMS have a history of needing extra training for CPL / IR / even PPL...?
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Hello Everyone, Just heard from the dogs mouth at Amsterdam that 9 people had failed all in a row and 2 people partialled, now is the a training problem or what???..How can 9 people fail all in a course of 7 days i would definatley suspect some problem in the Training..I hope the Management at Amsterdam is seriously looking into this..
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Would not blame the training as this is straight forward and CAE have been doing it on RYR SOP's for years. CAE is probably having a harder time to select the right material to begin with, a sign of it becoming more difficult to find self sponsoring students of a certain grade. Not nice for the students involved as it was their money instead of an airlines 
(as this is a rumour network: did the same TRE take all exams?
)
(as this is a rumour network: did the same TRE take all exams?
)
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Was pre type-rating selection assessments conducted and by whom?
Guys might complain about the cost of a pre selection assessment but it is cheaper than failing an SSTR.
If pre selection assessments were conducted then those need to be called into question and if they weren't conducted then why not?
Guys might complain about the cost of a pre selection assessment but it is cheaper than failing an SSTR.
If pre selection assessments were conducted then those need to be called into question and if they weren't conducted then why not?
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If these guys/girls are Ryanair then yes, they did a selection done by Ryanair in a Ryanair sim out of EMA.
Bit worrying to hear the TRTO is not following the company SOP's!
Bit worrying to hear the TRTO is not following the company SOP's!
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Yes I believe its correct that they where all pre selected and assessments done at EMA Im getting worried that CAE is not looking into it,Ive been told this morning another 2 failed yesterday and its not all bye the same TRE..I tried to call amsterdam this morning to get someone to talk to me but unfortunately the person i need to speak to is not available.Poor guys that have failed have to pay another 4400 Euros for a 2 sim session what a rip off, sounds to me that CAE are trying to make up losses.
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during my type rating at CAE, an instructor/examiner told me that some students need really to learn to fly a plane, and that was the hardest thing for them to teach when the ABC of aviation training was still not taught.
He told me that CRM (my weakest point !) is much easier to teach than teaching to fly a plane in one of these big simulators.Spending some time in a small cessna with strong X-wind condition is not so bad after all !!!
He told me that CRM (my weakest point !) is much easier to teach than teaching to fly a plane in one of these big simulators.Spending some time in a small cessna with strong X-wind condition is not so bad after all !!!
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my 2 cents worth, stay well away from CAE AMS and go to SAS! They do not have enough RYR instructors and so SOP's change on a day to day basis depending on which company your instructor used to fly for.
I'm not one of those who requires a retake but one of those who has a schedule that lasts for 10weeks instead of the 6 they claim and pissed off at the fact that scheduling are under the illussion that "its not a race", fair point but they also think it is ok for those to start 2 weeks after to finish before you! nice to see its my money they are spending!!!!
oh and i do not have any remedials to take so i think what you'll find is that inconsistency in training and having gaps during crucial points is what is letting people down!!
I'm not one of those who requires a retake but one of those who has a schedule that lasts for 10weeks instead of the 6 they claim and pissed off at the fact that scheduling are under the illussion that "its not a race", fair point but they also think it is ok for those to start 2 weeks after to finish before you! nice to see its my money they are spending!!!!
oh and i do not have any remedials to take so i think what you'll find is that inconsistency in training and having gaps during crucial points is what is letting people down!!
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Well at my time at CAE out of 12 1 was dropped early on and 1 failed/1 partialled. Both passed 2nd time with the other 9 of us including me passing 1st time. It may appear things have somewhat changed either at CAE or persons not quite up to speed are getting through selection. Although i do agree something on this matter needs to be sorted/investigated.
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Ryanair Pulling Out Of Cae Amsterdam !!!
Please Can Anyone Confirm This Is Correct That Ryanair Are Pulling Out Of Cae Amsterdam,there Has Been Alot Of Problems Over The Last Few Months And They Are Moving Operations To Ema..please Can Anyone Confirm?..
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I have done some training with CAE AMS, and I can only say positive things about them.
I have however noticed that RYR has taking some quite low standard lowtimers recently, so I honestly don't think you can blame CAE. I think RYR is struggling to find the right people, which is reflected in the training results.
I don't think it's as difficult to get accepted for the SSTR scheme, as it used to be. I know a few who got through, and I'm frightened by the thought that they are F/O's on a 737!!
One guy was 4-5 years before he maneged to complete his Integrated course, after which he did a ATR rating, and despite the fact that they normally get hired straight after the training with this ATR operator, he some how didn't. So he decided to do the RYR SSTR, and was accepted. Also know another quite scary story, but I better stop now he he.
Not saying that the pilots who failed are rubbish at there profession, but I do believe that the standard of RYR cadets has been lowered quite significant over the last two years.
This combined with lack of instructors, and instructors who are not used to train very inexperienced pilots, may be the cause of the failures.
/BAP
I have however noticed that RYR has taking some quite low standard lowtimers recently, so I honestly don't think you can blame CAE. I think RYR is struggling to find the right people, which is reflected in the training results.
I don't think it's as difficult to get accepted for the SSTR scheme, as it used to be. I know a few who got through, and I'm frightened by the thought that they are F/O's on a 737!!
One guy was 4-5 years before he maneged to complete his Integrated course, after which he did a ATR rating, and despite the fact that they normally get hired straight after the training with this ATR operator, he some how didn't. So he decided to do the RYR SSTR, and was accepted. Also know another quite scary story, but I better stop now he he.
Not saying that the pilots who failed are rubbish at there profession, but I do believe that the standard of RYR cadets has been lowered quite significant over the last two years.
This combined with lack of instructors, and instructors who are not used to train very inexperienced pilots, may be the cause of the failures.
/BAP
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Its a funny world, i knew this guy who bought a SSTR on the 737 after flight school,but couldnt manage to get a job, despite many of his colleagues being successful in finding jobs a that very time. I guess it all came down to his personality, he had a rep of being very selfish and rude to other people during his time in basic flying school. Apparently he has not changed one bit, but
fly around for a certain british carrier now(glad im not there flying with him)
Back to the subject, RYR doesnt accept everybody onto the TR and I know that for a fact, because i did the RYR MCC and out of four, only one got accepted. A lot of people fail the sim check or the interview, but if you pass people tend to think that they already have right hand seat secured. I did the TR a CAE and found the training excellent but yes some guys simply gave up or others was shown the door, HOWEVER this has nothing to do with ryanair or CAE for that matter, but a few people didnt work quite hard enough or just wasnt prepared for the sheer volume of work that comes with doing a type in 6 weeks. You can say a lot about RYR but once on line you will find out of how many excellent guys and girls are out there with you on the line and that together with some seriously challenging work and airport names and codes you have never even heard of, makes it a brilliant place to start a career.
fly around for a certain british carrier now(glad im not there flying with him)
Back to the subject, RYR doesnt accept everybody onto the TR and I know that for a fact, because i did the RYR MCC and out of four, only one got accepted. A lot of people fail the sim check or the interview, but if you pass people tend to think that they already have right hand seat secured. I did the TR a CAE and found the training excellent but yes some guys simply gave up or others was shown the door, HOWEVER this has nothing to do with ryanair or CAE for that matter, but a few people didnt work quite hard enough or just wasnt prepared for the sheer volume of work that comes with doing a type in 6 weeks. You can say a lot about RYR but once on line you will find out of how many excellent guys and girls are out there with you on the line and that together with some seriously challenging work and airport names and codes you have never even heard of, makes it a brilliant place to start a career.
Last edited by vikingdk; 8th Jan 2008 at 19:23.
