Global Association of Trainee Pilots: Recruiting Here!
Join Date: Dec 2006
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I'm not entirely sure but I believe all finnish airlines will pay for your TR. However, you need to pay the TR back if you leave the company in 2-3 years(depends on company... also the money to be payed back decreases every month until 0e). Sounds fair enough.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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So what happens when everbody gets a type rating as standard.
We are back to where we started before that first person bought a job.....we would all have the rating and we would all have spent more money getting it. For what. To get the job.
So the next thing is the airlines want experience and start letting you pay them to fly. So you go and pay them £10,000 for 100hrs line training.
WHERE does it stop......Airline Pilot are just part timers that pay to fly for fun.
Type ratings are not the way forward, thats one thing I do know.
As a Captain I know who I'd rather have sat next to me in the cockpit.
We are back to where we started before that first person bought a job.....we would all have the rating and we would all have spent more money getting it. For what. To get the job.
So the next thing is the airlines want experience and start letting you pay them to fly. So you go and pay them £10,000 for 100hrs line training.
WHERE does it stop......Airline Pilot are just part timers that pay to fly for fun.
Type ratings are not the way forward, thats one thing I do know.
As a Captain I know who I'd rather have sat next to me in the cockpit.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Deepest Europe...
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Originally Posted by Baboon Boy
You are in my opinion a disgrace to your profession for allowing yourself to be taken for a ride so badly, and if your true identity ever be known the GAPT shall ensure that you fall foul of article 6 of the constitution! You may feel very pleased with yourself that you are about to jump the queue and buy yourself a job, but when you are ostricised from your profession, well we'll see.
I also return to a point I made earlier on - how will you ever know who to name and shame? If they remain anonymous in forums like this and aren't obliged to tell you when at work where and how they trained, you're going to struggle.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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You are in my opinion a disgrace to your profession for allowing yourself to be taken for a ride so badly, and if your true identity ever be known the GAPT shall ensure that you fall foul of article 6 of the constitution! You may feel very pleased with yourself that you are about to jump the queue and buy yourself a job, but when you are ostricised from your profession, well we'll see.
But what if his dad is bigger than your dad?
The idea you are trying to work with here is good in principle, but such farcical 'threats' merely serve to make you sound like a small child who has kicked the toys out of his pram in a huff. I imagine that is not the impression you want to create when trying to garner support for your cause...
Join Date: Jul 2006
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BB,
I am quaking in my boots, I really think I'm done for.
From your post Baboon boy, calling me a disgrace, good luck with the job hunt!
I was all for your post and agreed with it, but I spelt out my options and my own situation. Now I just see someone who has a bitter pill to swallow, with rather a blinkered and immature view on life. Let's debate in a grown up manner, yes?
By the way how did you pay for your training? Surely that's immoral too. Does someone who gets a loan to start a business in order to get a job to pay bills also fall foul of your views. Really there is not much difference.
Unions only antagonise airlines, and already working in the industry with union driven directives at its core, I'd say that it doesn't help much. Are you against ambition too per chance? Maybe we should all be equal but some more equal than others. Believe me I DO NOT THINK PAYING FOR A TYPE RATING IS A NICE THING TO DO, NOR IS IT RIGHT BUT YOU HAVE TO REMAIN COMPETITIVE OTHERWISE YOU GO NOWHERE!!!!!!!!
And do I vote Tory, that's my business?!!!
Don't shoot me, I'm just doing what everyone else seems to be doing at the moment and getting jobs soon after. It'll change this time next year again, be sure of that. The vast majority of people are now, at this present time paying for an initial type rating. There are TR organisations that are sharks, but some which do help in finding a job, which is where I'm going unless someone offers me something in the meantime, I shall not post anymore on this thread as it's turning into a lynch mob which i want no part of!
I am quaking in my boots, I really think I'm done for.
From your post Baboon boy, calling me a disgrace, good luck with the job hunt!
I was all for your post and agreed with it, but I spelt out my options and my own situation. Now I just see someone who has a bitter pill to swallow, with rather a blinkered and immature view on life. Let's debate in a grown up manner, yes?
By the way how did you pay for your training? Surely that's immoral too. Does someone who gets a loan to start a business in order to get a job to pay bills also fall foul of your views. Really there is not much difference.
Unions only antagonise airlines, and already working in the industry with union driven directives at its core, I'd say that it doesn't help much. Are you against ambition too per chance? Maybe we should all be equal but some more equal than others. Believe me I DO NOT THINK PAYING FOR A TYPE RATING IS A NICE THING TO DO, NOR IS IT RIGHT BUT YOU HAVE TO REMAIN COMPETITIVE OTHERWISE YOU GO NOWHERE!!!!!!!!
And do I vote Tory, that's my business?!!!
Don't shoot me, I'm just doing what everyone else seems to be doing at the moment and getting jobs soon after. It'll change this time next year again, be sure of that. The vast majority of people are now, at this present time paying for an initial type rating. There are TR organisations that are sharks, but some which do help in finding a job, which is where I'm going unless someone offers me something in the meantime, I shall not post anymore on this thread as it's turning into a lynch mob which i want no part of!
Last edited by SinBin; 29th Jan 2007 at 22:38.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Hmmm ...
... I do like the idea proposed, in theory. At the very least, some informal organisation could be set up as a support network where impartial advice could be received. But I can't see it being ground breaking in terms of TRs, for example. There just isn't the money around these days!
However ... if membership was paid for, or donations recieved, the organisation could pay for a TR to a disadvantaged member in the form of a scholarship? That's one example, anyway.
PS BB, it's a good idea, but that's about all! People are trying to point out the faults before you get too carried away, don't take it too personally mate.
... I do like the idea proposed, in theory. At the very least, some informal organisation could be set up as a support network where impartial advice could be received. But I can't see it being ground breaking in terms of TRs, for example. There just isn't the money around these days!
However ... if membership was paid for, or donations recieved, the organisation could pay for a TR to a disadvantaged member in the form of a scholarship? That's one example, anyway.
PS BB, it's a good idea, but that's about all! People are trying to point out the faults before you get too carried away, don't take it too personally mate.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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As if I'm serious with my threats to sin bin! The idea of me tracking him down and ruining his career is ludicrous. Come on people, can you not see a bit of banter when its put in front of you? Mind you, do not underestimate the influence of the GATP.
SinBin, you have been warned, plus the political party you vote for are responsible for numerous abominations in recent British history which contiue to affect our lives 10 years after they were last in power. Also you say you are not rich because you live in a 2 bed house. You do however say you earn over 40k per year. This puts you way above the average income in the uk, and coupled with the fact that the morgtgage payment on your 2 bed house will be fairly low (unless you pay a premium to live in a "desirable are", which wouldnt surprise me), you are my friend a rich man.
I have no bitter pill to swallow and have no jeleaousy towards those who can afford to buy a type rating. If I subsequently end up in a situation such as SinBin's where I am reduced to the stage where buying a TR represents my best overall option then I might be forced to do the same, whilst being violently sick and with the word mug written across my forehead.
Whilst everyone would love to stay true to their ideals, the fact remains that I would think very carefully about deliberately putting my aviation career at a disadvantage through doing so. Id imagine every wannabe bar none is against the idea of paying for TRs, but they do so for the reasons stated above.
The point I am trying to make is that absolutely no pilot should find themselves in such a situation, and the fact that they do could be remedied through radical action, such as that proposed by the GATP. If only enough of us could work together.
It may be the case that the GATP cannot win the battle against self sponsored type ratings for the time being, however I certainly think a difference can be made with respect to pilots paying for their own line training, and with respects to the issue of expenses and salaries whilst training. (eg Ryan Air)
Furthermore, a wannabes union could have many different functions, from providing adive with respect to training ssues and disputes, to providing grants or cheap loans to fund the training of worthy candidates.
The fact that we are not yet professional employees should not make a difference to the effectiveness of such an organisation, look at what university students have achieved over the years through the National Union of Students.
Lets face it people, at the moment we have absoultely no representation as a group, and are as a result getting completely shafted. I am seriously intending to look into the idea when I have time and would appreciate it if anyone else who is interested in playing a part get in touch via PM.
As the great Bob Marley once sang:
"It takes a revolution, to find a solution"
THE GATP WILL PREVAIL
SinBin, you have been warned, plus the political party you vote for are responsible for numerous abominations in recent British history which contiue to affect our lives 10 years after they were last in power. Also you say you are not rich because you live in a 2 bed house. You do however say you earn over 40k per year. This puts you way above the average income in the uk, and coupled with the fact that the morgtgage payment on your 2 bed house will be fairly low (unless you pay a premium to live in a "desirable are", which wouldnt surprise me), you are my friend a rich man.
I have no bitter pill to swallow and have no jeleaousy towards those who can afford to buy a type rating. If I subsequently end up in a situation such as SinBin's where I am reduced to the stage where buying a TR represents my best overall option then I might be forced to do the same, whilst being violently sick and with the word mug written across my forehead.
Whilst everyone would love to stay true to their ideals, the fact remains that I would think very carefully about deliberately putting my aviation career at a disadvantage through doing so. Id imagine every wannabe bar none is against the idea of paying for TRs, but they do so for the reasons stated above.
The point I am trying to make is that absolutely no pilot should find themselves in such a situation, and the fact that they do could be remedied through radical action, such as that proposed by the GATP. If only enough of us could work together.
It may be the case that the GATP cannot win the battle against self sponsored type ratings for the time being, however I certainly think a difference can be made with respect to pilots paying for their own line training, and with respects to the issue of expenses and salaries whilst training. (eg Ryan Air)
Furthermore, a wannabes union could have many different functions, from providing adive with respect to training ssues and disputes, to providing grants or cheap loans to fund the training of worthy candidates.
The fact that we are not yet professional employees should not make a difference to the effectiveness of such an organisation, look at what university students have achieved over the years through the National Union of Students.
Lets face it people, at the moment we have absoultely no representation as a group, and are as a result getting completely shafted. I am seriously intending to look into the idea when I have time and would appreciate it if anyone else who is interested in playing a part get in touch via PM.
As the great Bob Marley once sang:
"It takes a revolution, to find a solution"
THE GATP WILL PREVAIL
Last edited by Baboon Boy; 29th Jan 2007 at 22:58. Reason: wanted to give sin bin a bit more stick (sorry mate)
Join Date: Jul 2006
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A wind up is not going to help your cause much.
The airlines get you to pay for a type rating one way or another, even the big fellas (bonding/reduced salary or SSTR as mentioned earlier). This isn't going to stop until people have less cash and borrowing potential and the only thing that will do that is a property crash and interest rates going through the roof. When that happens nobody will be able to afford the anything and pilot training will reduce massively, resulting in a lack of new pilots. This ain't gonna happen for a few years yet.
The airlines get you to pay for a type rating one way or another, even the big fellas (bonding/reduced salary or SSTR as mentioned earlier). This isn't going to stop until people have less cash and borrowing potential and the only thing that will do that is a property crash and interest rates going through the roof. When that happens nobody will be able to afford the anything and pilot training will reduce massively, resulting in a lack of new pilots. This ain't gonna happen for a few years yet.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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This is a tired argument indeed. I completed my training in 1997 at a CAP509 school and over half my classmates were BA cadets. I remember having many conversations with them where they explained to me that by paying for my fATPL training I was ruining the industry and stopping people who deserved to fly from getting sponsorships. Ten years on and now you guys are saying the same about TRs. Don’t you see it’s all the damn same? The day you paid for your first lesson in an aircraft was the day you said “Airlines don’t need to pay for pilot training”, where you draw to line and say “I will pay for no more” is down to personal opinion and personal wealth (debt). As time has proven people will continue to pay to get into this industry and airlines will continue to exploit this with worsening Ts & Cs. Forget the TR debate and ask yourself why are there so many commercial pilots out there when training is so amazingly expensive, pilots are overworked and underpaid and it’s obvious there aren’t enough jobs? Find out who/what is to blame (Flight training establishments?) and go after them, not the average pilot who is desperately following the only/last route available to them!
