TheBeak

And still people want to sign up!

Gavin, if you are remotely doubting your ability to pass a simple maths test then don't even bother. End of.

I have no idea but I would say almost certainly no and why would you want to? Practice? Is it a case of one way or another, regardless of what the tests and people tell you, you are GOING to add to the HUGE pool of unemployed CPL/IR holders out there? Yeah why not, it's only you mum and dads home!

Sorry if it seems harsh. It'll be easy stuff like multiply 17 and 23. Subtract 126543 from 64325634 etc. If you can't do it, well, as Darwin said, only the strong survive. Don't resist nature.

kwb911

Gavin,
If you have a read on this thread there is a lot of info on the selection day but a brief introduction is as follows:
Note: I completed the selection process over a year ago and I believe its changed since with selection now completed at Dibden as far as I am aware. Also I believe stage 4 has been dropped from info I have read on this thread.
Basically you turn up and get a presentation about CTC before being split into two groups. One group completes the pilapt tests and maths test while the other starts the team building exercise etc. When each group has completed the tests etc you swap over. This will take up to lunchtime and the results are processed during lunch. The group that has passed will have candidates called forward for stage 3 interview and the guys that don’t get through will have a quick exit interview. If you past the interview in the afternoon you used to get called for stage 4, a sim ride at Nursling but I believe this has now stopped.
Hope this helps.

golfcharlie232

Gavin53, don't listen to the stupid comment above. Don't even bother read anything that starts with "TheBeak".

If you fail the maths test, yes you do continue. If you happen to fail one the morning tests (maths, pilapt, group exercises), then you can't go to the interview. They will bring you with the results around 1:30p, slipt you into two groups, one will stay, one will leave.

The maths test and the pilapt are part of the same computer-based test.
Contrary to what TheBeak says, it's not that easy. Reason is, you have to complete 15 questions in 15 minutes, and some take more than 1 min to complete (long divisions, cube roots, conversions ...). However, with a little training, it shouldn't be too difficult. Be quick, think fast, and don't take your time.
The pilapt is a lot harder, and for that one I urge you to take your time between two different tests. Be sure to know exactly what to do before you press Start.
Besides, the numerical keyboard is reversed ...

Good luck !

kwb911

My comment or the one above?

TheBeak

No kwb911, that was for me, and I am touched that you didn't assume it was me thus implying you didn't think my point was stupid. So, you're on your own golfcharlie232......at least for the moment......

Yeah golfcharlie232 is right, the industry is great, the maths is REALLY hard, CTC are placing everyone, they barely have any hold pool as well. There wont be in excess of 200 people by Christmas. The airlines will definately want loads of people next year, there is no risk to securing the debt on your parents home and buying a TR is great idea and you wont ever regret it.


That really depends on whether you wanted to be a pilot from the age of 3 and decided to work towards it all your life, study maths and gain a solid grasp of it OR you did media studies, general studies and art at school and decided 'I don't like working much and I think flying would be like going on holiday all the time so I think I'll do that' at the age of 17-22. I am sorry but there is nothing difficult about the maths, there are simple RULES to apply and there is a definate answer. If you couldn't be bothered to exercise your mind and learn THE RULES (especially at this level) then that says alot about you and your potential as a pilot.


Gavin as I said I was not trying to be rude, just truthful. The maths and the 'selection' is barely a bread crumb relative to the hurdles ahead of you if you choose to embark on training.

Good luck to you Gavin.

golfcharlie232

I failed the pilapt, but unlike you I talk about what I know and I shut my mouth on things I don't.
So yeah, about the maths test, it is NOT about applying rules. How can you talk about something you haven't a clue of what it is about ????
You will pass the maths test if you're able to find a quicker way to solve the problems other than directly apply rules. It is all about logic.
However, I do agree it is fairly easy, and I don't think a lot of people fail at this stage of selection.

GBB

TheBeak,

Dont even bother trying to explain them how things are in the REAL WORLD. Most of them are just kids... or they just like to act like one.
The wouldnt listen to their parents, so Im sure they wont listen to you.

TheBeak

So to conclude the maths test is NOT that easy but IS fairly easy. And you've had it from the horses mouth that KNOWS!

huh? The fundamentals of rule based maths.

FACT: Maths is about applying rules. That's all there is to it......apart, in a way, from Mathematical proof - that comes down to reasoning. I very much doubt you had 15 proofs!

Cheers GBB, I know. Some people NEED to find out the hard way I suppose.

golfcharlie232

Do you know any method to calculate cube roots ? I suppose you don't, and I don't either. The sense of logic (and this is not a "rule") would be to pick one of the 3 possible answers, not the highest nor the smallest one, you multiply it by itself 3 times, if you get the correct number then that's great, if you get something smaller then there's no need to make any more calculations, you just select the highest answer, and vice-versa.
I call it "logic", not "applying rules" ...

R T Jones

When I went through selection just over 2 years ago I failed the maths test first time, went away did lots of practise on the stuff I couldn't do and fluked 15 out of 15. It's not that difficult so don't stress about it to much.
As much as I dislike reading TheBeak's comments, a fair amount of it is true, the reality is harsh at the moment. No movement in the hold pool expected until possibly the end of the year. Even then nothing has been announced, at the moment I am counting my lucky stars that my loan is unsecured and that the interest rate has dropped from 8.8% to around 3%. The recession isn't all bad then!

Gavin53

This is brilliant! ha!

Such a simple question and no need for any of this faff!
Higher math went well so test should be relatively straightforward, therefore Beak, absolutely no need for you to have gone jumping to your own conclusions on others abilities, no need!!
All I need is more depth into the layout of the day. Nout more in the way of hurdles in the future, I'm aware of them!
Put my mum and dads home at risk, certainly not, so why again jump to your own conclusions?

GBB:
How would you know? you don't. piss off.

Some good points above also, thanks.

Ollie23

Learn the first 10 cube numbers, thats what i did, worked fine. Also learn the times tables inside out that helps with speed. Conversions etc all very easy. This has been discussed on this thread many many times, if people just read through and stopped asking the same questions over and over maybe this thread wouldn't be 170 pages long!

As you probably gathered the maths test should be the least of your worries, if you fancy swapping places with me I'd be happy. As enjoyable as the couse is i'd sooner be out of debt and watching from the sidelines for a few years.

99jolegg

Contrary to a self-appointed omniscient further above, the maths can catch you out no matter who you are, what you have done or what you have studied previously. People with engineering / science degrees from a good red-brick uni who have failed the maths test because they didn't do much prep for it as they regarded themselves as having a solid mathematical background! Some basic practice with pen and paper is all that is required to get your brain up to speed with doing mental arithmetic again. It used to be that you could fail the maths test first time and re-do it at a later stage...now they have scrapped phase 4 and combined phases 2 and 3, when else can you re-do the maths, if at all? As for the rest...it's been done to death every time a new post appears on this thread - unfortunately, we (collectively) have to put up with it until he deems it suitable for us to continue our training plans again...

air_wolf

GBB & TheBeak

Your patronising comments are starting to annoy people. You are obviously under the impression that your posts are both witty and insightful.

They aren't.

TTango

No need for that whatsoever Beak. Although you often make some blunt but reasonable points, comments like this aren't helpful in the slightest.

TheBeak

Justify that statement with examples please. How is that obvious? I am just giving my opinion.

Don't assume others opinions.

Your patronising statement could annoy me too, if I had a chip on my shoulder too. Settle down ground wolf.

TTango, to me it was necessary, a little maths test is a drop in the pond relative to what lies ahead. As is the interview, the pilapt and whatever else you may have to do to be JUSTIFIABLY selected.

To be blunt means to be devoid of any disguise or adornment i.e. HONEST. That's exactly what is needed, not sugar coating, lies or being told what you want to hear. I am offering my opinions and advice with the best of intentions.

To summarise Ttango I think it is helpful, it might help put things into perspective.

jb5000

Let's cut to the chase.

The REAL selection process.

Can you afford 75k without an unsecured loan?

You can?

Congratulations! When can you start?

TheBeak

Exactly, and, how gullible are you?

TTango

Yes, as I said, you often offer blunt but reasonable points, which I don't think is a bad thing.

What I disagree with you about is telling someone not to bother going to selection because they are apprehensive about the maths test. It's quite natural for people to be nervous about certain parts of selection depending on their strengths and weaknesses.

Telling people not to bother with selection because of the current state of the industry is a completely different kettle of fish...

TheBeak

Ok what I meant was, if you don't feel confident, don't go just yet. I maintain that this level of maths is essential, not difficult and not something to worry about. If you don't think you can do it, don't think about becoming a pilot. Anyone with any kind of long standing desire to be a pilot knows that basic maths is a necessary tool to the trade and has worked at it, despite not being a 'natural' (and I know many). If you have any worry with regards to it, go away and come back when you don't. That might explain why some seem so frivilous about £100K of debt - they don't understand quantitive facts. Failing a maths test, such as this, by a couple of marks is no big deal, it can happen, and I am sure they will let you take it again if everything else is up to the standard. On that basis, no need to worry. I'd think much further ahead than the maths test if I were you (Not you Ttango).

Exactly, if you have a brain and listen to sound advice form most on this site then leave it all together for the moment - not forever, but certainly for the next couple of years.