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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

Old 1st Feb 2016, 15:08
  #4641 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: England
Posts: 4
See you then! You travelling up the night before?
PilotMob is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2016, 09:15
  #4642 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Worcester
Posts: 6
I'm still booked in for the 23rd Feb and looking forward to it!


Time to brush up on....well, everything
JonH690 is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2016, 16:39
  #4643 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Hertfordshire
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Hi,

I recently went for a selection day for one of the airlines and have been thankfully told I passed the day and interview but have to wait to hear if i have been shortlisted for the actual airline scheme, if i was accepted on the scheme I would definitely do it but i have also been told if unsuccessful i meet the standards for the White Tail scheme and can go on that unaligned to an airline.

If i was to do that the financial risk is obviously higher as i may not get a job at the end, i wondered what everyones thoughts were about the white tail scheme and typically these days if people ascertain jobs within a short time after passing, I know it depends on the current hiring market etc. but any advice would be much appreciated.

My other option may be to wait for another airline scheme and see if i am applicable for that i suppose. Any opinion would be great as I am just interested to hear what everybody thinks..

Thanks in advance...
HertsPilot is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2016, 14:52
  #4644 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 24
Tricky decision. I've been through CTC and yes got the job, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone without a serious amount of thought. Personally I have much more respect for those that go modular and get the job without paying way over the odds for the training! We live and learn though. As for current job market, it's very hard to say exactly. One thing I will say though, don't believe everything sales people tell you. Make absolutely no mistake, the people you talk to at CTC are there to do a job...sell places on the Wings course. If you look at recent photos on their FB page you will see the CPL/IR holders that went through the course recently...the majority are in the ctc uniform. What does that tell you? That they haven't (yet)got a job. If you can afford it then go for it. There's a good chance you'll go straight to the rhs of a reasonably shiny jet, and it's by far the easiest way to get there. I would not want to be left jobless with that massive amount of debt though. Remember, the basic cost (around 100K) does not include the cost of a type rating(around 30k). It's also a slow course, so you have a long time of not earning to think about as well. Takes around 18 months, plus another 2 for the type rating(ish). Modular that would be more like 12 months. No right or wrong decision, just go in with your eyes wide open. Oh yeah...one last thing. All the best.
TheManFromThatPlace is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2016, 16:05
  #4645 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 16
Thanks TheManFromThatPlace useful advice, I think ill wait to hear about the airline aligned scheme then if unsuccessful have a difficult think.

Appreciate the advice!
HertsPilot is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2016, 16:36
  #4646 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
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Originally Posted by TheManFromThatPlace View Post
If you look at recent photos on their FB page you will see the CPL/IR holders that went through the course recently...the majority are in the ctc uniform. What does that tell you? That they haven't (yet)got a job.
I'm highly critical of a lot of the integrated courses and the FTOs, (as well as the kids who throw their parents money at a course like that with no consideration for the implications, and the parents who allow them to do so)...

but... in fairness to CTC, (and I asked this question of a friend who finished this year), the graduation they had (where most were in CTC uniform rather than airline uniform) was for all people who finished training and had completed their MCC in 2015. Once they finish the MCC then they are eligible to apply for airlines through CTC.

Assuming they are offered an airline selection day immediately upon applying, they usually have to wait a few weeks between being given the date and actually attending. Then assuming they are successful, they have to wait for the next type rating (and easyjet themselves now apparently have their own hold pool of CTC pilots who have passed EZY selection and are just waiting for a type rating date).
The wait from being offered a type rating date to actually starting may be a couple of months, setting up a big 30,000 loan for the type rating can take a number of weeks. Then the type rating itself is 2 months. You don't get your airline uniform until you're at the induction with the airline itself.

So that is potentially up to 6 months from finishing MCC to starting airline type rating. And I wouldn't expect it to be less than 4 months at an absolute minimum, assuming you have 30k ready to pay and get lucky with the dates.



So only people who finished their MCC by June could be expected to be at an airline and in uniform by December. Apparently of the ones still in CTC uniform, most of them had offers or start dates for type rating with the likes of easy, monarch, thomas cook and flybe. There were people who had no good news even after 6 months of waiting and applying though, but these apparently were the minority.





Having said all that, and made myself feel a little bit sick defending them, they are a business and they only care about profit. Much like airlines. They spend a hella lot on marketing, both advertising and marketing employees, so expect to be drawn in by all the shiny wonderful dreams they sell. And take it with a pinch of salt.



I would say if you are unsuccessful for one airline course, apply for another, and another. I believe you usually have to wait 6 months after failing one before you can reapply for the same one, but I think you can apply for the BA FPP, EZY MPL and Virgin MPL within 6 months of each other. Not 100% sure though.


But it's better to wait a year and be on an airline course with a guaranteed* job at the end rather than finishing then having to do the hardest part of all which is securing a job.


* Even on an airline scheme, the job is not guaranteed by any means. You have to meet all required standards throughout training. Only once you complete your line check are you "secure" as it were. (And even then you're still only as secure as any other pilot, if you consistently don't perform then you're at risk. But by the time you pass line check you're not likely to develop consistent problems that weren't already noted and fixed during line training) If you don't meet the requirements though, you'll get chopped. Apparently everyone knows someone who has been dropped by an airline, at all stages of training. I don't, but then I don't know many people from these schemes.
LlamaFarmer is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2016, 17:40
  #4647 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
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30,000 loan for the type rating
93k for CTC Wings + 30k for a type-rating now? Daylight robbery. If CTC can do exactly the same course/rating for 84k under the BA FPP scheme then how is an extra 40k justified? More importantly, who's signing up?

Wait a couple of years whilst maybe doing some gliding/PPL alongside uni/a job and apply for all the "sponsored" schemes you can. If you don't get in consider going modular - that's my plan/advice
ManUtd1999 is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2016, 18:14
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Originally Posted by ManUtd1999 View Post
93k for CTC Wings + 30k for a type-rating now? Daylight robbery. If CTC can do exactly the same course/rating for 84k under the BA FPP scheme then how is an extra 40k justified? More importantly, who's signing up?

Wait a couple of years whilst maybe doing some gliding/PPL alongside uni/a job and apply for all the "sponsored" schemes you can. If you don't get in consider going modular - that's my plan/advice

I believe under the BA FPP scheme that once you finish the CPL/IR, then you're no longer CTC's "problem", and it is BA who fund the MCC and fund or provide the type rating.

At 30k these days for their type ratings, and 10k for their MCC/JOC, that is probably where the extra 40k comes from
LlamaFarmer is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2016, 19:35
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True, if BA are funding the type-rating in full then that's 30k saved. I'm pretty sure the 84k covers the MCC though. And I wonder what an A320 rating actually costs Easyjet/CTC/other to provide......
ManUtd1999 is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2016, 20:17
  #4650 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ManUtd1999 View Post
True, if BA are funding the type-rating in full then that's 30k saved. I'm pretty sure the 84k covers the MCC though. And I wonder what an A320 rating actually costs Easyjet/CTC/other to provide......
Rumours are that they outsourced a few Thomas Cook A320 type ratings a few months ago when they ran out of room... paid TCX 18k to type rate their own pilots, so a nice 12k profit.

I stress rumours, quite possibly Chinese whispers or only half-the-truth.
LlamaFarmer is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2016, 16:25
  #4651 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
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Thanks LlamaFarmer and ManUtd1999, appreciate the advice. Will let you know when I know for definite either way.
HertsPilot is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2016, 15:54
  #4652 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: USA
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Guys, I've received some excellent advice on here regards CTC. I haven't even read the negative posts about CTC, I've spoken to and became friends with past CTC cadets who now work for Virgin/Easy and they went down the Whitetail route. Its not for everyone, if you're putting your parents house on the line it goes without saying its not the smartest move.


I've one questions regards the selection if anyone can remember when they sat their assessment. During the Capacity/ Shape test what is the time set for each segment is it 30 seconds?
Byrne11 is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2016, 05:46
  #4653 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
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Why haven't you read the negative posts also? Isn't one of the requirements of a pilot to take all information available to him and to make informed decisions?
keeflyer is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2016, 06:23
  #4654 (permalink)  
 
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True, but a lot of the negative posts don't seem to be informed, balanced or rational. It's like the posters had a chip on their shoulder, maybe because they couldn't afford to go integrated, or failed the interview.

There are a lot of sensible and impartial but negative posts, but there are a lot that are not also.


Just a thought.
LlamaFarmer is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2016, 14:19
  #4655 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 72
Exactly, my thoughts.

It comes across some posters are envious of the route that some have taken to the flight deck.
Byrne11 is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2016, 16:32
  #4656 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Cornwall
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I dont think its a case of jealously, all the time that is anyway.

I'll give my 2 cents. I've spent years wanting to get into training, and of course wanting to get to the rhs. I've sat around watching the price increase year on year (for CTC and the 2 others anyway). I couldn't afford self-sponsored.

I'm not jealous of anyone who wants to go self sponsored, thats their choice, and indeed their risk (because there is a risk involved). Not having the money at my disposal or not having it even within my reach means that I saved hard and took every opportunity to get it (or try getting it). I worked hard for years and therefore i'm very careful with the money earnt, and therefore any risk no matter how small is amplified, ideally I want 100% guarantee i'm going to get that rhs because ultimately I dont want to spend the fruits of my years of hard work to ultimately end up in the same position 18 months down the line.

I think we need to put jealousy in 1 category, but we need to put those who arent risk takers and those who are extremely cautious into another category.

Back when I was 18 I would have did anything to get on to a course like CTC wings, and that would have included a 100k hand-out from my parents secured on their mortgage. I would have been so excited to be taking the course that my vision would have been clouded by the thoughts of sitting in the rhs at the controls of an a320.

Now I wouldnt be so sure, purely just because of the risk factor involved; it doesn't make me jealous, it makes me cautious. There are some comments on here from previous cadets who haven't had a good experience. You could give me 5 negative reviews of CTC out of 100 and i'd be focusing on those 5 because its a risk and I want to mitigate that as much as possible.
FlyVeryHigh- is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2016, 03:54
  #4657 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 228
Some maybe envious, however I don't think the majority will be. This is at the end of the day an untagged integrated scheme.
To discard all the negative posts as jealous of course is your prerogative.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with going integrated if that is what you choose, I just think skipping the negative posts is not ideal when you are making your choice.
keeflyer is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2016, 06:20
  #4658 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: London
Posts: 34
Just a thought on the risk assessment thing-and something seldom pointed out here-around 2/300 whitetail CTC cadets graduate per year, afaik, if they were waiting unreasonably long for jobs, or always getting screwed by CTC, there would be a whole lot more negativity on this thread from past cadets.

There is a BIG risk, no one is denying that, and I know a couple of people who did get shafted by CTC, but just wanted to point out that a forum inevitably attracts the bitter/jealous far more than the happy.

Oh, and you can get kicked off airline courses if you don't reach the standard as well... Nothing is 100% in life.
Flaplesslanding is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2016, 08:30
  #4659 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: france
Age: 25
Posts: 6
Scared ...

Hi everyone,
Yesturday I did my re-application for the wings programme and I had only pilapts to do because my 6 tasks were low the first time and bad for the negative right square and the multitasking

So yesterday all my 6 modules were much better but only one went wrong the multitasking where I loose confidence and I did mistakes I had on the screen 12 miss and 3 hits

But all the rest of my test is pretty good
Do you think I have a chance to pass ?
And are there any other people here who had the same case ?
ywcaptain is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2016, 17:13
  #4660 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 16
I think that sounds great but who knows the performance standards, I am sure there is a minimum baseline for passing but I believe (from what I have read anyway) it comes down to improvement as well, making sure that your last score is better than first.

I am sure you have to get X out of Y but ultimately I think what also comes in to it is can you take on new information and learn from it, best of luck anyway!
HertsPilot is offline  

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