MikeAlphaTangoTango

Hi

First post on pprune and it's about money. I wonder if that'll be an on-going theme...

I'm due to go to NZ on May 30th on CP50. Having met with HSBC last week, the current deal (unsecured) is 2.75% above their base rate, which makes it 8.0% (simple) or 8.2%APR. The £1000 a month that eJ cadets get doesn't cover all the interest, repayments are around the £1100/month mark, plus any living expenses you choose to take. And it's a variable rate so could go up or down.

One thing I hadn't really considered that perhaps I should have done is that taking a £60k+ unsecured loan is not exactly going to do wonders for your credit rating.... HSBC's words, not mine.

It's a huge punt to take, but if everything goes according to plan then the investment pays for itself in (just about) a reasonable length of time. A recession, drop in airline's low hours requirements, house price crash etc etc all leave us quite exposed. I reckon we'd still be solvent if the worst happens (wife with good job, house already bought) but there ain't much of a buffer

g1344304

So is the loan actually available unsecured? Will they allow extra for living costs?

alexjolly

yeh, HSBC can offer you the bond, living expenses and money for the foundation course... in exchange for your soul.

g1344304

Il take it!

seriously though, unsecured??

alexjolly

yeh its unsecured

mbcxharm

The HSBC loan interest rate starts out at 2% above the Bank of England's base rate, and then gets realigned with the base rate + 2% during a yearly review of the arrangement if the base rate has changed in the meantime. Therefore I would suggest that if you have alternative methods of financing it with, for example, a remortgage, then this would be cheaper in the long run. It is easy to make overpayments to the loan account by simply transferring any extra cash you earn into the account to reduce the interest which is paid in every 3 months.

It is unsecured.

nickbanksy

hi, just a quick question. after reading through the ctc site, for the millionth time i guess!! i read that the foundation course which cadets MUST do before basic training comences, costs 12,000 NZ$ , is this part of the 60k bond we put down, or do we need to finance this seperately, i am not sure and hoping someone can tell me? i have the task of telling my dad today about my plans as im in my first year uni at the mo and wil leave if i am successful with ctc selection, and so i need to know the inside and outs of the finance arrangements!! thanks

GWidgery

the NZ$12k is on top of the £60k loan that you need to take. But you get the money back at about NZ$140 hr for the hours of the 60 (i think) that you don't use. So of course a person who has not flown will probably need the majority of those, whereas someone who has a PPL and uses it lots won't need very much of that at all.

GWidgery

pmrsmiffy

You are liable for the $12000NZ cost of the foundation training. However, if you do not have this money to hand then you can have it added on to your loan as well as living costs for the 2 years that you will be training.

Any lessons that you do not use during the foundation training will indeed be paid back to you at $140 per lesson. Should you require remedial lessons above the standard amount(which CTC says is almost unheard of) then these will be charged to you at a cost of around $240 per lesson.

nickbanksy

does anyone have a good estimate of how much a loan you would need to take out to cover the bond, cost of foundation course, and living etc for the duration of training?? would be helpful, thanks.

g1344304

well the bond is £60,000, the foundation course is around £4,500 sterling and then you have to live in New Zealand for 11months, provide your own food. THen there are living costs while in the UK, however CTC does give £1000 a month allowance once you enter line training i think (probably after 18months). Budget depends on your own living costs, I would include a return flight (around £750) to auckland as I want to come home for christmas but many dont. £70,000 absolute minimum but to be comfortable I would say £75,000 (however I am a student and am used to living on very low amounts of money!)

jimbols6

Are HSBC really gona lend 75k unsecured has anyone actually had this amount???

pmrsmiffy

Yes, the loan is unsecured, yes you can extend it for Foundation Course and living costs. This is actually stated on the CTC website should you care to read it.

Not meaning to be rude, but when people say things on these forums, they don't lie. And the majority of the time, the answer you are looking for can be found without having to ask.

I suggest reading the last 6-7 pages of this thread again where the loan has been discussed in some detail.

Glad to be of help.

nickbanksy

thanks for the info on the loan!! 75k sounds a good amount i guess, am a student too, but used to spending lots!!! will all have to change i guess! the foundation course works out at quite good value for money i think if you look at the cost per hour of flying, much cheaper than somewhere privately in this country!if i get there ill prob do the full 69hours, and go for JAA PPl aswell, while im at it!

nickbanksy

wasnt going to post this as i dont know whether its covered before or some1s mentioned it, but am quite frustrated about the whole thing at the moment, i am first year uni, and am applying for the ctc cadets scheme. i am potentially giving up on my degree to do the flying training and become qualified(hopefully). by the time i would have finished the ctc training i will be 21, so realistically what would my chances for employment with an airline be?? with a small debt from uni, and then the 75k loan on top of that, i would be in a whole world of trouble if i was to be unemployed for years afterwards, especially with no degree, and a debt of over 100k under my belt (with the interest). am just very confused and worried about what decision to take at the moment...

BitMoreRightRudder

Mate thats the risk we all took to get the job. If you leave uni and go to CTC now you will have lots of debt. If you finish uni and then go to CTC/whoever you will still have lots of debt. You want to be a pilot so you are going to have to pay to get into the club however you choose to do it, unless you go via the RAF.

If you feel you can't wait then go for it, a mate from my course quit uni half way through his degree to go to NZ. Plenty of other guys did. Personally at your age I'd finish the degree, but thats just me. CTC won't guarantee you a job - they can't, but they haven't failed to place a cadet with an airline yet.

PPL152

I personally applied to CTC and was selected for stage 2. However, if I get on the course I want at university, I will probably have to give up CTC for now and go to uni first.

Again, I think that having a degree is important for many reasons. It provides a very very good backup if you work as a pilot. There are two main factors which make a pilot's job very unstable:

1) Airline financial status
2) Pilot's medical

If one of these is off, then you lose your job. I know a few pilots without a degree who eagerly want to study for a degree or maybe get into another job (like part-time instructing) so that they minimise the risk of losing a job.

I would definitely recommend university first if you made it to the course you like. Otherwise, it's a different story.

MajorYaw

I feel your pain and think you are wise to question what you are potentially getting into.

In terms of age, I wouldn’t sweat it too much. I am trying to get into this game and I’m nearly 30. I am prepared to take the risk for the chance to spend the rest of my life doing something that will make me truly happy every day, instead of just another job. I have been warned that at my age, I may be less attractive to airlines, but I believe I can counterbalance this with a lot of hard work, enthusiasm and a mature perspective supposedly gleaned from “life experience”. Not to mention that even at 32, I still would have up to 28 years of jet flying to get out of me, which is plenty. I’m prepared to take the risk because this is what I want.

Regarding uni, if you’re doing a degree that you really like, you may be advised to see it through. One little bell weather is to look now at all the jobs that you could apply for were you to leave uni without a degree. It’s a bit frightening to see how low down the food chain you are, and the crap money and positions you’d take up. That thought kept me in university at least once.

If you’re careful at Uni, you can limit the debt you leave with. This is probably easier if you’re aiming at CTC on graduation. At least then you’ve got a big reason not go on crazy spending sprees. Get a part-time job and save or offset your debt. On graduation, you could work for a year to partially repay your debt, get commercial experience to enhance the CV and get more life experience and some training. Then go to CTC. Explaining that you’ve successfully implemented a 5 year plan to be fully prepared for all eventualities is more likely to impress than disappoint them.

Personally, I would not miss out on the chance to have the freedom and great times uni affords. There’s never another time in life where you can do what you want to such an extent. You’ll graduate at 24-ish with more experience and a better chance of getting through CTC’s selection process, you might have been able to fly in your UAS etc and you’ll have a degree to give you more employment options should flying not work out.

On the debt side, you can limit your student liabilities through being prudent. You don’t repay until your earnings hit a certain amount, so no one’s going to knock on your door till you’ve got a job. The CTC debt is something you must accept with a degree of bloody-mindedness. There’s no getting around it. Just be grateful that CTC allow you the opportunity of an unsecured loan. Think of the bigger risk of securing the debt against, say, your house and what would happen if things went belly up: debt, disappointment, and no house.

If you have misgivings about going for this right now (because of the opportunity cost of what you feel you have to sacrifice), maybe it isn’t the right time for you. Don’t rush into this without being ready, otherwise you may regret it and might not perform to your max if you start the course.


Just my 0.02.

stevoneil

Hi

I have recently applied to CTC wings to become an airline pilot. I was successful in the first stage of selection and ive been invited twice by the admin team for the second stage of interview. Unfortunately I didn’t think about the lack of access to the £60,000 required to complete the course. I wonder if anyone has had experiences with them through training etc that might be able to advise me if this is something I can still follow through with or should I forget about it? Any advice would be gratefully received

AlphaMale

You could try HSBC but I think they are lowering their Prof Pilot loans from £50k to £25k dur to so many pilots declaring themselves bankrupt. HSBC only offer this loan to OAT and FTE or CTC students. This is only what I have read on this forum mind.

Good luck. Not sure CTC would be too impressed that you can't plan your finances though. If you can't plan where to find £60k before wasting their time I am not so sure they will have the confidence in you to plan a transatlantic flight