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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

Old 28th May 2010, 08:06
  #3661 (permalink)  
 
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That's right. ICP pilots, presuming you do the ATP AQC, go to the bottom of the hold pool and wings cadets move in above them.
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Old 28th May 2010, 09:11
  #3662 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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CTC Icp

That is incorrect.

Nowadays the Icp cadets are placed in the same order as Wings cadets. There is NO difference between the two routes. The 'selection' process was a gimmick to make you think you were lucky to get onto the course.

It may have been relevant back in the days when Easyjet were paying people to come and work for them but not anymore.
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Old 28th May 2010, 10:41
  #3663 (permalink)  
 
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All wrong.
According to the latest update, ICP students, after completion of the CPL-IR, take an interview with the head of training! It's basically a review of the training and if it is seen as up to standards then the trainee will be offered a place for the AQC, for which he will have to pay for.
Upon completion of the AQC and because the trainee did his basic training WITH CTC, he will join normal cadets in the holding pool and will remain with his CP fellow mate on the seniority list.

It is different for ATP guys. As they only join CTC for the AQC they won't be in the same holding pool. It doesn't mean they'll be at the bottom, it just a different list I guess.
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Old 30th May 2010, 23:54
  #3664 (permalink)  
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Bottom line is there isn't a CTC scheme which is likely to cost you less than 100,000 on your way to a first career job.

That's a big entrance fee to a 40k gross income job. Promotion to Captain being something you can't actually factor into the equation. THE JOB is airline FO.

WWW
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Old 31st May 2010, 10:09
  #3665 (permalink)  
 
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Went for CTC interview in 2008. (but luckily declined after advice from this fourm!)

As far as I am aware most people who are reasonably competent during the CTC interview process will get offered a place on iCP. Even if they dont meet the 'wings standard'. So despite the myth its not hard to get into CTC. You just need to pass the maths test & average pilapt score to get offered iCP place.

The advantage of the wings course used to be

- unsecured loan
- TR paid for

However now these benefits have gone there seems to be little / no difference between the iCP and Wings streams ?

100K investment in training is OK, so long as you secure a well paid full time job after graduation. However it all just seemed like to much of a gamble to me... It is quite simply a huge sum of money to invest unless your sure of the outcome ?

There seems to be lots of 'smoke and mirrors' about current job opportunity for CTC cadets. Why wont CTC tell people how long the hold pool might be before they sign up ? The training is with out doubt first class. But I very much doubt it is the golden ticket to becoming a jet pilot that it used to be ? (as the huge expansion of budget airlines seen from 2000-2008 is unlikely to be repeated)

Last edited by Air_One; 31st May 2010 at 11:42.
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Old 31st May 2010, 14:23
  #3666 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Am I right in thinking that a few years ago, there were far more people bleating on here about how they had failed this stage or that stage and if anyone had any info on reapplication etc.?
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Old 1st Jun 2010, 11:18
  #3667 (permalink)  
 
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Sharpclassic,

Yes you're right. Because in those days CTC took only the best onto their scheme. No they will take anyone that can stump up the cash. Back in the day if you failed selection you moved onto another route to achieve your dream. Failing CTC selection then never meant you weren't good enough to become a good pilot, it just meant that you didn't meet CTC's criteria.

It's such a sad state of affairs now.

L Met
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Old 1st Jun 2010, 19:39
  #3668 (permalink)  
 
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I witnessed during selection 3 out of 6 fail phase 2...
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Old 3rd Jun 2010, 09:58
  #3669 (permalink)  
 
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> 17 candidates and 13 failed.

Ahhhh.... But Just because you 'failed' phase 2 doesnt meant they don't offer you a place on the iCP stream instead.

I suspect several of the 13 who failed Wings selection will have been offered iCP places. Historically this used to be (in CTC words) a 'self sponsored' stream. But iCP is now almost identical to the wings course.

The selection process is a total gimmick. Yes - they want to make sure they select candidates are capable of passing. But its also alot of crap - basically designed to make those who do pass feel 'special' so they accept the 'once in a lifetime opportunity'.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 01:22
  #3670 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe they could try something similar to the RAF aptitude tests at cranwell, at least they were actually quite challenging and made you feel satisfied to get through.

I attending the CTC selection days 2, 3 & 4 (back in 2007) and I came out feeling like Id just been bent over backwards by some sort of sleazy used car sales man.

I'd agree that plenty were being turned away back in those days, but lets face it the calibre was hardly high was it, it certainly wasn't the day I was down in Bournemouth i know that much.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 04:53
  #3671 (permalink)  
 
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Smile

hi ,

if you are desperate to pass tests, I can offer you airline training and take care of school inscription.

for a small sum, i can contact all my friends in the airline industry and even offer you a type rating ( and maybe I can get you a job).
in fact I will be your agent, and I work from home to keep price down.

100% pass guarantee (as long you have the money).You keep the money, and you pay for each step.

I can train you in less than 2 years and you will get a CPL( frozen)+IR+MCC+t/r

cost around 100'000$. you keep the money, and you pay step by step.

I charge only my time spent :- to book places, and my time spent with you..
I accept payment online only, paypal,...


avoid these suckers of CTC. believe me, better to go with me, than spending money in these academies who promise only dreams!

I have already 3 guys, I take 10 guys maximum.so hurry up!
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 10:07
  #3672 (permalink)  
 
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> So what do you suggest they do for a better selection process Air One?

I am just making the point that many of those who 'fail' selection for Wings will get offered an iCP place.

Now the loan is secured, and you have to pay for TR, the 2 courses are almost identical. And it seems you even go into the same hold pool at the end.

CTC is quite clearly a business.
More people on courses = higher profit.
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Old 5th Jun 2010, 11:26
  #3673 (permalink)  
 
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Not just "many of those" but ALL. Let's make it clear, as you progress through the selection they clearly ask you the question: If you are not successful, will you consider our ICP program?
CTC is now one more integrated route in UK, with one last advantage, its connection with the airlines. Yes the TR is not free any more but it is a job.
And I suspect emirates to launch a cadet program soon as there are more and more photo of the airline on the walls at both Bournemouth and Dibden... The old Britannia and other monarch jets have now been replaced by some shiny Emirates A380 or other 777...
Sar really
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Old 6th Jun 2010, 09:21
  #3674 (permalink)  
 
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Emirates launch a cadet program with CTC?

HAHAHAHAHA! Just the kind of ridiculous publicity that CTC would love.

Then again, EK are finding it so difficult to find experienced guys to join them that they may well have to do a cadet route.

120hours a month anyone?! Living in accommodation out by the new airport? Enjoy!
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Old 6th Jun 2010, 12:52
  #3675 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WWW
Bottom line is there isn't a CTC scheme which is likely to cost you less than 100,000 on your way to a first career job.
It's difficult to tot it all up because of the number of differing factors involved - how much you borrow to start with, financial commitments outside the course, how long you have to wait for type rating, etc. But as a VERY rough guide, here's how I'd approach it:

- Cost of the Wings course - 69,000

- Interest accrued over the repayment term - (depends on the terms of the loan really, but when I signed up the course cost was 60,000 and the total repayable over 7 years was expected to be 84,000 so let's use that for now and call it...) 24,000

- Foundation course cost (at current exchange rate) - 8,000

- Living costs (you're not earning, so these have to be taken into account - as a very low-end guess, let's say 500/month for 18 months) - 9,000

- Insurance - at least 1,000, from what I hear.

So already that's a total cost - not an up-front cost, as a chunk of it is interest which will accrue over time - but a TOTAL cost - of 111,000 . And if you end up going to an airline which requires a contribution towards the type rating, it's probably going to be another small five-figure sum on top of that...

Fancy PowerPoint slideshows, slick marketing presentations and website FAQs showing the "money flow" are all very well and good, but at the end of the day that's a sum of money well into six figures which will be against YOUR name, and you're going to be paying back at some stage along the line.

If you still think it's for you then fair enough - it worked for me, although having to pay that much back is like having a millstone around one's neck for 7 years. But just think about it. Well over a hundred thousand quid...
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Old 9th Jul 2010, 04:22
  #3676 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NZ
Age: 54
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Smile CTC Hamilton NZ Pilapt / maths Test (Phase 2) Help

Hi There

Im off to CTC in Hamilton NZ, next week to sit phase 2. Can anyone help / offer advice?. Also not sure how much NZ is different than CTC UK
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Old 9th Jul 2010, 10:54
  #3677 (permalink)  
 
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To add to your point Zippy, something no one ever seems to take in account when looking at the cost of these schemes is lost earning potential. If you are currently in a nice 30,000 a year job then by training for 2 years you are in effect losing out on 24k ish a year, adding to the 'cost' of living the dream by another 48k.
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Old 9th Jul 2010, 13:06
  #3678 (permalink)  
 
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At least the taxman has to wind his neck in!
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Old 9th Jul 2010, 14:10
  #3679 (permalink)  
 
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Pilot Chris

Totally agree, although you can also factor in the possibility of a higher end-of-career take home, depending on personal circumstances. This can be good justification for high financial outlay initially when the total career earnings increase by taking the flying option (even when taking in to account the training costs plus 'lost' earnings, which may come back to you with a higher salary later in life).

Normal disclaimers apply; nothing ever guaranteed, different for everyone etc.
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Old 11th Jul 2010, 17:22
  #3680 (permalink)  
 
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CTC wings cadet insurance

Hi,

I'm starting as a CTC wings cadets soon and need to sort out my insurance. I need to have 'life insurance', 'loss of class 1 medical insurance', 'contents insurance' whilst living in the UK, 'loss of security bond insurance' and 'travel insurence' whilst training in New Zealand. I have been advised of an insurance company that will offer a package including all of these but would like to know if anyone has any other advice on where to gain this insurance, where to get a good deal etc. Thanks.
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