MJS23

I've just successfully passed CTC's selection & I am now weighing up whether or not to start training with the company, does anyone know the number of people starting the CTC wings cadet course each year compared to the number that fail?

shorty79

“We are very proud of our training record and more than 98% of our cadets complete training with flying colours. However, when you are investing significant funds into your career, it is good to know that a considerable amount of the financial risk is reduced where possible. By increasing our ‘Bond Protection’ to £40,000 we believe we offer the best such safeguard available for aspiring pilots. In addition to our strong track record, this ‘Bond Protection’ offers the added reassurance that your investment will be protected in the event of failure during training” explains Captain Lee Woodward, Executive Director of CTC and Head of CTC Wings.


CTC Wings announces bond protection | CTC Wings

ramyraul

thanks STREETY that was really so helpful.

MJS23

Is anyone currently a CTC Flexicrew pilot after training on the wings couse? Just wondering what the average hours per year are?

HPbleed

Plan on 0 because that's what's in the contract. Expect around 700-800 depending on base and how many more they take on this spring. I had 30 hours in november and 40 in december.... not enough to repay the loan. Good luck.

MJS23

But I thought it was £45 per hour? Surely with that you'd have enough? Sorry to hear you're struggling! Any sign of a permanent contract for you?

MJS23

Just realised how tight that must be, sorry man. Were you busier in summer months?

HPbleed

It's £43 an hour. Loan repayments are £1200 a month, living costs (rent, council tax, bills, insurance, breakdown cover, tv licence, phone bill and BALPA subs) are just over £500. That excludes petrol, road tax, MOT, clothes, a social life (who wanted one of those though right?) and food. So actually I tend to spend around £1900-£2000 mainly because my car has needed a bit of work lately.

Remember you will also need to pay for your own medical, your own uniform (and topups), your own loss of licence insurance and term assurance for your loan. I can't afford medical insurance so if for some reason I just can't fly but don't lose my licence I won't get anything.

Also, your student loan payments will be relatively high because it's taken out before you pay your professional studies loan.

So to be able to live "comfortably" (without saving anything and really without going out at all) you need about 65 hours a month. Each standby counts for 3.5 hours. So 60 hours and 2 standbys would be ok.

November was exactly 24 hours plus several standbys. December isn't much better. Yes, during the summer I was working about 75 hours a month, but had to pay off some of the professional studies loan - which I couldn't pay off during the initial 8 month period where we all get £1200 a month. So had nothing saved. But now, once again I'm unable to make full payments on my loan so am back into arrears.

Anyone who is considering flexicrew, unless you live at home and have wealthy parents to feed you and clothe you I would think twice. Oh yeah, did I forget to mention I had to borrow £8000 for the inital Type Rating? Still paying that back too.

For those who are going to say "well you shouldn't have done it - you knew the risks" because I know you're out there, then yes, you're right, I shouldn't have. But then I'd still be working behind a bar on minimum wage, with the loan STILL sitting there in the bank. At least I've started paying it off and I'm doing a job I love (once the door's closed), but would I do it again, or recommend it to someone starting out? Hell no. And it wasn't anything like this when I started training - remember that.

MJS23

Mate I'm sorry it's so tight. Did you get a choice to take the flexicrew or wait for a cadet entry contract? How long we're you in the holdpool? Could we maybe have a chat tonight either on Skype or phone? I've got alot of questions and you have already been a massive help! Cheers

HPbleed

Over a year in the hold pool. No choice, if I'd turned down a TR and Flexicrew, guys after me would have accepted it. There is the option of permanent European contracts, maybe a year after you join, but unfortunately they don't work for me due personal commitments.

Just want people to be aware it isn't as great as CTC and easyJet make it out to be.

greywind

There isn't a choice, it's flexicrew or nothing. I'm sure CTC will tell you things will be different by the time you finish your course - I wouldn't bank on it.

MJS23

Yikes, all sounds a bit less jazzy eh! They've told me that no one stays on flexicrew for longer than 3 years before getting a permanent contract, is it looking that way for you? How are your course mates getting on now? Thanks so much for the answers dude!

HPbleed

Flexicrew came into existence two years ago. No-one knows what will happen at the end of the first three year contract.

No sign of permanent UK positions at all for forseeable future. There are discussions between BALPA and eJ at the moment but mainly about lifestyle and roster patterns. BALPA say they are talking about flexicrew but there has been no communication as yet about the state of play or what may come about.

As an aside, the FRV pattern is also a killer. A year is too much, 2 years results in constant fatigue. And if you call in fatigued you don't get paid. If you call in sick, you don't get paid. Guys I know have turned up with flu for a Sharm el Sheik just so they get their £500. CAA safety department don't want to know anything about it.

MJS23

crazy. Do you mind me asking how much loan you had to take out? Have you heard from your coursemates and how they're getting on? Everyone go to Easyjet? Don't know how i'll make this decision...

HPbleed

£60'000 (unsecured). Everyone is in the same boat unless their parents paid for it - but do you want to risk your parents house for what is now £100'000 secured? I certainly wouldn't. I was lucky enough to get in before it got even worse. I can only advise you to get as much of an education as possible, become a doctor, a lawyer, architect whatever, and fly for fun.

greywind

Just £60,000 unsecured? Most I know are around £75,000 plus a £10,000 living allowance loan - that was back in the day when HSBC were dishing the loans out.

HPbleed

Yes, just £60k. There was option of £10'000 living allowances, but I worked hard in the year lead up and had £4000 which was more than sufficient to live in NZ for a year, considering accomodation and transport is provided. That was 2007, look how much it has gone up in 4 years.

MJS23 I graduated in summer 2009, the training generally was average, particularly in NZ. Young instructors just hour building to get into an NZ airline. Bournemouth was noticeably better with experienced instructors who had once upon a time flown for an airline or military.

The repayments are so high because I spent 14/15 months between graduating and getting a job with flexicrew. In that time I did a lot of part time and temporary work to try and pay the bills - they gave us no idea of when we might actually get a position so it was difficult to get a full time job. The loan was sat there, HSBC had agreed to interest only payments, but the time scale never changed, so effectively I'm now paying off the same amount but in 5 and a half years instead of 7.

MJS23

Did you hear of anyone getting UK cadet or direct entry contracts? Will you look to forfeit the loan and move airlines at the end of your 3 year contract?

Flies-like-a-chicken

Does anyone have an idea how long the wait is now before starting with EJ after graduation? I would have thought the recession might reduce the waiting time...

Dct_Mopas

Steveop, most flexicrew do indeed try and swap duties to gain more hours in a month. Problem is when you only have 4 days flying in a month then this is limited, especially as once you have a day off then it can't be swapped for a flight. Even worse when captains are agreeing to fly from the right hand seat and thus reduce hours for flexicrew even more, fun and games . . . .