The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.
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Pilapt
I have one specific question regarding the pilapt tests. I've had a look on the website to see images of what the tests look like. With regards to the 'identifying a shape' amongst a clutter of lines from your experience is the shape sometimes rotated upside down or flipped over in the pictures rather than always being the same way up as shown?
Cheers
Cheers
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I have to disagree with you both - I can't remember it at all...
Why are you worrying about this? Relax and get a good nights sleep before hand, it will benefit you far more than worrying about which way around the shapes might be or whether the chap holding circles and squares in different hands has the features of a cro-magnon or a neanderthal...
The fact that the two fine debt-riddled persons above have contradicting memories, and that my poor brain has absolutely no recollection whatsoever, should probably reassure you that it's something of a non-issue.
Why are you worrying about this? Relax and get a good nights sleep before hand, it will benefit you far more than worrying about which way around the shapes might be or whether the chap holding circles and squares in different hands has the features of a cro-magnon or a neanderthal...
The fact that the two fine debt-riddled persons above have contradicting memories, and that my poor brain has absolutely no recollection whatsoever, should probably reassure you that it's something of a non-issue.
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i took my stage 2 yesterday, the shape is always the same size and orientation as shown.
well done to all the other guys that passed yesterday, hope to see some of you again at stage 3
anyone got any info on what sorta things they ask at the interview at stage 3, and what the group exercises consist of?
cheers
well done to all the other guys that passed yesterday, hope to see some of you again at stage 3
anyone got any info on what sorta things they ask at the interview at stage 3, and what the group exercises consist of?
cheers
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Stage 2 Reassurance
Although I've often read this thread, I've never bothered to post. But today, I felt like a change. I just wanted to add a few thoughts about stage 2 as reassurance to peeps going through it. I did mine ages ago, but I still remember it quite vividly, mainly for the emotional high I got from getting through it. For me, that day was a great day, full of different emotions. Not to mention the build up to it, which was a mini-rollercoaster in itself for a variety of reasons!
I won't repeat what's been said about S2 elsewhere if I can avoid it, as what I've read on here turned out to be accurate. Thanks to those who took the time to provide support to us all, it's greatly appreciated and helped me get where I am today.
Overall, the S2 maths test was easier than I thought it was going to be. The difficulty of the test is the time constraint you are under. 15 questions in 15 minutes suggests 1 min per question, but the reality, as with most tests, isn't that straightforward (or bad). The early questions are easy, and can be done in seconds. The later questions are harder and need a bit more time. However, provided you are good enough at maths to do simple arithmetic in your head or on the paper to arrive at an answer close enough to the correct muli-choice answer, you can still pass the test. Listen to whatever advice you are given on the day, it's good advice.
That's not to say that you shouldn't bother doing any practice. A pilot needs to handle numbers, so if you can't or you have trouble, practise, practise, practise. This will alleviate your nerves, improve your performance on the day and set you in good stead should you be successful. Passing selection is the beginning, not the end of the process. The end of the process is becoming gainfully employed by an airline, and anything you can do to improve your chances now is an investment in your future.
Numeracy test workbooks are good sources of general maths practice that have relevance to the real world. The Bill Handley Speed Mathematics book is good too, if you have enough time to absorb and practice the techniques. Don't be fooled though. That book requires as much learning of a new technique as it confers a benefit having done so. If you don't have time to properly learn the techniques, you could work against yourself. Stick to the maths techniques you know and concentrate on improving those if you are short of prep time. If you have no technique or are dire at a particular aspect e.g. division, research and practice a technique that you can get comfy with. I only came across the book well after I did S2, and it's a real insight into mathematical calculations. In many ways, it illustrated in black and white what many of us do in our heads but have never bothered to express to ourselves. There are many techniques in there, and a lot to remember, but time with the techniques is time well spent if you don't have successful calculation strategies already.
The PILAPT test can be a daunting prospect. I understand why. Stage 2 is a totally quantitative pass/fail situation, and there's a fear of the unknown. If you can't do the maths, or you can't meet the PILAPT grade, you are out (maths test resit allowed). That's a frightening prospect, but it's no reason to not try.
Some people on here have stated that it's not possible to train for PILAPT. That's simply not true. Sure, there are some people in the population who would just be rubbish at the tests regardless, but such people probably won't be entertaining thoughts of a career in flying anyway, and probably don't meet the academic standards of CTC. The idea that the ability to fly a plane is something that one is born with is utterly arrogant and seriously ill informed. The idea that we are born with the ability to do something totally un-natural is flawed. This is borne out by the fact that pilots go through extensive training, period! Of course, your background will influence your performance or ability in the tests, but anyone can improve their chances in any test by direct or indirect training. These tests are not about flying per sé. They are about the skills we have developed throughout our life and will continue to use. It's possible to acquire and develop them all, without ever setting foot in a plane.
To me, PILAPT is more than the test itself. Sure, it's about hand-eye co-ordination, concentration, visual acuity, visual and audible alertness and mental and physical muti-tasking. But, it's also about intelligence and the strategic mindset you take towards the test. You can train for this test by either using the software mentioned elsewhere in this and the other thread, and also by doing things in everyday life. Play flight simulators of some description. Practice manual landings on whatever flight sim you have (doesn't have to be MS FS, you could get Falcon 6, USAF Navy fighters and do carrier approaches etc). Play more complex video games requiring stick control (Rogue Leader et al). Whatever gets you into the mindframe and the practice along these lines. You don't have to cane it day in, day out, just some here, some there, in order to develop your touch and the ability think about a few things at once and get your plane safely on the deck. Personally, I always loved playing flight sims and particularly pulling off carrier landings. Incredibly satisfying and quite demanding.
Another thing to be sure to check for yourself is your ability to handle audio, visual and physical stimuli at once. Can you hold a reasonable conversation while driving, particularly when doing 60 on a winding country road, holding accurate speeds at the same time? If not, have a practise. How much of the radio 4 news can you remember 5 minutes after it was on when you are driving in heavy motorway traffic? The alternative to this is using the practice software. I had a go with PILAPT Prep. It's not a replica of the PILAPT test, but it sure helps and it's cheap. It's not without its niggles though. If you want more, check out the cockpitweb thingy, but you need time for it to come through.
When it comes to PILAPT itself, the test is incredibly clear about what you need to do. Take all the time you need to read and understand the tests. As mentioned, it's about meeting baseline performance criteria and showing the ability to get better, even if you start off badly. There is no upper time limit to the overall PILAPT test. It ends when you get to the end.
Deviation is one thing that is performed multiple times. You get another chance.
Take all the opportunities in the test to use the practice time.
Where you have a max time within which to provide a decision, use it if you need to. Get the answer right, as quick as you can. Don't get it wrong as quick as you can! Use your head - consider when in real life you'd see a scenario that relates to this test.
Self-induced stress in this environment will hamper your ability. That's mental or physical stress. Mental stress induces a lock up in your brain. Physical stress can do the same and reduces your ability to, say, use a joystick smoothly, or hit the right keys. Take time between tests to rest and relax. During tests, keep breathing. Don't grip the joystick really tight, there's no need. And so on.
Go to the S2 day without too much emotion. Accept that by the time you get there, you can only do what you can do. Stay calm, be switched on and have faith in yourself. Sleep & breakfast are important, as is good hydration throughout the day.
One more thing. Don't even bother trying to compare yourself with other candidates. It's a total waste of time. Everyone's different in background and personality. Ignore the temptation to feel superior, inferior or in competition with these people. You are competing with CTC Standards, not the other candidates. If you meet that standard, you are going through. Arrogance is a killer in any selection process. Eliminate it from your own mind and be extremely wary of those who openly display such a trait, be it during selection or during training.
I hope this is of some value to someone. The best of luck to you all, I hope you are successful.
Trust me, it's all worthwhile.
I won't repeat what's been said about S2 elsewhere if I can avoid it, as what I've read on here turned out to be accurate. Thanks to those who took the time to provide support to us all, it's greatly appreciated and helped me get where I am today.
Overall, the S2 maths test was easier than I thought it was going to be. The difficulty of the test is the time constraint you are under. 15 questions in 15 minutes suggests 1 min per question, but the reality, as with most tests, isn't that straightforward (or bad). The early questions are easy, and can be done in seconds. The later questions are harder and need a bit more time. However, provided you are good enough at maths to do simple arithmetic in your head or on the paper to arrive at an answer close enough to the correct muli-choice answer, you can still pass the test. Listen to whatever advice you are given on the day, it's good advice.
That's not to say that you shouldn't bother doing any practice. A pilot needs to handle numbers, so if you can't or you have trouble, practise, practise, practise. This will alleviate your nerves, improve your performance on the day and set you in good stead should you be successful. Passing selection is the beginning, not the end of the process. The end of the process is becoming gainfully employed by an airline, and anything you can do to improve your chances now is an investment in your future.
Numeracy test workbooks are good sources of general maths practice that have relevance to the real world. The Bill Handley Speed Mathematics book is good too, if you have enough time to absorb and practice the techniques. Don't be fooled though. That book requires as much learning of a new technique as it confers a benefit having done so. If you don't have time to properly learn the techniques, you could work against yourself. Stick to the maths techniques you know and concentrate on improving those if you are short of prep time. If you have no technique or are dire at a particular aspect e.g. division, research and practice a technique that you can get comfy with. I only came across the book well after I did S2, and it's a real insight into mathematical calculations. In many ways, it illustrated in black and white what many of us do in our heads but have never bothered to express to ourselves. There are many techniques in there, and a lot to remember, but time with the techniques is time well spent if you don't have successful calculation strategies already.
The PILAPT test can be a daunting prospect. I understand why. Stage 2 is a totally quantitative pass/fail situation, and there's a fear of the unknown. If you can't do the maths, or you can't meet the PILAPT grade, you are out (maths test resit allowed). That's a frightening prospect, but it's no reason to not try.
Some people on here have stated that it's not possible to train for PILAPT. That's simply not true. Sure, there are some people in the population who would just be rubbish at the tests regardless, but such people probably won't be entertaining thoughts of a career in flying anyway, and probably don't meet the academic standards of CTC. The idea that the ability to fly a plane is something that one is born with is utterly arrogant and seriously ill informed. The idea that we are born with the ability to do something totally un-natural is flawed. This is borne out by the fact that pilots go through extensive training, period! Of course, your background will influence your performance or ability in the tests, but anyone can improve their chances in any test by direct or indirect training. These tests are not about flying per sé. They are about the skills we have developed throughout our life and will continue to use. It's possible to acquire and develop them all, without ever setting foot in a plane.
To me, PILAPT is more than the test itself. Sure, it's about hand-eye co-ordination, concentration, visual acuity, visual and audible alertness and mental and physical muti-tasking. But, it's also about intelligence and the strategic mindset you take towards the test. You can train for this test by either using the software mentioned elsewhere in this and the other thread, and also by doing things in everyday life. Play flight simulators of some description. Practice manual landings on whatever flight sim you have (doesn't have to be MS FS, you could get Falcon 6, USAF Navy fighters and do carrier approaches etc). Play more complex video games requiring stick control (Rogue Leader et al). Whatever gets you into the mindframe and the practice along these lines. You don't have to cane it day in, day out, just some here, some there, in order to develop your touch and the ability think about a few things at once and get your plane safely on the deck. Personally, I always loved playing flight sims and particularly pulling off carrier landings. Incredibly satisfying and quite demanding.
Another thing to be sure to check for yourself is your ability to handle audio, visual and physical stimuli at once. Can you hold a reasonable conversation while driving, particularly when doing 60 on a winding country road, holding accurate speeds at the same time? If not, have a practise. How much of the radio 4 news can you remember 5 minutes after it was on when you are driving in heavy motorway traffic? The alternative to this is using the practice software. I had a go with PILAPT Prep. It's not a replica of the PILAPT test, but it sure helps and it's cheap. It's not without its niggles though. If you want more, check out the cockpitweb thingy, but you need time for it to come through.
When it comes to PILAPT itself, the test is incredibly clear about what you need to do. Take all the time you need to read and understand the tests. As mentioned, it's about meeting baseline performance criteria and showing the ability to get better, even if you start off badly. There is no upper time limit to the overall PILAPT test. It ends when you get to the end.
Deviation is one thing that is performed multiple times. You get another chance.
Take all the opportunities in the test to use the practice time.
Where you have a max time within which to provide a decision, use it if you need to. Get the answer right, as quick as you can. Don't get it wrong as quick as you can! Use your head - consider when in real life you'd see a scenario that relates to this test.
Self-induced stress in this environment will hamper your ability. That's mental or physical stress. Mental stress induces a lock up in your brain. Physical stress can do the same and reduces your ability to, say, use a joystick smoothly, or hit the right keys. Take time between tests to rest and relax. During tests, keep breathing. Don't grip the joystick really tight, there's no need. And so on.
Go to the S2 day without too much emotion. Accept that by the time you get there, you can only do what you can do. Stay calm, be switched on and have faith in yourself. Sleep & breakfast are important, as is good hydration throughout the day.
One more thing. Don't even bother trying to compare yourself with other candidates. It's a total waste of time. Everyone's different in background and personality. Ignore the temptation to feel superior, inferior or in competition with these people. You are competing with CTC Standards, not the other candidates. If you meet that standard, you are going through. Arrogance is a killer in any selection process. Eliminate it from your own mind and be extremely wary of those who openly display such a trait, be it during selection or during training.
I hope this is of some value to someone. The best of luck to you all, I hope you are successful.
Trust me, it's all worthwhile.
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Hi Linzi
I wouldn't dare suggest such a thing
! Value my life far too much to get caught up in a 'lady and her shoes' scrap! Learned that the hard way many years ago.
Good luck with the last bits - see you out there in a couple months.
FA
I wouldn't dare suggest such a thing
! Value my life far too much to get caught up in a 'lady and her shoes' scrap! Learned that the hard way many years ago.Good luck with the last bits - see you out there in a couple months.
FA
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Tommyketch,
Best piece of advice i've read since looking through just about every note on Stage 2!
I have mine this friday and bricking it, to say the least...
I suppose after reading your post its good to be aprehensive but at the same time and most important, relaxed! My ex-flatmate flies out to NZ in a little over a week and he swears by this - relaxation and being "quietly confident" (yes rossco - you can explain this one to all us wannabes out there) and just to be yourself.
On another note, I very much agree with you on the Bill Handley Speed Mathematics book. Its an excellent book which opens your mind up to many new ways of calculation however if your going to learn them, then definitely take your time and try to get out of the habitual methods most of us were tought in school; use them in every day life and practise on even the most minor of situations.
I have been studying this book for a few weeks now and have also tried to exercise the methods by practising on timed pyschometric tests. At times, I found myself sometimes taking longer to do the "simple" calculations using his methods than ways i would normally have done, so be smart and if you choose to study his methods, just remember that whatever method you think is easiest will probably often be the quickest.
If anyone else is going to be there for the 9.30 "fun house grilling" this friday then i look forward to meeting you... i 'm looking forward to it!
And best of luck to anyone else who is about to undertake the second stage (or any other stage) for that matter
Stuart
The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Douglas Adams
Best piece of advice i've read since looking through just about every note on Stage 2!
I have mine this friday and bricking it, to say the least...
I suppose after reading your post its good to be aprehensive but at the same time and most important, relaxed! My ex-flatmate flies out to NZ in a little over a week and he swears by this - relaxation and being "quietly confident" (yes rossco - you can explain this one to all us wannabes out there) and just to be yourself.
On another note, I very much agree with you on the Bill Handley Speed Mathematics book. Its an excellent book which opens your mind up to many new ways of calculation however if your going to learn them, then definitely take your time and try to get out of the habitual methods most of us were tought in school; use them in every day life and practise on even the most minor of situations.
I have been studying this book for a few weeks now and have also tried to exercise the methods by practising on timed pyschometric tests. At times, I found myself sometimes taking longer to do the "simple" calculations using his methods than ways i would normally have done, so be smart and if you choose to study his methods, just remember that whatever method you think is easiest will probably often be the quickest.
If anyone else is going to be there for the 9.30 "fun house grilling" this friday then i look forward to meeting you... i 'm looking forward to it!
And best of luck to anyone else who is about to undertake the second stage (or any other stage) for that matter
Stuart
The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Douglas Adams
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I have applied to the wings programme and have stage 2 coming up in a few months, and in the mean time, I'd like to get to know more about the programme.
Exactly, what makes the CTC programme unique, and how does a CTC Wings student differ from say, an integrated student at OAT or FTE, or from a modular student?
Another thing I'd like some of you guys to confirm is the following. CTC have the so called "Partner Airlines". Does this mean that CTC and the partner airlines agreed (by signing a CONTRACT) so that CTC trains pilots and the partner airlines employ the CTC pilots? Or is there some other form of agreement?
Exactly, what makes the CTC programme unique, and how does a CTC Wings student differ from say, an integrated student at OAT or FTE, or from a modular student?
Another thing I'd like some of you guys to confirm is the following. CTC have the so called "Partner Airlines". Does this mean that CTC and the partner airlines agreed (by signing a CONTRACT) so that CTC trains pilots and the partner airlines employ the CTC pilots? Or is there some other form of agreement?
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Things that really make the programme different...hmmm....financing isn't too bad, unsecured loan as opposed to secured, able to cover almost all the costs, extensive sim time in the lead up to the IR, quite a few more multi hours on the a/c, and of course the big one being the tie in with the airlines.
Plus New Zealand is a beautiful country to spend the better part of a year in
Kiwi's are very laid back 
I guess for me the likelyhood of a job at the end of the training was the deciding factor, and believe me that's a big draw when you're investing all that money and time. There is a very good chance that as long as you pass the course you'll be employed and onto a type rating almost straight away. I don't believe there are many other courses around that give you that same feeling ( warm and fuzzy ), to the same extent as training with CTC.
However........
NOTHING in this game is guaranteed, and you could still be left holding the can if airline recruitment goes t:#s up whilst you're training, which could happen for very many reasons. That's the risk you always take, you've got to reconcile yourself with that before diving in.
CTC grads are pretty much the same as any flying graduate from a good flying school, as long as that school monitors and checks your progress to ensure you're maintaining high standards. We're no different to anyone else really, can't see any reason why we would be.
The training can be intense, not so much in NZ but from when you get back to the UK in particular to start JAR IR and CPL training. Expect to feel under heavy pressure at various times during your training with CTC, instructors complete progress reports on every flight and if you don't meet the required standards you will repeat required parts. There's only so many times you can do this before you get chopped, it can and has happened. I felt my CPL and IR 170A checks with CTC instructors( the flights you do prior to the actual flight with the CAA examiner ) were far more demanding than the actual flight tests, not in terms of the elements you have to complete but at the level you were expected to achieve.
I don't think anyone actually knows the EXACT arrangement between CTC and the airlines, and it doesn't really matter, CTC are a training provider, when an airline goes to CTC and requests pilots they know they are getting a certain standard, thereby reducing the risk exposure. You then become employed on a contract with the airline, not CTC.
Anyone wanting to know more feel free to pm, bear in mind i've been on the line with the big orange for about a year now so that means i'm a little more detached from what's happening with the course than i used to be. However from chatting with the new guys coming through onto the line i can see that most of the things that applied when i went through still do.
Take it easy
WBV
Plus New Zealand is a beautiful country to spend the better part of a year in
Kiwi's are very laid back I guess for me the likelyhood of a job at the end of the training was the deciding factor, and believe me that's a big draw when you're investing all that money and time. There is a very good chance that as long as you pass the course you'll be employed and onto a type rating almost straight away. I don't believe there are many other courses around that give you that same feeling ( warm and fuzzy ), to the same extent as training with CTC.
However........
NOTHING in this game is guaranteed, and you could still be left holding the can if airline recruitment goes t:#s up whilst you're training, which could happen for very many reasons. That's the risk you always take, you've got to reconcile yourself with that before diving in.
CTC grads are pretty much the same as any flying graduate from a good flying school, as long as that school monitors and checks your progress to ensure you're maintaining high standards. We're no different to anyone else really, can't see any reason why we would be.
The training can be intense, not so much in NZ but from when you get back to the UK in particular to start JAR IR and CPL training. Expect to feel under heavy pressure at various times during your training with CTC, instructors complete progress reports on every flight and if you don't meet the required standards you will repeat required parts. There's only so many times you can do this before you get chopped, it can and has happened. I felt my CPL and IR 170A checks with CTC instructors( the flights you do prior to the actual flight with the CAA examiner ) were far more demanding than the actual flight tests, not in terms of the elements you have to complete but at the level you were expected to achieve.
I don't think anyone actually knows the EXACT arrangement between CTC and the airlines, and it doesn't really matter, CTC are a training provider, when an airline goes to CTC and requests pilots they know they are getting a certain standard, thereby reducing the risk exposure. You then become employed on a contract with the airline, not CTC.
Anyone wanting to know more feel free to pm, bear in mind i've been on the line with the big orange for about a year now so that means i'm a little more detached from what's happening with the course than i used to be. However from chatting with the new guys coming through onto the line i can see that most of the things that applied when i went through still do.
Take it easy
WBV
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Thanks TommyKetch
TommyKetch,
Thank you for your post! = GREAT INFO.
I have my stage 2 test next week.
Stuart Camaron 82, all the best on Friday!
Hope to see you all in the future, doing some multi-tasking, concentrating, calculating in an Airbus, Fokker or in a Boeing
Merci!
PD.
Thank you for your post! = GREAT INFO.
I have my stage 2 test next week.
Stuart Camaron 82, all the best on Friday!
Hope to see you all in the future, doing some multi-tasking, concentrating, calculating in an Airbus, Fokker or in a Boeing
Merci!
PD.
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CTC & Uni
Hello all,
Id like to know if anyone has experience of applying to CTC during their final year at uni, with the intention of commencing training soon after graduation? This is my preference, but if people think it may act to the detriment of my application i'd probably give it a little more thought!
Cheers
T1
Id like to know if anyone has experience of applying to CTC during their final year at uni, with the intention of commencing training soon after graduation? This is my preference, but if people think it may act to the detriment of my application i'd probably give it a little more thought!
Cheers
T1
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CTC and uni
I applied for CTC while still at uni. I filled out the application form and the four faxed answers inthe April, then went for stage 2 on the friday of the first week of May, having finished my finals on the monday. It didn't harm my application.
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Does anyone have any contact numbers or names, for insurance providers to cover loss of life and class1 medical? I havnt got a clue where abouts to look for the loss of class1 insurance.
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If you've passed selection, CTC have contacts who deal with exactly the kind of thing you need. Don't worry for the moment - CTC will help you to sort it out.
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Has anyone got their phase 3 on 28th march? im reapplying as a failed at stage 3 last time. How long does it usually take between completing phase 4 and passing your medical etc to them actually getting you out to NZ?
Ziyad13
Ziyad13