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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

Old 18th Dec 2008, 00:54
  #2441 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Manchester
Age: 35
Posts: 11
I'm afraid I will have not the chance to be worried about the "Flexicrew" thing after all, so, good luck to all of you who has that chance and please, look out at the real world before complain your "terrible" situation
I see your point, in that you are desperate to fly, but I was wondering if you could help me with my maths? How many months, at a rate of 0 pounds a month, does it take to pay off a 60000 GBP debt??

The harsh reality is that people have sold their souls/body parts/futures to HSBC and need some way to pay that back. Unfortunately, for the vast majority of people, the only way that they will be able to repay this debt is through a permanent airline job. Unless Tesco has started paying 40K a year.....
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Old 18th Dec 2008, 10:46
  #2442 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
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This is crap. CTC stuff things up for other people again. They save themselves at the expense of others. If I were made redundant tomorrow then I wouldn't be able to get another permanent job because the contractors would be picked first on their lower wage and flexible terms!

Hopefully this will all be short lived - HSBC not giving funding for the wings scheme anymore (they certainly aren't going to lend £60k unsecured to someone who is going to be contracting when they graduate) means far less cadet graduates & hopefully a lot less needy graduates in the flexi scheme. When things pick up in the industry in a few years (fingers crossed) and there is a demand for pilots again then hopefully the we will be in a position to negotiate permanent positions.
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Old 20th Dec 2008, 18:26
  #2443 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southampton
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Hey Guys

Just thought I would share some info. There is a really good book I found on the internet on interview preparation. It's almost exactly the CTC interview process in a book. Dunno if it's intentional or not but I found it really useful. Called get a head for the sky. Just add .com onto the end for the site. Got me through so far! Thought I would share!

Just the sim to go!

George
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Old 20th Dec 2008, 18:55
  #2444 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
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I found the book too when I was going through CTC. Was pretty good actually. I think it is pretty safe to say it was a fairly major part of my success!!
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Old 20th Dec 2008, 19:16
  #2445 (permalink)  
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The wheels are coming off big time.

Pay £80k net to be qualified for a £20k gross a year job? The loan would cost £4k net in interest. Your real income would be roughly the same as a shop manager in Gap earning £14k a year.

Is this why you worked so hard to get an Instrument Rating for your Commercial Pilots License?


Madness.


WWW
Wee Weasley Welshman is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2008, 20:27
  #2446 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North West
Posts: 66
For those of you who think that CTC will be the best route because of their post training job placement record.
Forget it, as there are more people in the pool than they can cope with and more joining every month.
Even if you are lucky enough to get a short term placement you will hardly cover your outgoings before being back in the pool awaiting a proper job.
There are many qualified Pilots available out there and the chances of a permanent placement from CTC are fast receding.

There are other schools out there with equally good or better training standards who even now are placing pilots, so dont believe the Hype listen to WWW and others, before you choose what ever training establishment suits you best.

The benefits of CTC are fast waning, but in the next two to three years there may well be an upturn in the job market, so Good Luck to You ALL
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Old 25th Dec 2008, 12:43
  #2447 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
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Night_fr8:

There are other schools out there with equally good or better training standards who even now are placing pilots
Really? Name one.

Also, did you know that a group of CTC cadets are starting/have started on the line with Thomas Cook this month?
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Old 25th Dec 2008, 13:17
  #2448 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 433
Looking at his past posts, he put his son through OAA...so maybe he's referring to that.
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Old 25th Dec 2008, 13:35
  #2449 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Yes they have started through the flexi scheme.........which is better than nothing
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Old 26th Dec 2008, 02:32
  #2450 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
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It would be nice if people would refrain from posting on topics of which they have little or no knowledge.

Those recently taken on by TCX are not on the flexi scheme. The terms are standard cadet.
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Old 26th Dec 2008, 16:54
  #2451 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
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I agree, it would be nice if only those "with a clue" posted, but after many years of Prune reading I'm sure we're all aware that it won't ever happen.No-One placed through the Flexi Scheme yet. Merry Xmas
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Old 27th Dec 2008, 23:12
  #2452 (permalink)  
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Well, lets face it. The supply pipe is going to be VASTLY bigger than the placement pipe in 2009 so its going to be an orderly queue for a big bite of the poo sandwhich.

CTC grads are still better off than the rest of the food chain below them though. Cold comfort I know.

XL, Silverjet, Oasis and all that bollo5x was just the pre-tremor. The quake has not yet hit.


WWW
Wee Weasley Welshman is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2008, 00:58
  #2453 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Gatport
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en réponse

Why oh why...

I've have bitten my tongue for long enough now... it's just getting silly.

WWW, what was that last prediction of 'fire and brimstone' in response to, or was it just our weekly dose of your version of morbid reality?

I'll tell you this for free, you are not in a position to cast predications. Don't get me wrong, the rest of us aren't either, that's why we all sit silently (most of the time) awatching this thread, awaiting movement in the industry or economy.

The quake has not yet hit.
Blatant scare-mongery.

Let me ask you this now, are you involved with the CTC wings scheme in any particular way or is it just a little fun to scare off potential new pilots. I am just bemused by your avid interest in it. Is it easy bait to pick on pilots new who are not aware of the this industry and its sinusoidal nature?

Put yourself in the situation of the people who are already nuts deep into their training or are head down in preparation for selection. How can you possibly guarantee there will be no place for them in the industry when they complete training? I believe the answer to that would be no...

Let's get down to the nitty gritty:-
FACT: The holding pool is about 50 strong
However (commar one space)

FACT: 8 people were placed with TCX in September (merely weeks after XL and Zoom went t1ts skyward)
FACT: X people start type rating with EJ (something you should know all about apparently) on 737's in a couple of weeks.
FACT: There are upcoming EJ 737 TR's booked in 2009
FACT: Monarch have said they expect to re-recruit in 2009 the cadets they laid-off
FACT: Although EJ guys were laid off, their bonds were paid for them for 6 months whilst they either found alternative employment (which CTC helped with) or held out for return positions in the summer.
FACT: Flexi-crew is a short term solution to what we all hope to be a short term problem. However if this 'recession' proves to be more than transitory then HSBC will have to arrange different repayment options, remember thought you still have the best training in the industry and the most competent and experienced placement team behind you. Not to mention the chance of serious employment under the flexi scheme. Its just like pay-2-fly without the paying and the hatred of the entire aviation industry.

Or you could always go elsewhere, complete your training and buy a photocopier and a franking machine with your change for all the wasted CV's you'll have to send out. Only to find yourself 5 years down the line flying a washing machine, trust me, been there, seen it all.

CTC is not perfect, but you could do a hell of a lot worse.

Jerry's final thought:-
Up-to this point WWW, of reading your posts I have drawn nothing useful or constructive, merely speculative and vacuous semi-facts. Maybe its just me and my many years of experience in the industry or perhaps the delusions of moderation have gone to your head?

Is it too much to ask for a new years resolution in 'The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread' to be 'I must tell the truth' and 'I must not speculate'

Answer: Probably
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Old 30th Dec 2008, 22:19
  #2454 (permalink)  
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Ok allocate_on_arrival, here's why oh why.


WWW, what was that last prediction of 'fire and brimstone' in response to, or was it just our weekly dose of your version of morbid reality?
No it was a few minutes before midnight and my normal hesitancy was slackened by drink and merry making.


I'll tell you this for free, you are not in a position to cast predications. Don't get me wrong, the rest of us aren't either, that's why we all sit silently (most of the time) awatching this thread, awaiting movement in the industry or economy.
I'll tell you this for free, I am in a position to cast predictions because I did and they all came true. Bottom line. If you want to be a pundit then you live and die by your predictions. At the moment I make Robert Preston look like my understudy. That's a cocky statement but it is true. I have bragging rights.

Quote:
The quake has not yet hit.
Blatant scare-mongery.

No. Totally true. We have has the tremours like Woolies. The main shocks are coming in 2009. It might be scary but its no mongery.

Let me ask you this now, are you involved with the CTC wings scheme in any particular way or is it just a little fun to scare off potential new pilots. I am just bemused by your avid interest in it. Is it easy bait to pick on pilots new who are not aware of the this industry and its sinusoidal nature?
No the only involvement I have is with flying with many of the Wings cadets. As such I know what has happened and what is happening. Sinusoidal? Is that mentioned on AIRLINE PILOT TRAINING ?

Put yourself in the situation of the people who are already nuts deep into their training or are head down in preparation for selection. How can you possibly guarantee there will be no place for them in the industry when they complete training? I believe the answer to that would be no...
Put yourself in the situation of the people who are already nuts deep into the application process or 'selection' and who are about to commit financial suicide. How can you possibly guarantee there will be a place for them in the industry when they complete training? I believe the answer to that would be no...


Let's get down to the nitty gritty:-
FACT: The holding pool is about 50 strong
However (commar one space)
My big hairy arse it is.

FACT: 8 people were placed with TCX in September (merely weeks after XL and Zoom went t1ts skyward)
FACT: X people start type rating with EJ (something you should know all about apparently) on 737's in a couple of weeks.
FACT: There are upcoming EJ 737 TR's booked in 2009
FACT: Monarch have said they expect to re-recruit in 2009 the cadets they laid-off
FACT: Although EJ guys were laid off, their bonds were paid for them for 6 months whilst they either found alternative employment (which CTC helped with) or held out for return positions in the summer.
FACT: Flexi-crew is a short term solution to what we all hope to be a short term problem. However if this 'recession' proves to be more than transitory then HSBC will have to arrange different repayment options, remember thought you still have the best training in the industry and the most competent and experienced placement team behind you. Not to mention the chance of serious employment under the flexi scheme. Its just like pay-2-fly without the paying and the hatred of the entire aviation industry.
There are hundreds HUNDREDS of CTC cadets either graduated in the pool, returned to the pool, in New Zealand or about to go to New Zealand. Applications, Interviews and Selection days continue.

Or you could always go elsewhere, complete your training and buy a photocopier and a franking machine with your change for all the wasted CV's you'll have to send out. Only to find yourself 5 years down the line flying a washing machine, trust me, been there, seen it all.

CTC is not perfect, but you could do a hell of a lot worse.
Yeah, I said that last week on this thread.

Jerry's final thought:-
Up-to this point WWW, of reading your posts I have drawn nothing useful or constructive, merely speculative and vacuous semi-facts. Maybe its just me and my many years of experience in the industry or perhaps the delusions of moderation have gone to your head?

Weasleys final thought:-

Do you have 10,000hrs, are you a Captain, have you moderated this forum for a decade, have you instructed both Modular and Integrated students and are you totally unconnected from the flying training industry and here MERELY for the benefit of Wannabes?

Is it too much to ask for a new years resolution in 'The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread' to be 'I must tell the truth' and 'I must not speculate'
Your cadets will be going bankrupt by the dozen. That's the bottom line.

Answer: Probably.

Are we clear?

WWW
Wee Weasley Welshman is offline  
Old 30th Dec 2008, 22:28
  #2455 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
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CTC must be getting a little worried. All that capital investment needs to be oiled by the loans obtained by those cadets.

As for the flexi scheme, I personally find it an appalling precedent. And as for the EZY courses - are there not enough suitably qualified ex-FOs from XL and others, or is just the fact that CTC are responsible for devaluing the profession as a whole by flooding it with free workers?
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Old 30th Dec 2008, 22:37
  #2456 (permalink)  
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I can only pass on the comments made by others that FlexiWings is just a means of delaying cadets from going bankrupt whilst stealing promotions from serving senior First Officers who will be offered summer commands covered by FlexiWings FO's.


If you want a prediction it will be this. Things will turn nasty in 2009 and posters here will be ripping lumps out of each other.


WWW
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Old 30th Dec 2008, 22:59
  #2457 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Age: 37
Posts: 8
As someone who recently completed the Wings selection, I must say I have always found WWWs contribution to this thread very helpful.
Although there is a lot of useful stuff to be found on this thread for any aspiring CTC cadet I’d hardly call it a balanced discussion.
Personally I think we are quite lucky to get tailored impartial opinions from someone with his credentials. Makes a change from the rose tinted monotony that makes up 80% of this thread.

I for one hope he continues too contribute.
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Old 30th Dec 2008, 23:19
  #2458 (permalink)  
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All words of encouragement are gratefully received!

WWW
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Old 31st Dec 2008, 02:28
  #2459 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Posts: 28
So it seems some of you will get jobs, some of you wont, I know if all of you keep at it you will ALL get jobs eventually. There is no way CTC can promise anything at the moment. In this industry it hard enough to get a job when the market is buoyant let alone when it is as turbulent as it is now. All one can do is consolidate the time one has at ones disposal by making sure your as focused as you can be. I noticed on the previous page there was a reference to getaheadforthesky dot com, I used this book when I was considering the CTC AQC Wings scheme two and a half years ago and it filled me with the confidence I would need to pass the various stages. As it happened I never went for the scheme and became a flying instructor but used the book to help me get thru the subsequent interviews with another airline... and got the job! Get your hands on this book and become the best you can be, its time and money well spent! Highly recommended. Good luck to everyone and hang in there!

Last edited by IDENTING; 31st Dec 2008 at 02:39.
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Old 31st Dec 2008, 13:47
  #2460 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: BHX-MAN-EMA
Posts: 178
CTC will NOT be able to place all in their holding pool and those about to join.
The industry has long taken the cheap labour supplied by CTC and ultimately employed most of them, but now the winds of change are sweeping through the world economies and for people to believe the CTC hype they will be sorely mistaken.
The benefits of CTC of yesteryear are fading fast, Unsecured Loans, Readily available jobs are now a thing of the past.

If your only idea in training with CTC is their job placement record, then don't join solely on that premise, you will be disappointed in the next couple of years.

There is one I know in the holding pool awaiting that job who has been out of work over a year, and because they were not a full course student is waiting in line behind those coming through.
Can you afford to wait over a year ?

CTC are now no different to other large training establishments, but the market will upturn in 2010 so make your choice carefully.
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