Ryanair
Join Date: Nov 2005
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So can the IALPA rep provide any evidence of cases being pursued through the courts and being successfully won by FR or is it just the usual scare tactics that they seem to employ?
Join Date: Jul 2006
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You gotta be nucking futs, desperate, or stupid to work for this sham!!
ONE GIANT CON with guys strapped over an almighty barrel!!
ONE GIANT CON with guys strapped over an almighty barrel!!
Last edited by SinBin; 31st May 2007 at 10:13.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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If you don't like Ryanair - simply don't join Ryanair - it is a free market.
Lots of the real old timers like me operate on a Brookfield contract for Ryanair . The rates I was told by them tonight are increasing in June. New cadets for first 500 hours will be on EURO 60.00 per sched block hour less EURO 4.50. It then I think goes upto EURO 80. No FO in FlyBe will earn EURO 80 per hour.
I legally and carefully pay my taxes in Ireland and there are huge expenses I can easily offset against my income through Brookfields. I think the whole thing needs to be sold a lot better to the new young starters.
Lots of the real old timers like me operate on a Brookfield contract for Ryanair . The rates I was told by them tonight are increasing in June. New cadets for first 500 hours will be on EURO 60.00 per sched block hour less EURO 4.50. It then I think goes upto EURO 80. No FO in FlyBe will earn EURO 80 per hour.
I legally and carefully pay my taxes in Ireland and there are huge expenses I can easily offset against my income through Brookfields. I think the whole thing needs to be sold a lot better to the new young starters.
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Good point
potkettleblack:
So can the IALPA rep provide any evidence of cases being pursued through the courts and being successfully won by FR or is it just the usual scare tactics that they seem to employ?
I believe they do, 4 or so, but even so who are we going to get to trial it? Wonderful outside looking in, but who's there to open the door, that's what colleagues are for I guess. In my experience pilots aren't particularly good friends when it comes to industrial action, we are all there for ourselves and b*%ger the rest of them.
Thanks for your input though, much appreciated.
potkettleblack:
So can the IALPA rep provide any evidence of cases being pursued through the courts and being successfully won by FR or is it just the usual scare tactics that they seem to employ?
I believe they do, 4 or so, but even so who are we going to get to trial it? Wonderful outside looking in, but who's there to open the door, that's what colleagues are for I guess. In my experience pilots aren't particularly good friends when it comes to industrial action, we are all there for ourselves and b*%ger the rest of them.
Thanks for your input though, much appreciated.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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"No FO in FlyBe will earn EURO 80 per hour. "
When I was a year 2 Q400 F/O in Flybe I flew 600 hours and was paid about 80 Euros per hour including flight pay. On top of this were the usual benefits of a pension fund and medicals paid for by the company. (not to mention a base I wanted)
Please do not compare Flybe, which is in no way perfect, to the sham that is Ryanair.
Please do not compare Flybe, which is in no way perfect, to the sham that is Ryanair.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Enjoy the view
It seems things are somewhat not what they seem now. I was incorrectly informed about the training bonds and would like to appologise. What IS the case now is as written:-
What i mentioned that you were bonded for the 150 Euro per sector for 2 years. This is only the case if you did your line training whilst on a Brookfield contract. If you do line training under the Ryanair contract, and after line trianing take a Brookfield, then the line training bond on the Training contract is voided, as is the base check costs.
The other thing is the £2500 payable if you go from Brookfield to Ryanair. This is only if you were a cadet under the Brookfield contract, and then offered an FO position at Ryanair. It is not for if you go from Ryanair cadet to Brookfield then back to Ryanair.
With regards to Brookfield contract, (and i have spend along time checking this out)
-Bonded or not bonded?
Only bonded if you did your line training under Brookfield. If you did your line training under the 6 month training contract with Ryanair then transfer after line check complete, there is no bond, only a month notice to leave working period.
-Base assigned? Or floating around?
There are floating contracts, but they are issued as and when they need people to fill the places. You will be offered and told that it is Dublin, and maybe if you talk nicely to the right people, or its the right time, you get a floating one.
-Roster?
Fixed base is 5 on 4 off late, then 5 on 4 off early.
Floating is 5 on 5 off and you stay in one base for each 5 day block.
Normally there is a max of 1 standby per 5 on block.
-Number of hours flown?
most Brookfield guys do 75-85 hours per month, this is so you fly 900 hours throughout the full 12 months.
Just be aware though, you fly the hours they want, and it is written that they can change rosters and flying days, and no hours means no money
-Gross salary per hour? (is it 40.5 eur or 55.5 eur now?)
They have just had a new pay deal. Under 500 hours jet time = 60 Euro per hour (minus 4.5 recurrency)
If you are floating you get an extra 20 Euro per hour
If you have been with Brookfield for 3 months, or have 500 hours jet time or more, then it is 80 Euro per hour (Minus 4.5 recurrency)
-How is the money received? (euro/sterling account?, continental europe or Irish/UK bank?)
It is paid into a Euro bank account and you can get one of these from the bank of dublin in dublin airport apparently.
-Tax benefits of the system? (ideally for Irish, British and Continental europeans)
You are resposible for all your own tax as Brookfield class you as self employed. You must do tax returns at the end of the year. All expenses are payable by you. (however there are tax perks to this as in your salery can so small after 'expenses' that you pay very little tax). Tax is payable in the country of your choice and residence. But you need to talk to a Pro about that.
-Any comment on why he has accepted the offer? Or why it should not be accepted?
Most people take the Brookfield contract because they are not offered anything else. Ryanair are taking 1 jet per week and are doing 300-400 738 type rating this year, but apparently have no positions for Ryanair contracted pilots.
I hope this has pretty much covered everything that you were looking for.
It seems things are somewhat not what they seem now. I was incorrectly informed about the training bonds and would like to appologise. What IS the case now is as written:-
What i mentioned that you were bonded for the 150 Euro per sector for 2 years. This is only the case if you did your line training whilst on a Brookfield contract. If you do line training under the Ryanair contract, and after line trianing take a Brookfield, then the line training bond on the Training contract is voided, as is the base check costs.
The other thing is the £2500 payable if you go from Brookfield to Ryanair. This is only if you were a cadet under the Brookfield contract, and then offered an FO position at Ryanair. It is not for if you go from Ryanair cadet to Brookfield then back to Ryanair.
With regards to Brookfield contract, (and i have spend along time checking this out)
-Bonded or not bonded?
Only bonded if you did your line training under Brookfield. If you did your line training under the 6 month training contract with Ryanair then transfer after line check complete, there is no bond, only a month notice to leave working period.
-Base assigned? Or floating around?
There are floating contracts, but they are issued as and when they need people to fill the places. You will be offered and told that it is Dublin, and maybe if you talk nicely to the right people, or its the right time, you get a floating one.
-Roster?
Fixed base is 5 on 4 off late, then 5 on 4 off early.
Floating is 5 on 5 off and you stay in one base for each 5 day block.
Normally there is a max of 1 standby per 5 on block.
-Number of hours flown?
most Brookfield guys do 75-85 hours per month, this is so you fly 900 hours throughout the full 12 months.
Just be aware though, you fly the hours they want, and it is written that they can change rosters and flying days, and no hours means no money
-Gross salary per hour? (is it 40.5 eur or 55.5 eur now?)
They have just had a new pay deal. Under 500 hours jet time = 60 Euro per hour (minus 4.5 recurrency)
If you are floating you get an extra 20 Euro per hour
If you have been with Brookfield for 3 months, or have 500 hours jet time or more, then it is 80 Euro per hour (Minus 4.5 recurrency)
-How is the money received? (euro/sterling account?, continental europe or Irish/UK bank?)
It is paid into a Euro bank account and you can get one of these from the bank of dublin in dublin airport apparently.
-Tax benefits of the system? (ideally for Irish, British and Continental europeans)
You are resposible for all your own tax as Brookfield class you as self employed. You must do tax returns at the end of the year. All expenses are payable by you. (however there are tax perks to this as in your salery can so small after 'expenses' that you pay very little tax). Tax is payable in the country of your choice and residence. But you need to talk to a Pro about that.
-Any comment on why he has accepted the offer? Or why it should not be accepted?
Most people take the Brookfield contract because they are not offered anything else. Ryanair are taking 1 jet per week and are doing 300-400 738 type rating this year, but apparently have no positions for Ryanair contracted pilots.
I hope this has pretty much covered everything that you were looking for.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Ok, can I get an honest totally transparent answer to one question? I have a friend who is just finishing off his CPL/IR, he wanted to join the turbo prop operator I am going to be working for but they aren't recruiting and my future boss isn't really a big fan of the various training schools that my friend has trained at, particulary because it's all a bit of a mish-mash of conversions and different FTOs.
Anyway, my old buddy has for some reason set his heart on flying for FR. Now, how is he going to get an interview? He's talking of doing his MCC in Sweden on this Ryanair approved course. If he does that is he guaranteed an interview?? In reality how hard is it to get into the airline?
Personal I'm keeping my job that I signed the contract for prior to training, but he isn't as fortunate.
Is it really a case of if you have to money you can get the job with FR?
Anyway, my old buddy has for some reason set his heart on flying for FR. Now, how is he going to get an interview? He's talking of doing his MCC in Sweden on this Ryanair approved course. If he does that is he guaranteed an interview?? In reality how hard is it to get into the airline?
Personal I'm keeping my job that I signed the contract for prior to training, but he isn't as fortunate.
Is it really a case of if you have to money you can get the job with FR?
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Brookfield Pay per hour
Regarding the 80 Euro per hour.
This is the information i was given by the Manager Flight Ops at Ryanair recently.
The pay deal was agreed during may, and according to Manager Flight Ops, Brookfield pilots will be contacted during the next few weeks to confirm the pay deal.
If this is not the case, then once again many pilots at Ryanair have been lied to by the senior management.
Possibley further proof of what the organisation could be like.....?
This is the information i was given by the Manager Flight Ops at Ryanair recently.
The pay deal was agreed during may, and according to Manager Flight Ops, Brookfield pilots will be contacted during the next few weeks to confirm the pay deal.
If this is not the case, then once again many pilots at Ryanair have been lied to by the senior management.
Possibley further proof of what the organisation could be like.....?
Join Date: Jun 2002
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In reality how hard is it to get into the airline?
As for the MCC in Sweden, this seems like a good option, should you get recommended via SAS the you do not have to do the Sim check, just pass the interview, out of the group I know of about 35% were put forward, all passed the interview.
YYZ
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Boys and girls, join Ryanair, if you must. What is said in this thread however, is true in general. I am with the company for three years now, done my command, and still paying back for the next two years at least. Type rating, waiting for 6+ months to the start of line training, hotel etc. costs, then the command training and so on cost me about 35000 Euros. My salary has gone down by 600 Pounds per month in the last 6 months, just by the way the company rosters me and changes scheduled block times and lowers the sector pay that way.
The money for a captain is OK, however I now depend on it. The roster is very demanding and I am totally knockered all the time. If I leave now, i.e. in the two years after my command, I will have to pay back a bond of 4500 GBP.
Be aware that you sign away your soul for longer than you think.
Anyway, it's your life, and people who have got the job tend to forget how horrible it was without it. At the end of the day, we all live.
The most important message I have got for you:
Join IALPA, BALPA or any other union and sign up for the REPA webpage.
Believe me, sooner or later most of you will need legal advice. You don't have to be active, but be a part of our struggle to improve the place we would like to like.
All the best,
Z.
The money for a captain is OK, however I now depend on it. The roster is very demanding and I am totally knockered all the time. If I leave now, i.e. in the two years after my command, I will have to pay back a bond of 4500 GBP.
Be aware that you sign away your soul for longer than you think.
Anyway, it's your life, and people who have got the job tend to forget how horrible it was without it. At the end of the day, we all live.
The most important message I have got for you:
Join IALPA, BALPA or any other union and sign up for the REPA webpage.
Believe me, sooner or later most of you will need legal advice. You don't have to be active, but be a part of our struggle to improve the place we would like to like.
All the best,
Z.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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amaraJ
With all due repect, you could've spent GBP260 in better ways. The interview was no resemblance to a harder interview, and for 20-30mins flying in the sim.
I can see where you are coming from, but ensure that you do not base the Ryanair interview as standard.
Maybe look at an interview prep course, or an hour in a sim.
Anyway, good luck with both.
With all due repect, you could've spent GBP260 in better ways. The interview was no resemblance to a harder interview, and for 20-30mins flying in the sim.
I can see where you are coming from, but ensure that you do not base the Ryanair interview as standard.
Maybe look at an interview prep course, or an hour in a sim.
Anyway, good luck with both.
