Ground employment (Operations or Dispatch) - leading to a flying job?

[Maple 01]

Hope this is the right forum to ask, if not can a mod move it to the correct one please? 40 year old ex-RAF Radar/Int recently de-mobbed on health grounds (nothing serious, RAF don't like diabetics) missing working near aircraft. Minimal line experience but keen and willing to work for peanuts if it gets me in with any aviation related ground job – any hints and tips? One problem, stuck in Norwich

[ali1]

Hi there,

I would go along to norwich airport with a CV. I'm sure they'll have a handling company or their maybe jobs available in ops for some of the small airlines based there. Also might be jobs available refuelling etc.

All the best

Ali1

[FLIGHTA1]

Any advice...Flight Operations Internship

Hello, am a wannabe graduating soon, and i am looking for an internship in Europe. Anyone know requirements, where i might start looking or asking? thanks!
Upon graduation i will have CPL with instrument and multiengine rating. I would prefer a flight operations internship at a regional/corporate airline. I will also be graduating with a degree in Aviation Management. I am not picky!

Edited by Scroggs to delinate this post from his previously identical one in Wannabes

[Re-Heat]

What exactly are you looking for? You appear to be from the USA, therefore you would need the right to live and work here first. Secondly, are you a qualified grauate pilot, plain graduate from a university, looking for ground ops, flight deck or what?

Clarify and someone may be able to help.

[FLIGHTA1]

Any advice... low-hours pilot or Flight Operations Internship?

Hello, am a wannabe graduating soon, and i am looking for an internship or low hour recruitment in Europe.Anyone know requirements, where i might start looking or asking? thanks!
Upon graduation i will have CPL with instrument and multiengine rating. I would prefer a flight operations internship or recruitment at a regional/corporate airline. I will also be graduating with a degree in Aviation Management. I am not picky, anything that will get me to the airlines as FO!

[scroggs]

'Internships' do not exist in Europe, at least not in any way that you would understand them in the USA. You are either employed or you are not. If you wish to work within a European airline, in whatever capacity, you will need to be fully qualified for the job you aspire to. That will include (for a pilot) having the right to live and work within the EU, having a JAA Class 1 medical, and having the correct JAA licences.

You will have to explain further your qualifications before you can get any useful advice.

Scroggs

PS And don't multiple post on this forum. Your post on Operations has been edited.

[NG-dude]

Also realise that you're putting yourself smack in the same situation that most new european pilots are in after completing their training. I'd say by leaving the U.S to fight for a job in europe you're making it much harder for yourself. The CPL > CFI > Regional > major airline route is still very much viable in america. In europe expect a bond or self-funded rating at the least and if you don't have your JAA cert. and medical plus work permit then you're really heading for trouble. I'd stay put personally.

[Stpaul]

Stay in the states, I agree with the above, there is a clearly defined and well worked route to getting a job, plus there are lots of employers recruiting.Its soooooooooooo much easier than over here.

You will have a big problem with getting work in Europe unless you have an European passport or work visa.

If it was easy all you lot would be over here and all the european pilots with around 1000+ hours will be going over there.

There is another problem americans have with travelling over here.......none of you own a passport!

[FLIGHTA1]

Thanks for the advice, i thought it was going to be easier there but it sounds tougher. So what are the average hours required for the regional airlines? I thought hour requirements were much less in Europe especially if you go throught accelerated training.
By the way I do own a passport, I am not an american, and i don't have the right to work and live in the E.U. Isn't the process easier if you get a job first, then process the paper work?

[wbryce]

If there was no demand for the job then yes but unfortunately the catch22 for you is that most employers list as a requirement "right to work and live in the EU"....fail to meet this they will most likely not look further into your application.

[FLIGHTA1]

So does anyone do or has any experince with internships/attachments? And are flight instructors in demand?

[mightymouse111]

No right to live in the UK....no job! (enough people here fighting for work without employers worring about others!)

Definately not the other way around!

You would be an idiot to leave America with their system and come over here!

Waste of time for you discussing further! Sorry!

[SuperDuperFLY]

Ground employment - leading to a flying job?

...So obviously recruitment in ops starts in 2007, and it seems it would be hard to get a look in before that (although I havent YET tried).
My situation is that, I'm looking to work airside, love early mornings, love the cold, love being within close proximity to any a/c. I have 3 languages, and a Bsc. I'll have a PPL, IMC, NR, Multi by Jan (yes I am being cheap= USA)... and NO former aviation employment!
I want to work as much as possible to learn new things and get my size 10's in the door (ATPL wanabee). Looking to work for >10 months.
......here is the Q:
In this case, what is a better option, apply to those airlines that hire from within/allow ladder climbing [eg BMI]... or stick to places like Servisair whos requirments are less stringent?
I dont care about pay as its only approx. 1 year, I just want to learn and meet. I'm not a fan of CV bashing and want to focus on 2 or 3 companies.
PS: who ELSE, apart from BMI have been known to hire from within to FO positions?....sorry for being LONG!

[paulriggers]

Don't want to hijack too much but along the same lines, how does a career in air traffic set you up for a flying job, anyone tread that path before, do employers like it?

[Penworth]

I know people who were offered interviews/sim rides with My Travel as a result of already working for them. They only seem to recruit in small numbers though.

PW

[rocketboots]

Don`t bother with BA.Their are good people i know within the airline who have all the qualifications for the job and more,i.e also fully licensed ground engineers on Boeing and Airbuses,flight engineers licences oh and of course the cpl/ir frozen ATPL. They have worked for the company on average for 15 years and have been told under no circumstances will they get a sniff.Person in charge of this would rather take a chance on some young kid straight out of an intergrated course.Heard all the tosh about continuity of training blah,blah blah.

[Lucifer]

Originally Posted by rocketboots

Heard all the tosh about continuity of training blah,blah blah.

It is not tosh - BA have taken and do take some few modular. They have in the past had extremely large problems with some of those not being able to cope with the pressure, requiring further expensive training, and as a result will only touch those with one clear training record completed in minimum time. Remember that exceptions prove the rule - they too will take an exceptional modular candidate if that is demonstrated to them, but don't make life hard for yourself.

Ladder climbing is more likely in smaller operations rather than large bureaucracies, however take a commercial flying job wherever you are able, and don't limit your options as you could focus on the wrong 2 or 3, else you will struggle.

[rocketboots]

In actual fact i think you will find that a large amount of pilots within BA come from the modular route and fly quite happily without buckling under the pressure???????.However they were employed before the current regime were put in place.Don`t get me wrong,the chance of doing a fully intergrated course all nipped in the bud in the shortest time is great, but at the end of the day we are not all as fortunate as otherS to do this. The bottom line is that we all have to sit the same ground exams and fly the same flight tests.In this no quater is given and therefore lmplying that intergrated training holds a higher degree of learning than that of modular is tosh.This is getting off the thread somewhat and so in summary to the original question yes join an airline, you may get lucky, especially at a smaller outfit.

[Lucifer]

Off topic I know, but experienced hires - yes there are modular in BA.
Those without an unfrozen ATPL - situation is as I said and has been so for over a decade.

Regarding sitting the same exams - not the point. Read scroggs' post at http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=244158

Not to mention that you have totally contradicted yourself within two posts.

Originally Posted by rocketboots

In actual fact i think you will find that a large amount of pilots within BA come from the modular route and fly quite happily without buckling under the pressure

and

Originally Posted by rocketboots

Person in charge of this would rather take a chance on some young kid straight out of an intergrated course.

[rocketboots]

Note
Hired before the current regime.Hence no contradiction.