Loganair
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
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Well said Luke Skytoddler!
I now no-longer work for the company and thankfully didn't experience the present Flight Ops Management, unfortunatley, this is a classic example of the standard of management at the bottom of the food chain! This management have, in the past few months, made some pretty big errors in recruitment I understand and this latest plan could be a fall out from their very poor judgement...
Loganair is a fantastic airline with the best flying in Europe in my opinion and some great guys to work with, but avoid this scheme at all costs - i'm sure most guys have worked out it just ain't worth it!
Loganair is a fantastic airline with the best flying in Europe in my opinion and some great guys to work with, but avoid this scheme at all costs - i'm sure most guys have worked out it just ain't worth it!
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Essex
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Flight training is definately not returning to the days of the good old BA sponsorship and a like and it is a great shame.
I am willing to pay for a type rating when I can find the money, sorry if I annoy god knows how many, but at the same time have my reservations on pilot pay.
Let's face it the airlines have it easy these days - ok may be a few problems in place with terroism. They are low budget, don't have to worry about the thrills anymore for short flights - hey no cooked meal - no free drinks etc, no paying for pilot training or even cabin crew training with some airlines. They are really bringing in the bucks as to yesterday.
One has to ask the question, if the pilots are prepared to put themselves in upto to £70+ worth of detb for the airlines profits. You'd hope the airlines would give back slightly more in the way of salary 'fair's fair', although business is not fair. For instance, if Loganair now wants all there FOs to pay for the type rating, they could at least say that the annual salary will rise from 22K per year to 24K, it's marginal and they are in profit to previous years.
I know people may think this is a dead end argument, but it would be really nice to see this attitude applied. It may take the sting out of a lots of peoples throats. Sames goes with Ryanair, their pay is good after a few years, but that first year is sickening for people with loans to pay off. I am someone who can see the long term investment and will consider Ryan, but at the same time I don't think it is pruely fair. **** happens, struggle through!
I am willing to pay for a type rating when I can find the money, sorry if I annoy god knows how many, but at the same time have my reservations on pilot pay.
Let's face it the airlines have it easy these days - ok may be a few problems in place with terroism. They are low budget, don't have to worry about the thrills anymore for short flights - hey no cooked meal - no free drinks etc, no paying for pilot training or even cabin crew training with some airlines. They are really bringing in the bucks as to yesterday.
One has to ask the question, if the pilots are prepared to put themselves in upto to £70+ worth of detb for the airlines profits. You'd hope the airlines would give back slightly more in the way of salary 'fair's fair', although business is not fair. For instance, if Loganair now wants all there FOs to pay for the type rating, they could at least say that the annual salary will rise from 22K per year to 24K, it's marginal and they are in profit to previous years.
I know people may think this is a dead end argument, but it would be really nice to see this attitude applied. It may take the sting out of a lots of peoples throats. Sames goes with Ryanair, their pay is good after a few years, but that first year is sickening for people with loans to pay off. I am someone who can see the long term investment and will consider Ryan, but at the same time I don't think it is pruely fair. **** happens, struggle through!
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dundee, Scotland
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Worth noting that the pilots that were taken on having bought type ratings had not had to pay for their training up until then - that was state sponsored - so they aren't actually £70k in debt. Doesn't help you if you are from the UK though.
Join Date: May 2006
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hi there everybody,
how are the new entry terms working out for loganair?
is anyone accepting them and paying for their own rating as per the terms stated in thread?
it's supply and demand as far as pilot recruitment goes and loganair must think that there is more supply than demand at moment.
perhaps they are right......or
perhaps they have not heard about flybe announcing publicly that they will be recruiting 10 new pilots every month for the next 2 years for their new dash 8 q400's.
plenty other demand predicted by other airlines such as easyjet and ryanair as well so the market looks quite dynamic.
straightlevel
how are the new entry terms working out for loganair?
is anyone accepting them and paying for their own rating as per the terms stated in thread?
it's supply and demand as far as pilot recruitment goes and loganair must think that there is more supply than demand at moment.
perhaps they are right......or
perhaps they have not heard about flybe announcing publicly that they will be recruiting 10 new pilots every month for the next 2 years for their new dash 8 q400's.
plenty other demand predicted by other airlines such as easyjet and ryanair as well so the market looks quite dynamic.
straightlevel
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Since i've lived in Scotland since birth my first choice location to work is here, north of the border!
Logan was always an operator on top of my list since it keeps me in my native land!
After training completion I fear the logan route will be out of the window for me as I can't justify that cost to their wages. If all companies are forcing us to pay for type ratings then I would rather prostitue myself with a jet operator...albeit I would love to do some real flying for a while and remain in familiar grounds.
I still have a year or so before fatpl completion so I hope logan shoot themselves in the foot and realise what they are asking for is unrealistic. Sadly I think this is chasing away a good level of candidates as well as potential employees with a strong background in Scotland like myself.
Schemes like this are pushing us guys who can't really afford the TR route to look up and down the country rather than stay locally which is a shame...as I would prefer not too.
Logan was always an operator on top of my list since it keeps me in my native land!
After training completion I fear the logan route will be out of the window for me as I can't justify that cost to their wages. If all companies are forcing us to pay for type ratings then I would rather prostitue myself with a jet operator...albeit I would love to do some real flying for a while and remain in familiar grounds.
I still have a year or so before fatpl completion so I hope logan shoot themselves in the foot and realise what they are asking for is unrealistic. Sadly I think this is chasing away a good level of candidates as well as potential employees with a strong background in Scotland like myself.
Schemes like this are pushing us guys who can't really afford the TR route to look up and down the country rather than stay locally which is a shame...as I would prefer not too.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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A reasonable question! i would imagine so, although twotter recruitment is very rare, and rumours of its demise are always around.
Probably the only aircraft in the UK more obsolete then the SF340 though!!!
Probably the only aircraft in the UK more obsolete then the SF340 though!!!
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Decisions Decisions!
DB6
And what if you have already been instructing for a few years, so the 6k isn't an option anymore.
Is the decision literally 'Pay 18k for an old turbo prop or a similar amount for a jet' ?
Depressing! That means I would have spent 24k in total.
Although the instructing is great fun and excellent at getting you some great experience, it may well work out as being the more expensive path.
IH
Now let me see......do I find another £18,000 from somewhere, £12,000 of which I will not see again, to buy a type rating on a fairly old turboprop so that I might get a job paying about £22,000 a year flying about 400 hours, or do I buy a type rating on a jet for a similar amount with a similar chance of a job but paying rather more and flying rather more, or do I spend £6,000 on an instructor rating and get some experience and some money coming in or........? Life is full of decisions, Grasshopper, but some are easier than others 
.
.Is the decision literally 'Pay 18k for an old turbo prop or a similar amount for a jet' ?
Depressing! That means I would have spent 24k in total.
Although the instructing is great fun and excellent at getting you some great experience, it may well work out as being the more expensive path.
IH
Join Date: Sep 2006
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If you can afford it, do it, if you can't, dont, and stop complaining as this is gonna be a part of our industry for the forseable future.
Opportunities may open up elsewhere for you if not, but it may be the best 12k you'll ever spend. Loganair is the BEST first job in the country.FACT!
FB
Opportunities may open up elsewhere for you if not, but it may be the best 12k you'll ever spend. Loganair is the BEST first job in the country.FACT!
FB
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bonny Scotland
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If you can afford it, don't do it! You might be better off long term saving up a little more and buying a jet rating which in theory will open more doors to you.
Loganair maybe used to be one of the better first jobs in the industry, but not anymore, POSSIBLY A FACT!
Loganair maybe used to be one of the better first jobs in the industry, but not anymore, POSSIBLY A FACT!
Join Date: Aug 2001
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I seem to remember Eastern taking a lot of Scandinavians for the very same reason, ie TR paid for by their country. It bit them in the a
e in the long run though, as those same people were off the second a jet job came along, owing Eastern nothing and causing massive turnover in crew. Not sure if they are so keen on it anymore.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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With great sadness I read this thread. After completing my CPL/IR I held out great hope of getting a job with Loganair. I sent my CV in through contacts etc, even my friends did, but got nothing back. Some got the reply due to retraining of the Otter, Islander fleet they would not be recruiting for a while so I let things go. I applied for other jobs and eventualy went through *** and got a job with a jet opperator in the **. Now i read the website of an integrated school on the continent about students and "connections" with Loganair that really annoys me. There are many instructors and studes in this country that would give their arm to fly for Loganair, some would spend the rest of their careers there. It is no longer Scotlands airline. If Logan recuited the right guys they would not need to charge pilots for TR and they would not have such a large turnover... Grrr! 
Is it Islae or Isla (pronunciation)
Is it Islae or Isla (pronunciation)
Last edited by nosewheelfirst; 24th Sep 2006 at 03:44.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Banter I was talking about pronunciation of Islay but thats not really what I was getting at. Im just annoyed at the direction that Loganair have gone down with paying for TR etc, too much wine this pm just my honest opinion.
Last edited by nosewheelfirst; 23rd Sep 2006 at 21:47.
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Since Loganair's wonderful new idea in mid-July, when they decided to get new pilots to pay for their type rating and line training, has anyone accepted and started training / working yet?
I've heard that they aren't recruiting again until next year, yet I thought this was a typical TP operator recruiting a couple of pilots every month or so???
Also hearing rumours about a connection with FTE, Jerez - is there one, and do those students pay for their ratings as well?
If they do recruit about 15 - 20 pilots a year, surely this means that people are accepting the new terms every month!
IH
I've heard that they aren't recruiting again until next year, yet I thought this was a typical TP operator recruiting a couple of pilots every month or so???
Also hearing rumours about a connection with FTE, Jerez - is there one, and do those students pay for their ratings as well?
If they do recruit about 15 - 20 pilots a year, surely this means that people are accepting the new terms every month!
IH
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Personally I think the intergrated guys in southern Spain would probably be hanging on for a jet position, for certain if they are expected to pay....
If rumours are anything to go by from the inside, I understand LOG will be hit hard in the new year with many Capts/FOs heading to Globespan and Thomas Cook! So desperation may dictate that all this "Buying SF340 Ratings" mayhem may change....
If rumours are anything to go by from the inside, I understand LOG will be hit hard in the new year with many Capts/FOs heading to Globespan and Thomas Cook! So desperation may dictate that all this "Buying SF340 Ratings" mayhem may change....