New Sponsorship (ish) scheme OAT
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Originally Posted by Mooney12
A lot of CTC Ezy cadets have left Ezy after 6months - 1 year and gone BA DEP.....They are definately better off!!
1. How long are (were) the CTC Ezy cadets 'tied in' on a reduced salary/ gross salary loan repayment period at easy?
2. Are they still offering the scheme unaltered if loads leave?
I cannot believe that easy will be happy with this 'ideal' scheme if it not having the desired effect of locking pilots in for a number of years cheap labour.
If you have found a fatal flaw in the system, then great, but it still doesn't get away from the fact that if you train modular, save a fortune and apply for direct entry TCUK, Easy or whoever, you will still be better off 7 years later. The market is improving considerably this year and next year should be bumper. If things hold together and everyone keeps expanding into 2008, then the newly qualified frozen ATPL holder should have comparatively little problem getting a job. It's all a gamble, whichever route you choose, but becoming a professional pilot usually involves NOT being a risk taker.
PP
Originally Posted by mad_jock
If anything goes wrong with your training / thompson change there mind. Usually they way they say it works is ( And this is a general comment nothing to do with the above course its used in quite a few industrys)
Originally Posted by mad_jock
Basically money will get shifted around from a loan to yourself which will be payed to the company who is sponsering you. They will pay the company training you, of course claiming back vat and offseting the costs against corporation tax so in real terms it will actually cost them 50% of what we would pay. You of course won't get to see a penny of this money...
...So the bank gets 20k in interest. The training company get there usual profit plus what ever they make on the increase in demand for charging for assment days. And the company sponsoring gets 20k profit.
...So the bank gets 20k in interest. The training company get there usual profit plus what ever they make on the increase in demand for charging for assment days. And the company sponsoring gets 20k profit.
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The usual 7 years low-scale cadet pay.....But it's not a bad deal really...£23,500 basic or so and flying pay on top. Then £1000pcm paid off to HSBC every month....
Without a bond etc... off to BA after minimal hours = £43k basic + £12k or so flight pay...$$$$ not bad at all!
Scheme is still the same as before, but it's not exactly easy to get into BA DEP and they have stopped recruitment for the moment. Once retirement age increases in October the problem will probably stop.
Without a bond etc... off to BA after minimal hours = £43k basic + £12k or so flight pay...$$$$ not bad at all!
Scheme is still the same as before, but it's not exactly easy to get into BA DEP and they have stopped recruitment for the moment. Once retirement age increases in October the problem will probably stop.
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Can anyone help with a comparison of this scheme vs. the BA SSP scheme...
My understanding was that if you self-funded at OAT, got into BA thru SSP, you'd start at BA on a reduced 'cadet' salary, as well as have your training debt to repay out of your net 'cadet' earnings - is this correct? And if so, aren't you essentially self-funding a Type Rating (albeit with a BA job offer)?
Was wondering what the net take-home comparison would be (incl. training debt repayments).
My understanding was that if you self-funded at OAT, got into BA thru SSP, you'd start at BA on a reduced 'cadet' salary, as well as have your training debt to repay out of your net 'cadet' earnings - is this correct? And if so, aren't you essentially self-funding a Type Rating (albeit with a BA job offer)?
Was wondering what the net take-home comparison would be (incl. training debt repayments).
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The post wasn't meant to be on the actual scheme or the company.
Its was a general comment on the way the schemes work.
The scheme has been used for years by all sorts of industrys to limit their corporation tax exposure. There are tonnes of other ones as well like if they are operating out of a high corprate tax region all the training will be done in a low corprate tax country. This training of course will be done at an exceptionally high cost. But it will seen as a cost and so go against profits.
Mean while in the low tax country it will be declared as profit and the tax payed.
The company as a whole hasn't lost any money as such but has payed less tax on the amount of profit.
The money is just a tool for the accountants books, the person taking out the loan won't have a clue who the money is being payed to, it will never be in thier bank account. It will all have been in the paper work which you will have pre signed with some boxes not filled out or even on an additional sheet which you will never see.
The company has to pay the training cost otherwise it would be deemed as a benefit in kind and you would be taxed on it.
Either way the whole crux of the issue is that you won't get anything for nothing. You will be paying 2-3 times as much as a modular student. Signed up to x number of years.
And it really doesn't matter what job you get at the end of it. The modular student who has gone 15k loan or no loan at all to FI for a year on 12k to TP FO for 3 years on 25k to TP captain or Jet FO on 40K a year will still be far better off than a direct entry bonded for 7 years 757 FO. And they will have had alot more fun as well.
The people who do apply for this scheme and do get the nod are the people type that the industry wants. It wouldn't matter if they had been modular trained or intergrated. They have the qualities required. Being selected for a scheme like this should give you even more confidence to go modular and save yourself the cost of a house by doing so.
Its was a general comment on the way the schemes work.
The scheme has been used for years by all sorts of industrys to limit their corporation tax exposure. There are tonnes of other ones as well like if they are operating out of a high corprate tax region all the training will be done in a low corprate tax country. This training of course will be done at an exceptionally high cost. But it will seen as a cost and so go against profits.
Mean while in the low tax country it will be declared as profit and the tax payed.
The company as a whole hasn't lost any money as such but has payed less tax on the amount of profit.
The money is just a tool for the accountants books, the person taking out the loan won't have a clue who the money is being payed to, it will never be in thier bank account. It will all have been in the paper work which you will have pre signed with some boxes not filled out or even on an additional sheet which you will never see.
The company has to pay the training cost otherwise it would be deemed as a benefit in kind and you would be taxed on it.
Either way the whole crux of the issue is that you won't get anything for nothing. You will be paying 2-3 times as much as a modular student. Signed up to x number of years.
And it really doesn't matter what job you get at the end of it. The modular student who has gone 15k loan or no loan at all to FI for a year on 12k to TP FO for 3 years on 25k to TP captain or Jet FO on 40K a year will still be far better off than a direct entry bonded for 7 years 757 FO. And they will have had alot more fun as well.
The people who do apply for this scheme and do get the nod are the people type that the industry wants. It wouldn't matter if they had been modular trained or intergrated. They have the qualities required. Being selected for a scheme like this should give you even more confidence to go modular and save yourself the cost of a house by doing so.
Last edited by mad_jock; 21st Jun 2006 at 14:16.
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I hope you aren't a tax accountant as that is convoluted and utterly rubbish.
That's your opinion.
A very pertinent comment - passing this selection will prove you have what it takes to get into the airline.
And they will have had alot more fun as well.
The people who do apply for this scheme and do get the nod are the people type that the industry wants. It wouldn't matter if they had been modular trained or intergrated. They have the qualities required. Being selected for a scheme like this should give you even more confidence to go modular and save yourself the cost of a house by doing so.
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So what's this all about then? http://www.thomascookjobs.co.uk/USER...ot_salarie.htm 
It's all a bit confusing.....
It's all a bit confusing.....
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No don't worry not a tax person just an ex-contractor.
Most of the type ratings which are bonded are run on the same lines.
You take out a loan with a bank, you never see the money and the company pay's it off over the time. If you leave the company stops paying. It just depends on your deal if you have a reduced salary for this period or the company pays the lot.
Most of the type ratings which are bonded are run on the same lines.
You take out a loan with a bank, you never see the money and the company pay's it off over the time. If you leave the company stops paying. It just depends on your deal if you have a reduced salary for this period or the company pays the lot.
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X3K5, how ironic that by trying to clear things up and state facts, you end up confusing the situation even more.
Bolleux (excuse my french). So 1st year cadet earns the same as 1st year FO full pay? Err, no.
I think you may find that the salaries quoted above are around 12k too high. You say that you got the info from the OAT forum? Methinks that they may be adding the £1000 pcm loan payments to the cadet salary to arrive at these fanciful figures. OAT in their true colours.
I've been on their forum a few times before and, quite frankly, it's scary what gets posted as fact on there (most of the time by OAT staff).
No, you are quite mistaken. It is around 20k (£20,843 according to TCX's own site).
Just look at the figures that femalewannabee posted the link to. Interesting that the difference between Cadet salary and FO salary is 13k every year. But only 12k gets paid to your loan.
Or, to illustrate the same point in a different light:
13k x 7 years = 91k lost income compared to an FO after 7 years.
Subtract training costs of 65k = 26k lost out. Not even a type rating of 20k (less for the A320) can account for this black hole.
Oh, really? So they have a second payscale which is also called 'Cadet Salary' which also runs for seven years, but pays nearly 60% more.
But, of course, they don't advertise this on their site. It makes sense to keep this a secret and only advertise the payscale which resembles that of a paper round.
Behave yourself.
I think that after all of this discussion, we can fairly safely say this:
The benefit of this scheme to the trainee is that they get a good chance of going straight into the RHS of a jet. However, for this you do actually pay more.
The main benaficiary of this is the airline who gets a cadet who costs much less than a standard FO (even with loan payments taken into account) for seven years. During this time, there is the added benefit of them not banging on about command positions and absolutely no risk to TCX whatsoever.
The other obvious winner is OAT. They get X candidates on an APP course and a good relationship with TCX, not to mention all of those 200 quids for selection. Again, no risk whatsoever.
All of the above is fine, except the way it is marketed. For the more experienced, we can see this scheme for what it is. However, when the details include spin such as:
you can see that they are trying to make it look like somthing it isn't. This is likely to appeal to the younger wannabees who are at the 'I just want to be a pilot and don't care how much it costs' stage.
It just isn't a good financial move. And TCX/OAT are either fibbers or have dodgy calculators.
EK
First Year
£33,055
Second Year
£35,367
Fourth Year
£39,611
£33,055
Second Year
£35,367
Fourth Year
£39,611
I think you may find that the salaries quoted above are around 12k too high. You say that you got the info from the OAT forum? Methinks that they may be adding the £1000 pcm loan payments to the cadet salary to arrive at these fanciful figures. OAT in their true colours.
I've been on their forum a few times before and, quite frankly, it's scary what gets posted as fact on there (most of the time by OAT staff).
So some people are quite mistaken if they think its around £20K.
Just look at the figures that femalewannabee posted the link to. Interesting that the difference between Cadet salary and FO salary is 13k every year. But only 12k gets paid to your loan.
Or, to illustrate the same point in a different light:
13k x 7 years = 91k lost income compared to an FO after 7 years.
Subtract training costs of 65k = 26k lost out. Not even a type rating of 20k (less for the A320) can account for this black hole.
That I believe is different to the OAT/TCA scheme.
But, of course, they don't advertise this on their site. It makes sense to keep this a secret and only advertise the payscale which resembles that of a paper round.
Behave yourself.
I think that after all of this discussion, we can fairly safely say this:
The benefit of this scheme to the trainee is that they get a good chance of going straight into the RHS of a jet. However, for this you do actually pay more.
The main benaficiary of this is the airline who gets a cadet who costs much less than a standard FO (even with loan payments taken into account) for seven years. During this time, there is the added benefit of them not banging on about command positions and absolutely no risk to TCX whatsoever.
The other obvious winner is OAT. They get X candidates on an APP course and a good relationship with TCX, not to mention all of those 200 quids for selection. Again, no risk whatsoever.
All of the above is fine, except the way it is marketed. For the more experienced, we can see this scheme for what it is. However, when the details include spin such as:
Refund of your APP FO training and associated costs through employment with TCA
graduates will achieve significant financial benefit compared to the more usual situation of repaying these training costs themselves out of a normal First Officer net salary.
TCA will repay the graduate's actual OAT training and CAA costs
It just isn't a good financial move. And TCX/OAT are either fibbers or have dodgy calculators.
EK
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Originally Posted by X3k5
Believe it or not, those ARE the salaries, not 20K.
Edited to add: last time I checked, CTC wings cadet graduates ended up on the thomas cook "cadet" payscale... from what I know, CTC have a similar £60k bank loan scheme, tied to airline for 7 years, given £1k a month to pay off loan. So I really cannot see why this oxford scheme would be a great deal different?
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Really ???
X3K5, Do you honestly think that airline management (who include quite a few accountants and managers familiar with marketing spin) are that "honest" when it comes to trying to sell something, that on the face of it looks pretty damn great but in reality is entirely ropey ??
When you go and book your holiday to the Canaries, you have to pay for x, y, z and a whole host of other things, because ITC's are pretty sh
it hot when it comes to marketing a package holiday for peanuts and then charge gold plated prices for all the hidden extras that initially were not included in the holiday price.
Can it be that much different "selling" this OAT/TCA APP course to the potential Jet RHS wannabe ?
"EK you are being quite immature in this case. You are saying that they would write false values in an official business plan? Well you should know that they cannot do that for legal reasons." - False, isn't quite the word I would use for this setup. It is marketing spin; OAT have used such vague comments for years in order to get customers through the door. AND take a look at the schemes that Ryanair, Easy and Vueling are utilising at the very moment - Its the pilot who is worse off, not the airline or training provider.
For those not familiar with the way the industry has gone over the last few years, Pilots are now seen as a cash cow.
femalewannabe, I fully agree with you. I cannot think why TCA would pay low hour fresh wannabe's straight from school the same as an experienced F/O in the RHS as their website clearly shows.
For those seriously looking at this scheme, suggest take the contract to a friendly lawyer to read through the T&Cs.
Jenson
ps. Didn't Virgin run a similar scheme with Cabair about ten years ago. But then it cost about £45k - not bad at todays prices ?
When you go and book your holiday to the Canaries, you have to pay for x, y, z and a whole host of other things, because ITC's are pretty sh
it hot when it comes to marketing a package holiday for peanuts and then charge gold plated prices for all the hidden extras that initially were not included in the holiday price.Can it be that much different "selling" this OAT/TCA APP course to the potential Jet RHS wannabe ?
"EK you are being quite immature in this case. You are saying that they would write false values in an official business plan? Well you should know that they cannot do that for legal reasons." - False, isn't quite the word I would use for this setup. It is marketing spin; OAT have used such vague comments for years in order to get customers through the door. AND take a look at the schemes that Ryanair, Easy and Vueling are utilising at the very moment - Its the pilot who is worse off, not the airline or training provider.
For those not familiar with the way the industry has gone over the last few years, Pilots are now seen as a cash cow.
femalewannabe, I fully agree with you. I cannot think why TCA would pay low hour fresh wannabe's straight from school the same as an experienced F/O in the RHS as their website clearly shows.
For those seriously looking at this scheme, suggest take the contract to a friendly lawyer to read through the T&Cs.
Jenson
ps. Didn't Virgin run a similar scheme with Cabair about ten years ago. But then it cost about £45k - not bad at todays prices ?
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femaleWannabee
I'm positive they won't give you an extra £1000 a month of top of that (that WOULD be silly...) - what they do is give you £1000 of your monthly wage, tax-free. The remainder of your earnings in your monthly paycheque I would assume is taxed as normal.
If those are the salaries written in the business plan, I wouldn't argue with them. Yes we all know there are hidden T&Cs and stuff, but if you're going to be a pessimist all your life, I pity you on what you do with that whole chunk of time given to you.
Fact is I'd be happy to do it, but for me it's not about the money or how much I'm spending. It's what I do with my life outside of work that matters. You can be a naysayer or a pro-Oxford person, but at the end of the day if you sit at home, thinking through ways in which it can't be true, ways in which its cleverly marketed and ways in which you can find a reason to inform those who have an apparent lack of maturity compared to your oh-so-mature selves, I really do wonder! The same goes for those who praise the scheme - you're just as bad - either get on with it, or don't.
I'm positive they won't give you an extra £1000 a month of top of that (that WOULD be silly...) - what they do is give you £1000 of your monthly wage, tax-free. The remainder of your earnings in your monthly paycheque I would assume is taxed as normal.
If those are the salaries written in the business plan, I wouldn't argue with them. Yes we all know there are hidden T&Cs and stuff, but if you're going to be a pessimist all your life, I pity you on what you do with that whole chunk of time given to you.
Fact is I'd be happy to do it, but for me it's not about the money or how much I'm spending. It's what I do with my life outside of work that matters. You can be a naysayer or a pro-Oxford person, but at the end of the day if you sit at home, thinking through ways in which it can't be true, ways in which its cleverly marketed and ways in which you can find a reason to inform those who have an apparent lack of maturity compared to your oh-so-mature selves, I really do wonder! The same goes for those who praise the scheme - you're just as bad - either get on with it, or don't.
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Ok, I understand it a bit better now having read a thread on the oxford forum. Assuming what X3k5 posted is correct, £33,055 in year one before tax and NI. Then the loan repayment is taken out before tax at £1000 per month. So that leaves you with £21055 before tax in the first year. You are not tied to the airline but you still have the loan to pay off if you leave. for those who can't be bothered working it out, £1000 a month for 7 years is £84000. so it's a better deal than having to pay the loan from your net salary, but in my opinion, still very expensive. Someone on this scheme could be starting in year one with the airline beside an ex modular student (earning the same £33,055) who only has £20k to pay off instead of £84k..... I know that kind of situation would really piss me off!
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I think this whole issue of how much the Cadet salary costs will be cleared up very soon at Stage 2 when they spill the beans. It will just cost you £200 to find out 
1) False values? No. The values are not false. They have taken your salary and added the loan payments that they make on your behalf. They have just played with figures, somthing which accountants are paid to do (I worked as an auditor for one of the 'big 4' and saw this every day).
2)An official business plan? I thought you said it was from the OAT froum? Is this a normal place to publish legal documents? No, it will be subject to the usual disclaimers on such forums and, as such, aint worth the cyberspace it's written on.
This sort of comment proves my point. It quite simply shows your naivety. How much do you think pilots earn? Without going around in circles, it is the salary. If you extrapolate your 'official figures', you will get a cadet on 45k by the 7th year. Plus the 12k pa loan payments, makes the net benefit to the candidate of around 57k pa. You need to be a FO for 3 years and then an SFO for 15 years, on full pay, to earn the equivalent. It is just not realistic.
No my friend, I just have a healthy knack of asking quetions and trying to see the facts as they are. And a calculator that works properly.
Donandar, your post so far is the most worrying.
Thats the attitude! I'll bet you'll think the same way after 7 years in a shared rented flat. You are just the person they are after.
Why do you wonder? There are already a few people on the forum who are thinking of applying and are now asking questions. And the long term effect of people not applying to these schemes due to the dodgy economics may, just may, be a better deal for future schemes (doesn't apply to me though, I'm already well into a modular course 
)
Err, so were not aloud to discuss the scheme? Just what is the purpose of this forum? And if you don't want to hear about it, what are you doing here? Does the fact that you are posting mean your comment is aimed at yourself?
May I suggest that when you do go to OAT for selection, you ask questions. And lots of them.
Don't forget your £200 cheque either.
EK
You are saying that they would write false values in an official business plan? Well you should know that they cannot do that for legal reasons.
2)An official business plan? I thought you said it was from the OAT froum? Is this a normal place to publish legal documents? No, it will be subject to the usual disclaimers on such forums and, as such, aint worth the cyberspace it's written on.
Believe it or not, those ARE the salaries, not 20K.
EK you are being quite immature in this case.
Donandar, your post so far is the most worrying.
but for me it's not about the money or how much I'm spending.
if you sit at home, thinking through ways in which it can't be true, ways in which its cleverly marketed and ways in which you can find a reason to inform those who have an apparent lack of maturity compared to your oh-so-mature selves, I really do wonder!
)
The same goes for those who praise the scheme - you're just as bad - either get on with it, or don't.
May I suggest that when you do go to OAT for selection, you ask questions. And lots of them.
Don't forget your £200 cheque either.
EK
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This scheme is very similar to the CTC one, at least in the financial aspects. For all of you who are considering it, be absolutely certain of one thing: the airline and the school are promoting it because it is financially attractive for them. If they can package it so it appears not to hurt you too much, then they'll get a sufficient number of applicants to achieve the savings they're after. Inevitably, these schemes are designed to appeal to the younger, or more financially-naive wannabe. The kind of person who would buy a TV from Comet/Dixons/Currys etc. at 29.8% interest because they only see the monthly payments, not the total cost.
I have no doubt that the training you will get will be excellent, and, if you are lucky enough to find that a job is still available when you graduate (not guaranteed), you will be one of the very few who starts their working life as an airline pilot on a large jet. However, you will be among the worst-paid jet pilots on the planet, and the financial dead-weight you have signed up to will make it very difficult to move to a better-paid job - because, as soon as you do, the loan will have to be paid from net income, not gross. That will be expensive!
If you are considering this, or any similar, scheme, have someone who is financially literate look over it and explain to you exactly how it works. Compare it with the alternatives, and don't forget to consider what happens if you fail the course or if the jobs aren't available once you graduate. Go in with your eyes open.
Scroggs
I have no doubt that the training you will get will be excellent, and, if you are lucky enough to find that a job is still available when you graduate (not guaranteed), you will be one of the very few who starts their working life as an airline pilot on a large jet. However, you will be among the worst-paid jet pilots on the planet, and the financial dead-weight you have signed up to will make it very difficult to move to a better-paid job - because, as soon as you do, the loan will have to be paid from net income, not gross. That will be expensive!
If you are considering this, or any similar, scheme, have someone who is financially literate look over it and explain to you exactly how it works. Compare it with the alternatives, and don't forget to consider what happens if you fail the course or if the jobs aren't available once you graduate. Go in with your eyes open.
Scroggs
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So what is the concensus now amongst wannabes? Are schemes like this OAT offering and other similar ones on the market (CTC wings) loosing their benefit therefore their value?
My thoughts are 2 -3 years ago £84K debt and reduced salary with the prospect of job offer was a pain, but one of the best (only) ways of getting a very hard to come by job (Jet F/O).
Are the tables now turning in favour of the entirely self "sponsored" as the market is more buoyant? And the all important time to first job is appears (my opinion only) to be reducing for low hours fATPLs? Thus rendering the need for the prospective job offer given by these schemes obselete?
Opinions? esp from the old hands such as Scroggs and WWW.
CBE
- was going to start a new thread (Scroggs) but thought it fits in quite nicely here.
My thoughts are 2 -3 years ago £84K debt and reduced salary with the prospect of job offer was a pain, but one of the best (only) ways of getting a very hard to come by job (Jet F/O).
Are the tables now turning in favour of the entirely self "sponsored" as the market is more buoyant? And the all important time to first job is appears (my opinion only) to be reducing for low hours fATPLs? Thus rendering the need for the prospective job offer given by these schemes obselete?
Opinions? esp from the old hands such as Scroggs and WWW.
CBE
- was going to start a new thread (Scroggs) but thought it fits in quite nicely here.
Last edited by captainbirdseye; 22nd Jun 2006 at 13:17.
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Scroggs,
Isn't the important metric to understand what most new jet pilots are paid, less training costs/interest?
i.e. a typical self sponsored integrated student with debt to repay is going to be roughly as 'poorly' paid as the TC guys, all things being equal (e.g. BA's SSP 'cadet' salary less training debts / Thomsonfly's Second Officer salary less training debts). Does this not means it's a little unfair to describe these TC cadets as amongst the poorly paid jet drivers on the planet....?
Isn't the important metric to understand what most new jet pilots are paid, less training costs/interest?
i.e. a typical self sponsored integrated student with debt to repay is going to be roughly as 'poorly' paid as the TC guys, all things being equal (e.g. BA's SSP 'cadet' salary less training debts / Thomsonfly's Second Officer salary less training debts). Does this not means it's a little unfair to describe these TC cadets as amongst the poorly paid jet drivers on the planet....?
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This scheme seems more expensive to me than the CTC one - the training bond is more and it appears that you have to pay for your accomodation etc, which isn't true with CTC. Also CTC does have a guarantee - if you look at their website it says that if you fail to make the standards they will repay up to 30k of the bond (you are only liable for payments you have made over 30k) - ok it isn't all of it but if you are close to the full 60k you would already be close to finish training.
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Easyflyer,
These self sponsored airline schemes are the worst way to fund training. I got to the last 15 of the last Thomsonfly scheme for FTE. When I learnt the financial details (you pay for training AND get reduced salary) I decided not to take it even if I was offered a place (which I wasn't). Luckily I didn't have to pay for the selection process!
This TCX scheme is the worst of a bad bunch. OAT is the most expensive school. You don't get accomodation included. The salary paid is far less than FO salary (even with your £1000 added). So, yes. I think the comment is fair.
CBE - a very good question. I think that as far as comparing it to modalar goes, it is a no brainer.
I still have my job on fairly good money, now own a house (which has already gone up in value quite a bit and will be in the region of 10k when I finish my training) and doing my flying / exams at the same time. I should be in about 25k of debt when I finish. You could even subtract money made on the house from that too as none of the above are possible on Integrated (for me, anyway!).
However, if you compare this scheme to self sponsored Integrated, it is more open to interpretation.
I think the deciding factor is that they incourage (usually young) wannabees to opt for a route that they may not be able to afford.
For example, to get onto OAT APP, you only get 50k loan. Therefore you need another 14k for the rest of the training plus food/accom. In other words, you need around 30k in addition to your loan. People on the APP know this and are prepared to pay it.
However, the scheme hides this by offering you a bigger loan (as if it's a good thing!?) and some number fudging with your salary. The fact is that you still pay this 30k back after you have finished, plus the interest. They are praying on those who don't look forward to the next 7 years (in a financial sense). These people are usually young and want that jet job. I don't mean to be offensive to people who are young, but I've been there myself.
If you have 30k knocking around and don't mind peanuts for 7 years, then it may be for you. But then you could pay for the whole training modualr with the 30k and have no debt. Even if it took you 2 years to get a job (unlikely if you are good enough to pass the selection criteria in this climate) you are literelly tens of thousands of pounds better off.
Even if you think I'm talking a load of tripe, then think about this:
I don't know Scroggs personally, but from his posts I know he is a very experienced pilot with Virgin Atl. and knows his onions when it comes to this sort of thing. If he says something, listen very carefully.
EK
Does this not means it's a little unfair to describe these TC cadets as amongst the poorly paid jet drivers on the planet....?
This TCX scheme is the worst of a bad bunch. OAT is the most expensive school. You don't get accomodation included. The salary paid is far less than FO salary (even with your £1000 added). So, yes. I think the comment is fair.
Are the tables now turning in favour of the entirely self "sponsored" as the market is more buoyant?
I still have my job on fairly good money, now own a house (which has already gone up in value quite a bit and will be in the region of 10k when I finish my training) and doing my flying / exams at the same time. I should be in about 25k of debt when I finish. You could even subtract money made on the house from that too as none of the above are possible on Integrated (for me, anyway!).
However, if you compare this scheme to self sponsored Integrated, it is more open to interpretation.
I think the deciding factor is that they incourage (usually young) wannabees to opt for a route that they may not be able to afford.
For example, to get onto OAT APP, you only get 50k loan. Therefore you need another 14k for the rest of the training plus food/accom. In other words, you need around 30k in addition to your loan. People on the APP know this and are prepared to pay it.
However, the scheme hides this by offering you a bigger loan (as if it's a good thing!?) and some number fudging with your salary. The fact is that you still pay this 30k back after you have finished, plus the interest. They are praying on those who don't look forward to the next 7 years (in a financial sense). These people are usually young and want that jet job. I don't mean to be offensive to people who are young, but I've been there myself.
If you have 30k knocking around and don't mind peanuts for 7 years, then it may be for you. But then you could pay for the whole training modualr with the 30k and have no debt. Even if it took you 2 years to get a job (unlikely if you are good enough to pass the selection criteria in this climate) you are literelly tens of thousands of pounds better off.
Even if you think I'm talking a load of tripe, then think about this:
I don't know Scroggs personally, but from his posts I know he is a very experienced pilot with Virgin Atl. and knows his onions when it comes to this sort of thing. If he says something, listen very carefully.
EK
