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Ryanair Interview and Sim Assessment (merged)

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Ryanair Interview and Sim Assessment (merged)

Old 28th May 2021, 07:38
  #9941 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: IRS NAV ONLY
Posts: 1,109
6 years of experience or 6 years seniority in the company? Because SWA requires 2500h total and 1000h turbine PIC preferred (more or less mandatory, unless they are desperate for pilots). So it will take quite a while to get 1000h PIC, before one even meets the minimum requirement to join. Oh, and add the time and the cost of a 4-year degree to that.

Having a glance here, you can see that only 219 of their pilots are aged less than 40 (will be 65 in 2046 or later), so it's not like year 6 pilot is 25 - most likely it's double that age.

I bet if you are in the left seat of a European LCC by 25 on a 6-figure salary and invest the money right, you won't be far off from the average USA pilot - remember, not everyone makes it to the majors there at the age of 23, and a lot of people are stuck in regionals for life.

And at the end, it's all sticks and stones - they've got the right to live and work in the USA, most of us don't, so those jobs aren't accessible anyway.
FlyingStone is offline  
Old 28th May 2021, 12:31
  #9942 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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I think those numbers are slightly outdated, I have full copy of the current TC's, which to be honest are pretty amazing (not the forget the 11% profit share bonus) but still in the end it's as you say sticks and stones, as us from Europe can't work there.

But the point I am trying to make is the fact that airlines in Europe / UK, have cheapened the profession, also in Europe before it used to be you needed 1000 - 1500 hours to even get a chance to get a jet job, then along came Ryanair and many others, who saw there was an opportunity to take advantage of eager pilots willing to do anything to get a job, including paying for their own training and working for peanuts. For those who say Europe does not have the possibility for this development, I say that is nonsense. When I first got into aviation that was the standard way, work as instructor for few years, get some hours, join a TP operator and get multi crew experience and 1000 - 1500 hours, and then straight to the big airlines. The ones who destroyed this natural development route was the likes of Ryanair. And Europe has been lucky because during this "trial" there was never a major accident, such as the Colgan Air accident, which lead to major changes in the US.

Add the cost of their training and period of low pay, and I still struggle to see it will end up equal.4 -5 years in the regionals, and you could get into a company like SWA, I am just using them as an example as they are LoCo and I have friends working there, and when comparing work packages, it is amazing to see the difference. Then again SWA has a very strong union, which is big part of their success. My friend who is there, is in his early 40's already with over 10 years in the LHS.

Having a limit of hours to join, example 1500 hours, would ensure protecting the industry and the TC's of the pilot profession, and with mandatory union membership for new joiners. Many might not see the advantage of union membership, specially new young pilots who when join think it's not of much use, until we have a situation like now with this current pandemic. We have seen companies do what they want, because there is a lack of unity within the company among the pilots, so in the end we are own worst enemies.

The previous "carrot" was that you would join and within 5 - 6 years you will be in the LHS, however this pandemic has changed this "structure" - new FO's joining are going to be exploited to the full on zero hour contracts, until the airlines manage to find some kind of sustainable recovery over the next few years. Equally there will be thousands of experienced FO's , in the bottle neck for upgrades. At one point we can reach a level where airlines will not be doing upgrades for several years, but of course they will continue to need "cheap" FO's who are willing to pay for their training and working for below liveable salary.

Before the pandemic there was an outlook of genuine short term shortage, companies where willing to do more to get flight crew, however now it has all be reset to probably the worst time ever in the industry, there will be man pilots not returning to the flight deck for many various reasons, some will have discovered life outside the Cockpit is not that bad, others simply will not be able to find a job and go out of currency. Because in reality, there are no new jobs out there available at the moment, that could not be filled by pilots who lost their livelihood the last 15 months.
truckflyer is offline  
Old 29th May 2021, 11:22
  #9943 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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1500h requirement in Europe would be practically impossible to achieve, as the GA market is nowhere large enough to sustain this. FAA 1500h rule applies to turboprop airliners (ATR, Dash 8, ...) as well, but even if we would forego this requirement, the number of turboprops in operation have been reducing in the past years and I don't see them coming back with large part of short-distance regional travel being replaced with high-speed train where this is feasible.

I bet there would also be an enormous push from nearly all airlines in Europe against this, particularly the ones that prefer to hire only tabular rasa pilots - when was the last time e.g. Lufthansa mainline hired anybody who didn't go thorugh their ab-initio flight training school?

100% union subscription sounds great, but you can't make it mandatory, according to current labour laws around Europe, as people are free to join a union... or not.
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Old 29th May 2021, 22:50
  #9944 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Greece
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Regarding the FI route, all of you saying is good to go and become FI after finishing your CPL. My question to you guys are you happy paying €120k for training and be trained by unexperienced FI? You just can't see the bigger picture which is low training quality and potentially wrong airmanship mentality from the day one which will stay for the rest of the career. I had an option to go the FI route but I questioned my self if I was on the shoes of the trainee would it be fair. Most of the FI's they just fly to gain hours nothing personal just make my hours and who cares, if you choose the FI route you need to be passionate about the teaching and be patient. The moral of the above is don't be selfish. Happy landings.
Polirised89 is offline  
Old 30th May 2021, 14:50
  #9945 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Or don't overpay €120k for training, very little of which goes to the instructor, to get a short-cut to a RHS in a jet as an un-experienced FO - look at the bigger picture
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Old 31st May 2021, 14:10
  #9946 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Thessaloniki
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Polirised89

Seriously who pays 120k to become a pilot? I payed around 51k all included, even examiner fees, and If I had made some more thorough research I would have decreased the cost even more. During my training I flew with many instructors. Some experienced more some less. I didn't face any problem with anyone and all were properly trained. Having a pilot job today is something great, airliner or FI, it doesn't matter so long as you pay your rent and log some hours.
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Old 31st May 2021, 21:08
  #9947 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Posts: 724
FlyingStone

Of course the airlines would not want the 1500 hour rule, it would not suit their pockets. But with the current amount of pilots looking for jobs in Europe, it would take many years before there would be need for new "cadets". There is flying to get these hours in Europe or outside Europe, but it demands a lot more effort and you need to be much more motivated to want to do this. It does not just depends on mum/dad's bank anymore, you actually need to want to achieve your goal by much hard work and making sacrifices. No longer depending on over paying the FTO who has an airline agreement, who all take their own little cuts of the massive amount students pay for their training. The integrated ones paying 120K or more, are more or less paying "double" of what it would cost if you did it modular. Everyone I know who did modular when I did it, eventually managed to get a job, but sure it took much more effort and work, but they reached their goals in the end anyway.

It's funny how this route used to work fine before, when it was not expected that your first job had to be on an A320 or 737.
This route would kill of the FTO's charging 120K for their corrupt integrated courses, trying to lock out everyone else doing modular route or their way to reach their career goals.

As for the complaint about "unexperienced FI's, what a load of nonsense, most of those FI's start of training PPL students, the ones doing CPL and IR / ME, would always have much more experience, hence your trainers would have more experience as you take different ratings.

I am going to be blunt, if you in these times go and pay £100K or more for an integrated flight course, you are showing serious lack of judgement. And these FTO's selling these courses should stop selling lies.

You can get all done in your own time for probably around £50K, and you have just as good chance to get a job when you have completed the course as anyone else, specially in a company like RYR.
truckflyer is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2021, 07:14
  #9948 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 35
I know a new Ryanair FO who did his type rating just before Covid hit (around Jan 2020). He was posted to Poland, did a few flights then was sent home. He has been home ever since, on no pay.
hargreaves99 is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2021, 16:19
  #9949 (permalink)  
 
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This highlights the issue. What Ryanair needs and wants are 2 different things.

Ryanair wants to have hundreds of pilots sitting waiting "ready to work" for the ramp up, but how the Pilots will survive until they really need them, they don't care about. It's great loads of readily trained pilots waiting, specially when they don't need to pay them anything.
truckflyer is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2021, 17:47
  #9950 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: EU
Posts: 122
Why would they care? Why is that Ryanair problem?
Those cadets are lucky to get to fly a 737 over some crappy metroliner
iome is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2021, 18:01
  #9951 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 35
the guy I know has pretty "comfortable" parents who bankrolled his integrated training, he's pretty young, so I guess he can afford to live rent-free and "wait it out".

what a business.
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Old 1st Jun 2021, 20:39
  #9952 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: gatwick
Age: 47
Posts: 117
Looks like RyanAir does have what they want. They do have pilots ready to work so what do they need then? Yes of course it's great that they don't pay them, RyanAir we know are ruthless. So fortunate that I never worked for them and never will. They provide stepping stones of a sort for a route to become an airline pilot, which many, for their sins, aspire to. No reason to knock them they just run a business, plenty of sharks in the business world.
rotorwills is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2021, 22:41
  #9953 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Professional / Profession = a person engaged in a specified activity, as a main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.

Stepping stone? Within European aviation, there is not much left regarding "stepping stones" Even the so called "major airlines" now have their own "low cost" airlines, or they have been redefining their TC's, pulling it downwards towards Ryanair / Wizz, so they can as they say be able to "compete" with the Low Cost operators.

Paying over 30,000 now for a TR, to sit and wait at home that you might get called for a duty within the next 3 years and you are not able to pay your loans or pay to live life seems like a bad deal for me. Then again if "bank of parents" are bank rolling you, you probably have not really grown up and learned about taking personal responsibility yet.
truckflyer is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2021, 07:31
  #9954 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: World
Posts: 198
Please get your facts right and do a bit of research. You keep talking about random stuff which make no sense. I hope you are not a pilot as I wouldn't like to spend a single minute with you in a cockpit.
BoeingLudo737 is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2021, 08:25
  #9955 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: United Kingdon
Posts: 72
Which "facts" do you disagree with particularly?
rogue leader is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2021, 10:50
  #9956 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Spain
Age: 41
Posts: 52
It seems we are getting one step closer to the role of an FO being voluntary, the “reward” being flight hours that get you nearer your command.

Ryanair is no stepping stone, they are a huge success story, it will soon be one of the only major airlines in europe, and the largest at that. Where do you plan on stepping to? I am not aware of a single other “better” airline with even the hint of thinking about recruiting any time over the next few years. In the UK Virgin/BA will not need “off the street” pilot recruits for the best part of this decade. Between them they have over 1,000 pilots in priority return pools, no planned expansion above 2019 levels, and very very few age 65 retirements.

If you join Ryanair expect it to be your career airline. If you are ok with that, and the conditions that go with it then fill your boots. If you are not, then perhaps choose a different career.
Chief Willy is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2021, 16:02
  #9957 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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BoeingLudo737

Not much substance from you is there? You poor sensitive snowflake soul. With your love for Ryanair's business model, you don't need to worry about sharing the cockpit with me. I don't belong to those who believe you should need to lower your expectations that much to follow your Magenta line.

Instead of constant ad hominem response, you should rather put some substance to your defence of this airline you love so much, I suspect you are afraid to reveal to much of your true colours if you did. Ryanair has gone from people believing it's a "stepping stone" to becoming your "Final Destination", and wait and see how many will be able to work until retirement age working full time for such companies. Bon voyage.
truckflyer is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2021, 20:30
  #9958 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 35
Basically the airline industry has turned into what the helicopter industry has been like for years

ie..

a) if you can afford to drop £120,000 on your training, and...
b) you are young (ie under 30), and...
c) you can afford to "wait it out", and...
d) be prepared to move anywhere, and
e) you can put up with anything....

... then you might have a career.

Last edited by hargreaves99; 4th Jun 2021 at 06:39.
hargreaves99 is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2021, 22:10
  #9959 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: everywhere
Posts: 171
The pilots recently 'hired' and doing line training right now whilst current RYR pilots are home on unpaid leave will be on here complaining next year that they are home on unpaid leave, whilst new cadets are being hired and doing line training ..

So goes the circle of life.
A320LGW is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2021, 08:36
  #9960 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: EU
Posts: 122
No Ryanair pilot is home unpaid. Unless you are talking about the various contractors that enjoyed a reduced taxation and overall higher earnings. They are service providers, most of them despise unions and were happy to make more money than the regular guys.

Something along the line "you've made your bed, now lie in it"
iome is offline  

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