Working in India
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Working in India
Kingfisher: Co-Pilots / Trainee Co-Pilots:
ATR 42/72
Current Medical CPL, FRTO, COP/RTR and IR with multi engine and minimum of 25 hrs on multi-engine aircraft. (10 hrs could be completed on an approved multi – engine simulator). Pilots with prior flying experience on multi engine aircraft preferred.
From their website, at last, breath of fresh air, not outrageous demands for that first jet job. Has anyone looked into it? I'm guessing the low hours totals are maybe to get Indian nationals into the aircraft opposed to foreigners?
The COP/RTR are Certificate of Proficiency/Radio Telephony something (having 14 JAA ATPL's done may supersede this requirement, anyone with any experience?)
Worth a debate anyway
ATR 42/72
Current Medical CPL, FRTO, COP/RTR and IR with multi engine and minimum of 25 hrs on multi-engine aircraft. (10 hrs could be completed on an approved multi – engine simulator). Pilots with prior flying experience on multi engine aircraft preferred.
From their website, at last, breath of fresh air, not outrageous demands for that first jet job. Has anyone looked into it? I'm guessing the low hours totals are maybe to get Indian nationals into the aircraft opposed to foreigners?
The COP/RTR are Certificate of Proficiency/Radio Telephony something (having 14 JAA ATPL's done may supersede this requirement, anyone with any experience?)
Worth a debate anyway
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That is something I haven't looked into, is there a surplus of qualified pilots in Inidia like in the US and UK? Maybe that may influence their recruitment plus also the low hours requirement.
Do you have any experience of the Indian air industry or visa situation? Talk about shooting the messenger.
Do you have any experience of the Indian air industry or visa situation? Talk about shooting the messenger.
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hello all
As per Indian law no foreign f/os are allowed in India.the shortage is only for capt and TRE and TRI.The requirement u see on the ad is only for Indian nationals not for low hour foreigners.Oh by the way its raining new carriers in India god only knows when the bubble is going to burst.Similar thing happened in 93 and only 2 airlines survived(Jet airways and Sahara) rest all folded up very quickly.
As per Indian law no foreign f/os are allowed in India.the shortage is only for capt and TRE and TRI.The requirement u see on the ad is only for Indian nationals not for low hour foreigners.Oh by the way its raining new carriers in India god only knows when the bubble is going to burst.Similar thing happened in 93 and only 2 airlines survived(Jet airways and Sahara) rest all folded up very quickly.
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No foreign F/O's allowed in India!
A nice piece of democratic legislation there.
This means effectively single-pilot ops for many A320 flights, with the local Captains being new to the A320 in many instances. Crikey!
Indian airspace is chaotic (antiquated HF comms, overcrowded VHF, ill-equipped ATC) and weather conditions can be very tricky. To say nothing about the state of the airports themselves.
Think I'll take the railway, myself.
(Not a pop at the Indian people, by the way. Absolutely charming folk...but their aviation world is seriously flawed and needs overhauling quickly and thoroughly, before too many "events" occur)
This means effectively single-pilot ops for many A320 flights, with the local Captains being new to the A320 in many instances. Crikey!
Indian airspace is chaotic (antiquated HF comms, overcrowded VHF, ill-equipped ATC) and weather conditions can be very tricky. To say nothing about the state of the airports themselves.
Think I'll take the railway, myself.
(Not a pop at the Indian people, by the way. Absolutely charming folk...but their aviation world is seriously flawed and needs overhauling quickly and thoroughly, before too many "events" occur)
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This isn't really the place to debate the democratic bona fides of the Indian government. For good or bad, their rules are currently that only a few aviation jobs are open to (experienced) foreigners. Funnily enough, the EU and the US, with vastly larger aviation industries, also make it difficult (though not totally impossible) for non-nationals to enter the jobs market. India is entitled to set whatever restrictions she wishes. Live with it.
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The Indian government are as they are because that is how the British taught them to be 50-60 years ago, OK they're still living by a text book that may be 50-60 years out of date but stiff upper lip and all that.
A Captain requires 100 sectors of line training in India thus any need for F/O's is put on the back burners, for several months both seats will be occupied by Captains!
A Captain requires 100 sectors of line training in India thus any need for F/O's is put on the back burners, for several months both seats will be occupied by Captains!
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Re: Our prjudice to european pilots etc...
Scroggs,
Are you basing that on written terms and conditions or are you just guessing, in a sort of retaliation at the way they treat us. Surely some written contractual evidence should be used when making such a bold claim???
Are you basing that on written terms and conditions or are you just guessing, in a sort of retaliation at the way they treat us. Surely some written contractual evidence should be used when making such a bold claim???
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What are you talking about? EU residence and employment legislation is not in some contract, it is law. All countries apply some restrictions to who can and cannot live and work in their territories. Some places are more welcoming than others if they need skilled foreign labour (the Middle East, Africa, some parts of Asia), but the more developed an economy is, the less they need people from outside their country taking their jobs.
Scroggs
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Every country has it rights to who it may offer foreign work permits to and who it may not.
There is enough of a problem with Indian call centres taking over what were previously UK/EU jobs of people answering telephones, you guys would shout from the rooftops if the Indians came to take over the pilot jobs also.
So what right do UK/EU pilots have to go and take the jobs of young Indian wannabee pilots? None whatsoever!
There is enough of a problem with Indian call centres taking over what were previously UK/EU jobs of people answering telephones, you guys would shout from the rooftops if the Indians came to take over the pilot jobs also.
So what right do UK/EU pilots have to go and take the jobs of young Indian wannabee pilots? None whatsoever!
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Hello!
I've read in the last Orient Aviation Mag that according to Indian laws, it is compelled to have at least one Indian flight crew in the cockpit.
I understand: either Indian F/O and foreign Capt or foreign F/O and Indian Capt. This is different from no foreign F/O allowed.
Do you know which version is true?
I've read in the last Orient Aviation Mag that according to Indian laws, it is compelled to have at least one Indian flight crew in the cockpit.
I understand: either Indian F/O and foreign Capt or foreign F/O and Indian Capt. This is different from no foreign F/O allowed.
Do you know which version is true?
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Does the Indian National rule apply to the SFO positions with higher requirements or only the FO. Cannot believe there are that many nationals sitting around with the SFO requirements under their belts? or perhaps there is.
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Hello!
I've read in the last Orient Aviation Mag that according to Indian laws, it is compelled to have at least one Indian flight crew in the cockpit.
I understand: either Indian F/O and foreign Capt or foreign F/O and Indian Capt. This is different from no foreign F/O allowed.
Do you know which version is true?
No Foreign FOs...at all.
One pilot must be Indian; could be Capt or TRI / TRE. for eg if TRI is foreign then the Capt must be Indian and vise versa
Only type rated with 500hrs as PIC & TRI; TRE can get jobs in India.
Indian govt keeps the right to place its own citizens as FO before it allows intl' FOs to take local jobs.
Kingfisher is trying to change ths law..it will never happen.
If an Indian applied to LH he would not get a job, same goes for the local German kid who applies to Jet airways/ Kingfisher etc ect
I've read in the last Orient Aviation Mag that according to Indian laws, it is compelled to have at least one Indian flight crew in the cockpit.
I understand: either Indian F/O and foreign Capt or foreign F/O and Indian Capt. This is different from no foreign F/O allowed.
Do you know which version is true?
No Foreign FOs...at all.
One pilot must be Indian; could be Capt or TRI / TRE. for eg if TRI is foreign then the Capt must be Indian and vise versa
Only type rated with 500hrs as PIC & TRI; TRE can get jobs in India.
Indian govt keeps the right to place its own citizens as FO before it allows intl' FOs to take local jobs.
Kingfisher is trying to change ths law..it will never happen.
If an Indian applied to LH he would not get a job, same goes for the local German kid who applies to Jet airways/ Kingfisher etc ect
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Ok,but I read on some website that India will need about 5000 pilots until 2009. and their flight schools have capacity of producing only about 100 new pilots a year.
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Then there's a great opportunity for the flying training industry in India!
India operates one of the world's largest air forces, which retires several hundred highly-qualified pilots every year. They are quite likely to form the vast bulk of India's new commercial pilots, and the nascent flying training industry will provide most of the rest. A few experienced TRI/TREs from outside the country will pass on their expertise to the new generation of Indian trainers and, in a relatively short time, India is likely to be self-sufficient in commercial pilots again.
Despite some of the preconceptions at work here, India has quite a well-developed and sophisticated economy which is able to respond to industrial developments quite rapidly - including those in aviation. The commercial aviation sector in India is tiny compared to the size of the country, and its likely expansion rate will probably be more or less within the capacity of the associated (and proportionately expanding) training infrastructure. Where there are imbalances, India will (as have many other countries) import the highest-qualified, most experienced help it can get. These highly-experienced individuals will add value by training many Indian nationals to enter or progress within the industry. There is little point in India taking on foreign junior FOs who do little more than occupy a seat that could be taken by an Indian, and effectively remove money from their economy.
Don't get distracted by the huge poverty that is the traditional view of India; that certainly exists, but there is a vast, modern economy developing within the country that neither needs nor wants help from other nations.
Scroggs
India operates one of the world's largest air forces, which retires several hundred highly-qualified pilots every year. They are quite likely to form the vast bulk of India's new commercial pilots, and the nascent flying training industry will provide most of the rest. A few experienced TRI/TREs from outside the country will pass on their expertise to the new generation of Indian trainers and, in a relatively short time, India is likely to be self-sufficient in commercial pilots again.
Despite some of the preconceptions at work here, India has quite a well-developed and sophisticated economy which is able to respond to industrial developments quite rapidly - including those in aviation. The commercial aviation sector in India is tiny compared to the size of the country, and its likely expansion rate will probably be more or less within the capacity of the associated (and proportionately expanding) training infrastructure. Where there are imbalances, India will (as have many other countries) import the highest-qualified, most experienced help it can get. These highly-experienced individuals will add value by training many Indian nationals to enter or progress within the industry. There is little point in India taking on foreign junior FOs who do little more than occupy a seat that could be taken by an Indian, and effectively remove money from their economy.
Don't get distracted by the huge poverty that is the traditional view of India; that certainly exists, but there is a vast, modern economy developing within the country that neither needs nor wants help from other nations.
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Scroggs has summed it up pretty well !
The indian aviation industry still needs some channelising and systematic planning. The DGCA FID are trying their best to provide it.
Also there have been a few major incidents involving expat captains which has caused a lot of embarrassment to the companies which hired them and in one case a company has been sold.
60 to 70% of Kingfisher is ex Air Force all doing well with little or no problems. One of the main reasons Indian F/Os are taken is they are much cheaper than expats. Also an Indian F/O is more used to the Indian environment which will take some getting used to for an expat.
For the foreseeable future I doubt if any policy change will happen.
The indian aviation industry still needs some channelising and systematic planning. The DGCA FID are trying their best to provide it.
Also there have been a few major incidents involving expat captains which has caused a lot of embarrassment to the companies which hired them and in one case a company has been sold.
60 to 70% of Kingfisher is ex Air Force all doing well with little or no problems. One of the main reasons Indian F/Os are taken is they are much cheaper than expats. Also an Indian F/O is more used to the Indian environment which will take some getting used to for an expat.
For the foreseeable future I doubt if any policy change will happen.
Is one to take from all this that India has an ample and adequate supply of FOs to meet the needs of the growing airline industry there and the only need is for experienced captains ?
I can see why the country wants their own citizens to gain experience as quickly as possible and fill the captain spots. But with the airline industry being an economic entity, allowing airplanes to go unflown for lack of pilots would compel companies to take expat FOs if that's what it took to make the system work.
Just curious...
I can see why the country wants their own citizens to gain experience as quickly as possible and fill the captain spots. But with the airline industry being an economic entity, allowing airplanes to go unflown for lack of pilots would compel companies to take expat FOs if that's what it took to make the system work.
Just curious...
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Look, there just isn't going to be a market for expat FOs in India! There is in China, the Middle East, and a few other places, but most countries want to be able to provide for their own needs and will work very hard to do so - it's not easy to tell your countrymen that some of their highest-paying jobs are going to foreigners who otherwise have no right of residence or employment!
Scroggs
Scroggs