UK jobs market and where and how to find that first job?
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This web site is a good place to start...
http://www.ppjn.com
Why not phone up the airlines direct? I can't give you a job - they can..!
Flight International also do a fantastic "Airliner Directory" that they will actually send direct to your house if you phone up and order the 3 back issues. More names and addresses that you know what to do with.
Or try BMI Regional - they are looking for crew, especially right now...
http://www.ppjn.com
Why not phone up the airlines direct? I can't give you a job - they can..!
Flight International also do a fantastic "Airliner Directory" that they will actually send direct to your house if you phone up and order the 3 back issues. More names and addresses that you know what to do with.
Or try BMI Regional - they are looking for crew, especially right now...
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Job hunting strategy, wot 2 do?
Greetings all,
me is fast approachin the end of my IR, MCC set for next month and am beginning to tink bout looking for a job with a uk operator. Will join the large group of 200 hrs pilots looking for work. Am prepared to fly any kind of plane, have no big ideas for flying a 747 just yet, will be happy flying something like a seneca as air taxi to start off with. Can move anywhere.
So far have devised the following dubious lines of attack-
Plan A- Try n get on the CTC wings ATP scheme. Not such a good idea at mo, as is currently not accepting applications. Anyone got any news on this situation? Why the case and will it be a changing soon?
Plan B-Apply direct to airlines. What is the best way to do this?
first task above all I reckon is to get a list from somewhere of all the commercial aircraft operators that operate in the uk. Anyone know where I can find such a list?
Once I have such a list, plans are to research each one and either apply on line or mail drop all of them, with CV and covering letter. Follow up each one with a phone call or an e-mail each month. Keep track of all corespondance, and keep on hassling them. What is the best way to hassle them, e-mails, phone calls, or even camping out on doorsteps?
Plan C- buy a type rating and then try with the TR. How does this work, for example, when you by a tr of someone, eg 737 or something, will they be able to line you up with an airline? Or is it just a case of getting one, then continuing with the CVs until something happens? Not really an option to be honest, as not enough money. will only really consider buying a tr if it comes with a garuanteed job, as will need to take out a loan.
Are there anyother things I can do, or will it just be a case of perserverence with the Cvs and e-mails? Ive heard for example that a lot of people get in through personal contacts. Could try and work a couple of those, but dont think much will result. Have heard on here that the CV sending is mainly a waste of time, but short of stalking an airlines head of recruitment to get to know them personally cant see many other options.
Plan D- get instructor rating and gain hours, whilst continuing to send out CVs and hounding airlines.
What do people out there think of my ideas? Any other ways of approaching the situation that I havent thought of?
Also, would it be foolish sticking only to uk operators, or could anything be gained by widening my search worldwide? Id imagine i have more chance with the uk, but would a foreign be at all interested in taking on a 200hrs british pilot who doesnt even speak the local language?
me is fast approachin the end of my IR, MCC set for next month and am beginning to tink bout looking for a job with a uk operator. Will join the large group of 200 hrs pilots looking for work. Am prepared to fly any kind of plane, have no big ideas for flying a 747 just yet, will be happy flying something like a seneca as air taxi to start off with. Can move anywhere.
So far have devised the following dubious lines of attack-
Plan A- Try n get on the CTC wings ATP scheme. Not such a good idea at mo, as is currently not accepting applications. Anyone got any news on this situation? Why the case and will it be a changing soon?
Plan B-Apply direct to airlines. What is the best way to do this?
first task above all I reckon is to get a list from somewhere of all the commercial aircraft operators that operate in the uk. Anyone know where I can find such a list?
Once I have such a list, plans are to research each one and either apply on line or mail drop all of them, with CV and covering letter. Follow up each one with a phone call or an e-mail each month. Keep track of all corespondance, and keep on hassling them. What is the best way to hassle them, e-mails, phone calls, or even camping out on doorsteps?
Plan C- buy a type rating and then try with the TR. How does this work, for example, when you by a tr of someone, eg 737 or something, will they be able to line you up with an airline? Or is it just a case of getting one, then continuing with the CVs until something happens? Not really an option to be honest, as not enough money. will only really consider buying a tr if it comes with a garuanteed job, as will need to take out a loan.
Are there anyother things I can do, or will it just be a case of perserverence with the Cvs and e-mails? Ive heard for example that a lot of people get in through personal contacts. Could try and work a couple of those, but dont think much will result. Have heard on here that the CV sending is mainly a waste of time, but short of stalking an airlines head of recruitment to get to know them personally cant see many other options.
Plan D- get instructor rating and gain hours, whilst continuing to send out CVs and hounding airlines.
What do people out there think of my ideas? Any other ways of approaching the situation that I havent thought of?
Also, would it be foolish sticking only to uk operators, or could anything be gained by widening my search worldwide? Id imagine i have more chance with the uk, but would a foreign be at all interested in taking on a 200hrs british pilot who doesnt even speak the local language?
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Is Air Baboon another low cost carrier? Will I be required to pay for TR? line training? uniform? to work?.........add infinitum!??
Sounds like a lot of bananas if you ask me!
Sounds like a lot of bananas if you ask me!
...first task above all I reckon is to get a list from somewhere of all the commercial aircraft operators that operate in the uk. Anyone know where I can find such a list?...
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Air Baboon, Hiring Now
Im serious about air baboon people,
check out my website:
www.flybaboo.com
A bonafide airline I think youll find.
check out my website:
www.flybaboo.com
A bonafide airline I think youll find.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Dear Sir / Madame
I regret to inform you that on this occasion you have been unsuccessfull in recruiting me into your airline. Due to the number of job offers I have received I cannot go into any further detail regarding this matter.
May I take this opportunity to thank you for your interest and wish you every success in finding the pilot you want.
Yours sincerely
Timzsta
One day I will send that for real!!!
I regret to inform you that on this occasion you have been unsuccessfull in recruiting me into your airline. Due to the number of job offers I have received I cannot go into any further detail regarding this matter.
May I take this opportunity to thank you for your interest and wish you every success in finding the pilot you want.
Yours sincerely
Timzsta
One day I will send that for real!!!
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Badboy
Instruct for a bit. It's the best fun you will have with your clothes on. Teach Night and IMC to keep your hand in.
Do Not fall into the trap of paying for the TR. We already have to pay for an MCC which is a fairly new requirement.
Lots of pilots fail get jobs anyway as they attend interviews with the attitude that they are intitled to a job. This does not get them far. You have to earn it, not buy it.......
Instruct for a bit. It's the best fun you will have with your clothes on. Teach Night and IMC to keep your hand in.
Do Not fall into the trap of paying for the TR. We already have to pay for an MCC which is a fairly new requirement.
Lots of pilots fail get jobs anyway as they attend interviews with the attitude that they are intitled to a job. This does not get them far. You have to earn it, not buy it.......
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However, having said that I've heard that they are pretty desperate for 146 crew so if you do decide to cross to the darkside its best to approach them as a freelancer.. you get paid a lot more for your trouble and can have some imput into your DO etc.
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Hi there,
Presume you mean pilot jobs.
I'm not in a position to give you an indepth reply but i'm sure someone else with more knowledge on the subject will later, but as i see it it's not great.
I don't know how you guys train but in the UK there are basically two ways, Integrated or Modular.
The guys who come through an Integrated course successfully mostly get recomended to certain airlines by their training provider and most succeed in gaining employment after a few interviews, but some schools are better at getting their graduates interviews than others.
The Modular route is the less expensive way to train but you are left to your own devices when you qualify with regard to getting interviews and it is not easy getting an interview on your own with no experience.
As far as I am led to believe most airlines recieve hundreds of unsolicited CV's through the post/email on a weekly basis without advertising any positions so as you can imagine it's a bit of a lottery as to if you get a call off of an unsolicited CV.
A lot of people become instructors to build their hours which does open a few more doors to them but from what i understand it's still not easy to get a start with the airlines.
There are people who pay a lot of cash to do a type rating on the hope that it will get them a position but i have no idea how good a path this is to go down. Some guys who after paying to do a type rating will work for ridiculously low pay with a low cost carrier which many feel are degrading general terms and conditions in the industry.
So as you can see it depends on what type of training course you have done and where at, but overall i would say that it is very difficult to get your first job in the UK.
Hope this is of use.
How is the job market in Australia?
Regards,
StraightLevel.
Presume you mean pilot jobs.
I'm not in a position to give you an indepth reply but i'm sure someone else with more knowledge on the subject will later, but as i see it it's not great.
I don't know how you guys train but in the UK there are basically two ways, Integrated or Modular.
The guys who come through an Integrated course successfully mostly get recomended to certain airlines by their training provider and most succeed in gaining employment after a few interviews, but some schools are better at getting their graduates interviews than others.
The Modular route is the less expensive way to train but you are left to your own devices when you qualify with regard to getting interviews and it is not easy getting an interview on your own with no experience.
As far as I am led to believe most airlines recieve hundreds of unsolicited CV's through the post/email on a weekly basis without advertising any positions so as you can imagine it's a bit of a lottery as to if you get a call off of an unsolicited CV.
A lot of people become instructors to build their hours which does open a few more doors to them but from what i understand it's still not easy to get a start with the airlines.
There are people who pay a lot of cash to do a type rating on the hope that it will get them a position but i have no idea how good a path this is to go down. Some guys who after paying to do a type rating will work for ridiculously low pay with a low cost carrier which many feel are degrading general terms and conditions in the industry.
So as you can see it depends on what type of training course you have done and where at, but overall i would say that it is very difficult to get your first job in the UK.
Hope this is of use.
How is the job market in Australia?
Regards,
StraightLevel.
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come fly Firstly, you must have the right to live and work in UK. Unless your parents are British - or from another EU country - it's not easy to establish that right. Secondly, you must have a JAA licence. CASA licences are not acceptable in Europe, just as JAA licences are not acceptable in Australia. Unlike Australian airlines, however, EU-based companies do not generally discriminate against pilots who have obtained a converted licence with exemptions for their current qualifications.
Once you have sorted out the right to live and work here, and the appropriate licences, the jobs market in UK - contrary to the impression StraightLevel gives - is better than it has ever been. The great majority of graduates from the various flying schools are finding reasonable flying jobs within 6 months of graduation. Most of those will be straight on to jets, unlike the Australian practice of requiring a new pilot to spend 5 years in the bush on singles then another 5 on an antedeluvian twin TP before being considered fit to darken the door of a jet operating company! Why? Simple: in UK there are around 8000 jet jobs. In Australia, probably little more than 1000.
Scroggs
Once you have sorted out the right to live and work here, and the appropriate licences, the jobs market in UK - contrary to the impression StraightLevel gives - is better than it has ever been. The great majority of graduates from the various flying schools are finding reasonable flying jobs within 6 months of graduation. Most of those will be straight on to jets, unlike the Australian practice of requiring a new pilot to spend 5 years in the bush on singles then another 5 on an antedeluvian twin TP before being considered fit to darken the door of a jet operating company! Why? Simple: in UK there are around 8000 jet jobs. In Australia, probably little more than 1000.
Scroggs
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Without a doubt option (d) mate. Am enjoing the shiney end of an A330 and loving it. At last check the 10 guys I have ever instructed with, 9 gained jet jobs and one a turboprop job after around two years of instructing or charter flying. You will improve your flying have a ball and meet loads of top blokes who you will remain in touch with for ages and enjoy the old times over a beer................yes CAT3C I will be emailing you soon and will be back in the UK in 2 weeks for a beer!
The Cav
The Cav
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I rarely post but feel compelled to do so, I agree with the cavalier gentleman above. This was the route i took..................and boy did i enjoy the career step ladder.#!
From my limited experience i find this being one of the best and job abundant times the industry has seen for many years.
If i may be so bold as to offer a thought ........... be realistic in your outlook with reference to applying for jobs. There are many employment opportunities out there that will lead to greater things - but no matter what you fly - 152 - king air - A340. They all have one thing in common - They ALL fly! And you will take experience and skill from one to the next.
I for one had some of the most enjoyable flying experiences in my career flying an air ambulance from the isle of man.......
I wish you all well ...................and please........................don't pay for that TR - I haven't had to - ever. (and I'm by no means special)
Jester
Sh#ts and Giggles
From my limited experience i find this being one of the best and job abundant times the industry has seen for many years.
If i may be so bold as to offer a thought ........... be realistic in your outlook with reference to applying for jobs. There are many employment opportunities out there that will lead to greater things - but no matter what you fly - 152 - king air - A340. They all have one thing in common - They ALL fly! And you will take experience and skill from one to the next.
I for one had some of the most enjoyable flying experiences in my career flying an air ambulance from the isle of man.......
I wish you all well ...................and please........................don't pay for that TR - I haven't had to - ever. (and I'm by no means special)
Jester
Sh#ts and Giggles
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looking for unadvertised jobs
Hi,
I am soon to finish uni and i have read in many articles that one should try and look for unadvertised jobs.
I have only got a PPL with roughly 55hours so do you think it is worth sending out cover letters and cvs to recruitment departments at airlines? sort of like showing my enthusiasm and introducing myself.
I also recently met an employee at first choice and he said that he could pass my details onto the right department. i told him about my low hours and lack of flying exprience but he told me that the airline actually recruits graduates for pilot positions.
what do you guys think?
I am soon to finish uni and i have read in many articles that one should try and look for unadvertised jobs.
I have only got a PPL with roughly 55hours so do you think it is worth sending out cover letters and cvs to recruitment departments at airlines? sort of like showing my enthusiasm and introducing myself.
I also recently met an employee at first choice and he said that he could pass my details onto the right department. i told him about my low hours and lack of flying exprience but he told me that the airline actually recruits graduates for pilot positions.
what do you guys think?