stop encouraging... (merged with 'Is there any hope')
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stop encouraging... (merged with 'Is there any hope')
why airlines ask pilots to pass psy tests when they are fully qualified.
this is ridiculous...
if a pilot fails some psy tests, why the caa let him fly?
is it a question to select( and a way to make some easy 
)?
so all these psy working at xxx airline have a job and pilots are the cows...
this is ridiculous...
if a pilot fails some psy tests, why the caa let him fly?
is it a question to select( and a way to make some easy
)?so all these psy working at xxx airline have a job and pilots are the cows...
Last edited by A320rider; 2nd Mar 2006 at 11:25.
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Not at all - it can effectively determine whether one is or is not training risk, their receptiveness to working in a multi-crew environment, and their ability to adapt to change and manage the pressure.
The fATPL may be a licence to fly, but it is not a ticket to work within any environment in the industry...
Perhaps this reinforces the point that self-selection is - perhaps - unwise, and that one should submit oneself to selection tests prior to commencing training to determine suitability.
The fATPL may be a licence to fly, but it is not a ticket to work within any environment in the industry...
Perhaps this reinforces the point that self-selection is - perhaps - unwise, and that one should submit oneself to selection tests prior to commencing training to determine suitability.
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wot d u mean by a psy test? personality? If so then such tests are easy to blag. anyone with half a brain can come across as a team player/ highly motivated/ able to adapt to change if they want. I ve taken such things before, and its easy to guess the answers they want to hear.
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psy tests
From my understanding, the psychological tests used in pilot selection are not a pass/fail type of deal, but and aid to the recruitment people in the selection of suitable candidates. When they have the results of the psychological test, they can compare them with the impression the candidate left at the interview stage and the answers given. If there is a discrepancy between the psychological report and the answers given in the interview, it is a possible indicator that the candidate was lying in either the test, the interview or both.
As far as the point that if a pilot is qualified, he is good enough, from my experience this is probably not true. I have met many people who either hold or are capable of holding an ATPL, but I would not personally want to spend 12 hours on a flight deck with them. People who, for one reason or another would not fit in to a particular airline have a negative impact on all those who they work with, and as such when recruiting, an airline will try as best as possible to select the candidate who will fit in. The psychological test can be an integral part of this selection.
As far as the point that if a pilot is qualified, he is good enough, from my experience this is probably not true. I have met many people who either hold or are capable of holding an ATPL, but I would not personally want to spend 12 hours on a flight deck with them. People who, for one reason or another would not fit in to a particular airline have a negative impact on all those who they work with, and as such when recruiting, an airline will try as best as possible to select the candidate who will fit in. The psychological test can be an integral part of this selection.
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First of all, an airline has to assess the abilities of a candidate regarding a position.
For us the required qualities are obvious. By going through psychological questionnaire, the psy get a first picture.
The psychotechnics test are also an excellent clue to figure out the learning abilities of a wannabee. In our modern world where competition prevails, where fuel cost is increasing day by day, airlines do not want to spend extra money on training so they want to mesure how fast a candidate can learn, adapt himself to new and unexpected situation: a sim check shows the flying skills and level of a pilot but does not show how long it took him to reach this level!
Team work is essential in our job: between cockpit crew, cabin crew, ground staff , ATC, management, pax..etc Group exercices are made for this purpose:
How an individual interacts with others while dealing with problems solving, enigmas etc... It is a very cheap way for airline selection (much cheaper than sim!!) and a most companies have integrated the group exercise as a part of their selection for management positions (we are managers!).
At last but not least, an individual meeting with the psy is part of some airline interview: Does the candidate fit the position, what is is motivation, does he know the airline and company he is applying for, what is his background, studies...etc
You must not see the whole process as a way to sack or eliminate you!!
If a company is recruiting, that means that they need you!!
Take this as a way to show your motivation, your abilities, your will to join the airline, to be a plus and of course your love of flying.....
Good luck
For us the required qualities are obvious. By going through psychological questionnaire, the psy get a first picture.
The psychotechnics test are also an excellent clue to figure out the learning abilities of a wannabee. In our modern world where competition prevails, where fuel cost is increasing day by day, airlines do not want to spend extra money on training so they want to mesure how fast a candidate can learn, adapt himself to new and unexpected situation: a sim check shows the flying skills and level of a pilot but does not show how long it took him to reach this level!
Team work is essential in our job: between cockpit crew, cabin crew, ground staff , ATC, management, pax..etc Group exercices are made for this purpose:
How an individual interacts with others while dealing with problems solving, enigmas etc... It is a very cheap way for airline selection (much cheaper than sim!!) and a most companies have integrated the group exercise as a part of their selection for management positions (we are managers!).
At last but not least, an individual meeting with the psy is part of some airline interview: Does the candidate fit the position, what is is motivation, does he know the airline and company he is applying for, what is his background, studies...etc
You must not see the whole process as a way to sack or eliminate you!!
If a company is recruiting, that means that they need you!!
Take this as a way to show your motivation, your abilities, your will to join the airline, to be a plus and of course your love of flying.....
Good luck
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what about a captain at easyjet applying at BA and who has to pass some tests(again).
if he is not accepted, does it mean easyjet have not "so good "pilots?.
and about a pilot being accepted at BA and not at ryanair?
and what about all these psy tests you can get online and train your self?
I think the best is to be an average person with average score in everything, but what about a bad day, you score low because you didnt slept the night before?
do you know pilots being refused after passing these tests, and why?
hedges81 is right,i got some questions, same like 15 years ago, but this time I didnt fall in the catch!
you can answer in a way to make the company happy even if you disagree.
"do you have problem to fly with women", the answer is simple, but what about if you disagree really to fly with a woman.?
"if you have to start again, what would you do": answer is :learn to fly abd become a pilot. they want see how motivated you are. airlines want take high motivated people.not the one who wanted be a doctor or policeman.
that s just some exemples...
if he is not accepted, does it mean easyjet have not "so good "pilots?.
and about a pilot being accepted at BA and not at ryanair?
and what about all these psy tests you can get online and train your self?
I think the best is to be an average person with average score in everything, but what about a bad day, you score low because you didnt slept the night before?
do you know pilots being refused after passing these tests, and why?
hedges81 is right,i got some questions, same like 15 years ago, but this time I didnt fall in the catch!
you can answer in a way to make the company happy even if you disagree.
"do you have problem to fly with women", the answer is simple, but what about if you disagree really to fly with a woman.?
"if you have to start again, what would you do": answer is :learn to fly abd become a pilot. they want see how motivated you are. airlines want take high motivated people.not the one who wanted be a doctor or policeman.
that s just some exemples...
Last edited by A320rider; 28th Feb 2006 at 22:18.
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stop encouraging...
What the hell happened with this industry?Why is every airline asking for a TR and experience?Ok,you can get a TR,but how the **** am I gonna get experience if no airline will employ me without experience?
When I remember that my father got a job when he entered the flight school,all I feel is I wanna cry....
Will it change?I know no one can say it for sure,but please guys,give me some hopeeeee!!!!!
When I remember that my father got a job when he entered the flight school,all I feel is I wanna cry....
Will it change?I know no one can say it for sure,but please guys,give me some hopeeeee!!!!!
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you know, I talked recently with a retired captain. he told me the situation is crazy and he was sorry for us.
this guy, paid for his license(cpl,IR ), then got a job in a major.that was 50 years ago...
this planet is changing(not in good, in bad), the poors are poorer and richs richer.
we are just more humans on this planet(6.5 billiard), and we count to much on petrol.
we have now to take care of these poor countries who do not have fuel, and for this we have increased taxes.
And more we have to pay taxe, less rich we become(poorer we become, we are already poor),...
same problem for the immigration, retirement, social healthcare,...it is simply a slowly degradation of this planet and the airline industry is the first area to be affected....
since I know aviation, every year it is more expensive!
in 2020, we will have 10 workers for 8 retired!
we could reverse the situation, by bringing work in these poor countries, they need water and road.it take only 10 years to create a prospective country with even some airlines, but are we ready for it?are the politicians and the industry ready?
(and to all of you, please stop to encourage people to start flying, you can not even get a job!)
this is a general answer to your question, sorry for my bad english.
this guy, paid for his license(cpl,IR ), then got a job in a major.that was 50 years ago...
this planet is changing(not in good, in bad), the poors are poorer and richs richer.
we are just more humans on this planet(6.5 billiard), and we count to much on petrol.
we have now to take care of these poor countries who do not have fuel, and for this we have increased taxes.
And more we have to pay taxe, less rich we become(poorer we become, we are already poor),...
same problem for the immigration, retirement, social healthcare,...it is simply a slowly degradation of this planet and the airline industry is the first area to be affected....
since I know aviation, every year it is more expensive!
in 2020, we will have 10 workers for 8 retired!
we could reverse the situation, by bringing work in these poor countries, they need water and road.it take only 10 years to create a prospective country with even some airlines, but are we ready for it?are the politicians and the industry ready?
(and to all of you, please stop to encourage people to start flying, you can not even get a job!)
this is a general answer to your question, sorry for my bad english.
Last edited by A320rider; 1st Mar 2006 at 20:46.
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stop encouraging...
Please, would you stop encouraging young people to become a pilot, when you can not get a flying job yourself.Look at the number of unemployed pilots, do you think it is a good time to screw more people by giving them fake hopes...?
what kind of person are you?
if I had kids, I would never authorize them to try to be a pilot, only a PP.
why do you do that?
what kind of person are you?
if I had kids, I would never authorize them to try to be a pilot, only a PP.
why do you do that?
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oh dear oh dear.... where to start???
I dont really know to whom your post is addressed, as far as I am aware this forum is for people looking for advice, and to some degree encouragement. By encouraging the younger generation to persevere in achieving thier dreams we are not putting others at a disadvantage, we each succeed, and indeed fail on our own merits alone.
The reason there is a surplus of pilots is because it appears from the outside to be a tremendously desirable job!!!! not because people on this forum are encouraging them, the fact that someone makes thier way to this forum would normally indicate that they are doing thier research to decide whether or not thier career decision is a viable reality.
To be perfectly honest I wouldnt base a decision solely on what participants to this forum suggest, this is but one of many sources which may be perused in order to reach a well informed decision...
Tacho
I dont really know to whom your post is addressed, as far as I am aware this forum is for people looking for advice, and to some degree encouragement. By encouraging the younger generation to persevere in achieving thier dreams we are not putting others at a disadvantage, we each succeed, and indeed fail on our own merits alone.
The reason there is a surplus of pilots is because it appears from the outside to be a tremendously desirable job!!!! not because people on this forum are encouraging them, the fact that someone makes thier way to this forum would normally indicate that they are doing thier research to decide whether or not thier career decision is a viable reality.
To be perfectly honest I wouldnt base a decision solely on what participants to this forum suggest, this is but one of many sources which may be perused in order to reach a well informed decision...
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Just a quick question A320rider - I was under the impression that you and spaceman1000 where the same person - who therefore had a couple of jet hours or heavy TP experience - so instead of moaning all the time how about you get out of that chair your sitting in or point your browser away fromm PPrune and look at some jobs....or is it because your including your PPrune username on your CV that you haven't got a job? 
Be positive and upbeat and keep working at it and I'm sure we'll all succeed.
Why do we encourage others? Because its all about that one moment when your flying and you look out the window and you realise your doing the best job in the world, and one which you love.
Be positive and upbeat and keep working at it and I'm sure we'll all succeed.
Why do we encourage others? Because its all about that one moment when your flying and you look out the window and you realise your doing the best job in the world, and one which you love.
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A320
Everyone I know who actually takes responsibility for themselves, works hard towards their career, and has personality is getting a lot of interest or has a job. You have the wrong personality for a pilot, as you have shown by your persistent posting here. It is hardly surprising that you have no job. Despite the fact that you have been told that the market is stronger in the UK than in much of Europe you persist in the assumption that your problems will be encountered by everyone on a British-dominated website. You are therefore disingenuous and dishonest.
Ironic that you complain about your parents' attitude, then you say that you would be even worse, trying to control any children you have completely, even when they are adults. Why do you have the arrogance to demand what other people should do with their lives, just because of your failure? Seems to me like jealousy, that you want to stop people doing what you are incapable of doing.
Everyone I know who actually takes responsibility for themselves, works hard towards their career, and has personality is getting a lot of interest or has a job. You have the wrong personality for a pilot, as you have shown by your persistent posting here. It is hardly surprising that you have no job. Despite the fact that you have been told that the market is stronger in the UK than in much of Europe you persist in the assumption that your problems will be encountered by everyone on a British-dominated website. You are therefore disingenuous and dishonest.
Ironic that you complain about your parents' attitude, then you say that you would be even worse, trying to control any children you have completely, even when they are adults. Why do you have the arrogance to demand what other people should do with their lives, just because of your failure? Seems to me like jealousy, that you want to stop people doing what you are incapable of doing.
And......
Learning new skills 'for the love of it' is the right of everyone (in this case if you have shedload of cash, or can drive yourself to get it).
I'm approaching 50 and can afford it- just. If I was really well off, I'd do the licence just to prove I could. 50's too old if you need the work!
Your argument, if followed through generally, closes off virtually every occupation.
Peaple need to dream. Just look at all the whinging threads about Ts &Cs on pprune- No-one OUGHT to want to do it!
CG
Learning new skills 'for the love of it' is the right of everyone (in this case if you have shedload of cash, or can drive yourself to get it).
I'm approaching 50 and can afford it- just. If I was really well off, I'd do the licence just to prove I could. 50's too old if you need the work!
Your argument, if followed through generally, closes off virtually every occupation.
Peaple need to dream. Just look at all the whinging threads about Ts &Cs on pprune- No-one OUGHT to want to do it!
CG
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For all those who read this thread because of the header, take heed....
There are lots of people like 'A320Rider', the truth is the market, on this side of the pond, is picking up pretty well. Boeing and Airbus are taking record orders, these translate to 5-10 years worth of airline orders taking the industry into the next 20 years. Huge airport expansion across europe (not looking at EGLL here
) coupled with the rise of the loco's is making the oppotunities better. Money at the start is pretty c$$p and the life style can leave a little to be desired at the outset but, it is still fun, challenging and enjoyable and it does get better, but you need the toe in the door at the outset. Seeing London on your last sector at night on a crystal clear evening still takes my breath away!
Don't give up if thats what you wish, you will always find these nuggets in any job!!!
There are lots of people like 'A320Rider', the truth is the market, on this side of the pond, is picking up pretty well. Boeing and Airbus are taking record orders, these translate to 5-10 years worth of airline orders taking the industry into the next 20 years. Huge airport expansion across europe (not looking at EGLL here
) coupled with the rise of the loco's is making the oppotunities better. Money at the start is pretty c$$p and the life style can leave a little to be desired at the outset but, it is still fun, challenging and enjoyable and it does get better, but you need the toe in the door at the outset. Seeing London on your last sector at night on a crystal clear evening still takes my breath away!Don't give up if thats what you wish, you will always find these nuggets in any job!!!
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A320 rider. My milkman is due to retire next month, he's a cynical miserable W***** as well, may be you should forward me your CV and I can handle it to him, never know you might get his job!
Pm me if your interested!
Pm me if your interested!
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dude.....stop posting trash all the time and picking fights. why don't you sit down and study your atpl's and maybe one day when your all grown up, you'll be an a320flyer instead of an a320rider.
p.s. i slept with your mother
cheers
p.s. i slept with your mother
cheers
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A320,
you might be right,but I'll tell you what happened to me.
I graduated from the high school in 2002. and wanted to go to the flight school,but my father who is b737 instructor told me not to,because I would never gonna get a job.
From that flight school 30 pilot were recruited in 2004. and Type rated by an airliner and given a job.So that means that if I sterted in 2003. as I planned,I would probably be in that group,and would be flying jets right now.
I'm gonna go from my CPL/IR in oct/nov,don't know yet,but now I'm sure I'm gonna do it,with or without his help.
I think it's better to be unemployed for 2-3 years than work something you don't like next 40 years.
you might be right,but I'll tell you what happened to me.
I graduated from the high school in 2002. and wanted to go to the flight school,but my father who is b737 instructor told me not to,because I would never gonna get a job.
From that flight school 30 pilot were recruited in 2004. and Type rated by an airliner and given a job.So that means that if I sterted in 2003. as I planned,I would probably be in that group,and would be flying jets right now.
I'm gonna go from my CPL/IR in oct/nov,don't know yet,but now I'm sure I'm gonna do it,with or without his help.
I think it's better to be unemployed for 2-3 years than work something you don't like next 40 years.
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A320 - Why didn't you go to university, get a degree in a relevant subject (law, accounting, engineering etc etc), get a decent paying job and self fund the training that way. Take time out or go on contract for the larger training segments like the CPL and IR and use your holidays for building hours in the US or somewhere cheap, hot and fun. Then whilst you are working earning decent money you can be sending out your CV as well and if it never happens well at least you havent put all your eggs into one basket. You could even try and get a non flying job in an airline and develop your contacts that way. Or you could I suppose get huge loans and sit on pprune bleating about no one giving you a job.