stop encouraging... (merged with 'Is there any hope')
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Exactly - via CTC you can go straight into Easy with an fATPL and min hours if you pass the selection. Thought everyone knew that!
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Originally Posted by Send Clowns
guimaraes
I am not sure why you are talking about facts, without knowing a lot about the industry where there are few hard facts and many opinionated amateurs. I was warned against paying for a type rating even though I could find the money. It can be a help, bu can also be a hindrance in finding a job.
More than 100 airlines? For a start who is restricting themselves to airlines? There are more than 100 operators in the UK, let alone Europe!
Most of the people I taught, many of whom now have jobs, were not rich. They would be offended to hear people assume that if they were thin-skinned and not too busy enjoying their work!
I am not sure why you are talking about facts, without knowing a lot about the industry where there are few hard facts and many opinionated amateurs. I was warned against paying for a type rating even though I could find the money. It can be a help, bu can also be a hindrance in finding a job.
More than 100 airlines? For a start who is restricting themselves to airlines? There are more than 100 operators in the UK, let alone Europe!
Most of the people I taught, many of whom now have jobs, were not rich. They would be offended to hear people assume that if they were thin-skinned and not too busy enjoying their work!
So,it's easier for you to decide to take a loan and pay for your TR than me,because you it's easier for you to get a job.You can get a job across the world,and I can get a job in my country and in Asia and Africa.
So,when I say rich kids' job,I don't mean only about money,I mean that you guys from rich countries have advantage comparing to us from non EU countries...Plus money offcourse.
How many pilots out there are willing to pay a TR and to work for free a couple of months.A lot...And you can't afford that if you're not rich.
A fact.
1- stop encouraging students to become an airline pilot.
2-stop telling them to buy for a type rating
3-stop telling them that flying a plane as a commercial pilot is fun
4-do not answer from wanabee questions
5-be just negative (as I am)and moan the best you can
6-be realistic and destroy overconfidence or even confidence.
7-tell the truth about you, and how hard it is.
8-etc
2-stop telling them to buy for a type rating
3-stop telling them that flying a plane as a commercial pilot is fun
4-do not answer from wanabee questions
5-be just negative (as I am)and moan the best you can
6-be realistic and destroy overconfidence or even confidence.
7-tell the truth about you, and how hard it is.
8-etc
The fact that you seem to have failed the psychologist tests proves the system works. With an attitude like yours, the aeroplane falling to bits and the captain died of a heart attack, it seems you'd sit back, fold your arms and say we're f%%ked, and give up rather than putting up a struggle. I wouldn't want someone with such tendencies flying any plane that my family or friends were on.
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guimaraes
I entirely agree about the EU passport. I had assumed you meant it was a a rich man's game within the EU. I know people who have done well from all sorts of backgrounds. The ones that sometimes struggle the most are what I have heard termed "DBIs" - Daddy bought it! Some of them have the wrong attitude because they have not had to make sacrifices, or they buy their type ratings and hours then find they are stuck looking for only one type of job which they are not offered. I know people who have had to borrow money from all over, and work hard for scholarships, to keep flying and living after the course, but have got there in the end!
Good luck getting work, either in Serbia and Montenegro or in the EU!
I entirely agree about the EU passport. I had assumed you meant it was a a rich man's game within the EU. I know people who have done well from all sorts of backgrounds. The ones that sometimes struggle the most are what I have heard termed "DBIs" - Daddy bought it! Some of them have the wrong attitude because they have not had to make sacrifices, or they buy their type ratings and hours then find they are stuck looking for only one type of job which they are not offered. I know people who have had to borrow money from all over, and work hard for scholarships, to keep flying and living after the course, but have got there in the end!
Good luck getting work, either in Serbia and Montenegro or in the EU!
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Originally Posted by Send Clowns
guimaraes
I entirely agree about the EU passport. I had assumed you meant it was a a rich man's game within the EU. I know people who have done well from all sorts of backgrounds. The ones that sometimes struggle the most are what I have heard termed "DBIs" - Daddy bought it! Some of them have the wrong attitude because they have not had to make sacrifices, or they buy their type ratings and hours then find they are stuck looking for only one type of job which they are not offered. I know people who have had to borrow money from all over, and work hard for scholarships, to keep flying and living after the course, but have got there in the end!
Good luck getting work, either in Serbia and Montenegro or in the EU!
I entirely agree about the EU passport. I had assumed you meant it was a a rich man's game within the EU. I know people who have done well from all sorts of backgrounds. The ones that sometimes struggle the most are what I have heard termed "DBIs" - Daddy bought it! Some of them have the wrong attitude because they have not had to make sacrifices, or they buy their type ratings and hours then find they are stuck looking for only one type of job which they are not offered. I know people who have had to borrow money from all over, and work hard for scholarships, to keep flying and living after the course, but have got there in the end!
Good luck getting work, either in Serbia and Montenegro or in the EU!
I agree with you that rich kids sometimes struggle more.But,that's natural.They are not used to work hard,because everything they want,they get with their daddy's money.Offcourse,not all of them,but most of them certainly.You know,when I was 17,I worked whole year so I can afford to go to my cousin's house in the US and go to school.I had to go to school till 3PM,and after that I went to work till 9PM,and everything I saw in America was school and work,but at least I learned the language and learned how to fight for yourself.And I don't regret that I spent one of the most beatiful years by working and studying all alone in foerign country,10 000 miles from home.
Thanx,I wish you all the luck too...
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guimaraes
I think you will find my friend, rich or poor, that most people have made sacrifices. I too worked overseas for 5 years so I could afford pilot training............and im from a so called rich country.
Life is competitive. Nobody owes you a living. You make your own luck.
My best advice to you is get yourself down to Turkey. Lots of expansion there and they will probably favour a guy like you who would more than likely stay. You will need to make a visit and personal contacts.
Good Luck
I think you will find my friend, rich or poor, that most people have made sacrifices. I too worked overseas for 5 years so I could afford pilot training............and im from a so called rich country.
Life is competitive. Nobody owes you a living. You make your own luck.
My best advice to you is get yourself down to Turkey. Lots of expansion there and they will probably favour a guy like you who would more than likely stay. You will need to make a visit and personal contacts.
Good Luck
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Originally Posted by Dirty Harry 76
guimaraes
I think you will find my friend, rich or poor, that most people have made sacrifices. I too worked overseas for 5 years so I could afford pilot training............and im from a so called rich country.
Life is competitive. Nobody owes you a living. You make your own luck.
My best advice to you is get yourself down to Turkey. Lots of expansion there and they will probably favour a guy like you who would more than likely stay. You will need to make a visit and personal contacts.
Good Luck
I think you will find my friend, rich or poor, that most people have made sacrifices. I too worked overseas for 5 years so I could afford pilot training............and im from a so called rich country.
Life is competitive. Nobody owes you a living. You make your own luck.
My best advice to you is get yourself down to Turkey. Lots of expansion there and they will probably favour a guy like you who would more than likely stay. You will need to make a visit and personal contacts.
Good Luck
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Guimaraes - I got your meaning.
Take FTE for example - the Spanish bank will only approve a loan against UK property. Even if that were not the case, your property has got to be worth as much as the loan amount - difficult in lots of countries.
I'm selling my house to pay for my training. I can only do that because the housing market in the UK has seen a huge increase in values and added the price of the training onto the value of my house in the last three years. That's good fortune for me but outside of the UK the property market differes greatly.
Only problem is I've been working for ten years to buy a house and get it up to standard and now I have to say goodbye to it!
Take FTE for example - the Spanish bank will only approve a loan against UK property. Even if that were not the case, your property has got to be worth as much as the loan amount - difficult in lots of countries.
I'm selling my house to pay for my training. I can only do that because the housing market in the UK has seen a huge increase in values and added the price of the training onto the value of my house in the last three years. That's good fortune for me but outside of the UK the property market differes greatly.
Only problem is I've been working for ten years to buy a house and get it up to standard and now I have to say goodbye to it!
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do not sell your house for an aviation training, I am ready to sell my CAA license to buy a house, at least I could have something.A house, is much better than a license with no job at the end.
with a house you can have a life, a job close of where you live. And maybe a family ! so why all these people are selling their house to find themselves in trouble with a useless aviation degree?
this is one more reason why I can not encourage you to join our big jobless community!
@skywaves: you are a rich kid, only rich kids reply to my stupid posts!
with a house you can have a life, a job close of where you live. And maybe a family ! so why all these people are selling their house to find themselves in trouble with a useless aviation degree?
this is one more reason why I can not encourage you to join our big jobless community!
@skywaves: you are a rich kid, only rich kids reply to my stupid posts!
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Luke,
Sorry for the delay in replying, been working. Yes he got in through the CTC scheme. He applied got called, did their selection which he said was very tough and starts on Monday. He is 29 I think and been instructing for about 9 months.
Sorry for the delay in replying, been working. Yes he got in through the CTC scheme. He applied got called, did their selection which he said was very tough and starts on Monday. He is 29 I think and been instructing for about 9 months.
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A320rider has a few points:
Unless you have loads and loads of money, borrowing huge amounts to go through PPL/CPL/IR through a modular route is sheer madness (going through an integrated course and spending 60k with no income is even madder!).... I have done it (modular) and I am now crippled with debts....Fortunately, I have a good job that keeps me afloat, but things are very tight and it is going to take me a long time to clear the debt.
I am realistic and I know that with a fresh CPL/IR and about 250 hours, the chances to land that first job are very removed.... I am trying and will not give up, but like everybody else, wonder if I have made the right move. I have just enough money left to pay for an MCC. An FI rating is another 6k, I can't currently afford it, above all with all the debt I have.... I can hardly afford to pay for 1 hour of flying at the weekend....How am I supposed to remain current? Build some more hours? I have a house to pay, a car loan, a normal life, etc... what am I supposed to do....? Sell my house, live under a bridge? Go back to live with mummy and daddy? Give up my job and try to find "second class" flying jobs which pay peanuts?
Do I have to borrow even more money?
I am not moaning, but trying to paint a realistic picture of my situation which I believe might be similar to other people's.
So A320rider is not that wrong. People considering this career should think long and hard about the consequences, above all if they have to borrow money to do the training. It is very, very easy to borrow money, not that easy to pay it back. Think about it!
Aviation is a very competitive industry and it is very expensive to become "experienced" enough to be in a position to get an airline job (small operator, of course ), unless you are exceptionnally lucky or know the chief pilot.
Don't throw boiling oil on me please
FNav
Unless you have loads and loads of money, borrowing huge amounts to go through PPL/CPL/IR through a modular route is sheer madness (going through an integrated course and spending 60k with no income is even madder!).... I have done it (modular) and I am now crippled with debts....Fortunately, I have a good job that keeps me afloat, but things are very tight and it is going to take me a long time to clear the debt.
I am realistic and I know that with a fresh CPL/IR and about 250 hours, the chances to land that first job are very removed.... I am trying and will not give up, but like everybody else, wonder if I have made the right move. I have just enough money left to pay for an MCC. An FI rating is another 6k, I can't currently afford it, above all with all the debt I have.... I can hardly afford to pay for 1 hour of flying at the weekend....How am I supposed to remain current? Build some more hours? I have a house to pay, a car loan, a normal life, etc... what am I supposed to do....? Sell my house, live under a bridge? Go back to live with mummy and daddy? Give up my job and try to find "second class" flying jobs which pay peanuts?
Do I have to borrow even more money?
I am not moaning, but trying to paint a realistic picture of my situation which I believe might be similar to other people's.
So A320rider is not that wrong. People considering this career should think long and hard about the consequences, above all if they have to borrow money to do the training. It is very, very easy to borrow money, not that easy to pay it back. Think about it!
Aviation is a very competitive industry and it is very expensive to become "experienced" enough to be in a position to get an airline job (small operator, of course
), unless you are exceptionnally lucky or know the chief pilot.Don't throw boiling oil on me please
FNav
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fancynavigator,
I have more experience and more hours than you .
Airlines(turboprop operators) are turning down my applications .They worry I could leave them after my 500h on their multicrew aircraft.
Even if you have 1000-2000 hours, it does not mean you will get more chance.I have over 2000h(small a/c only) and they ask me if I have eavy jet experience.
the best is to get your head out of debts and problems,keep looking and apply,keep current with your IR.
At least you have a house, and somewhere to live with a normal life(friends, girlfriends, TV, a normal PAID job)...
I have more experience and more hours than you .
Airlines(turboprop operators) are turning down my applications .They worry I could leave them after my 500h on their multicrew aircraft.
Even if you have 1000-2000 hours, it does not mean you will get more chance.I have over 2000h(small a/c only) and they ask me if I have eavy jet experience.
the best is to get your head out of debts and problems,keep looking and apply,keep current with your IR.
At least you have a house, and somewhere to live with a normal life(friends, girlfriends, TV, a normal PAID job)...
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Fancy, get your MCC done ASAP your CV's will be going straight in the bucket without that one.
And for staying current my personal opinion is that 1 hour a month in a twin with an instructor shooting single engine approaches under the screens is far more productive than 4 hours in a SEP.
Unfortunatly I think A320 rider has fallen into the buy your type rating trap.
If you buy a jet rating you have cut out the majority of low hour jobs going. Turboprop operators have been stung way to many times by people leaving. The relative difference in earnings to a jet FO means that any reasonable bond is payed off by the difference in salary in less than a year. So they won't touch you. Currently there is alot of movement from the TP fleets into the jet fleets.
Turboprops are by far the market which is expanding the most within europe. Someone said at work that the sales of TP's in europe are level pegging with short range jets and before long will out strip them. The fuel burns in tp's when compare to jets are extremly low up to the 450NM range and the difference in the burn if you don't get your required level is measured in 10's of pounds instead of 1000's. As the Fuel price continues to increase the TP's will continue to out strip the economics of the jets on the short range routes. And god forbid they start taxing Jet A round europe there will be an even bigger shift to TP's. And now with the advent of the Q400's and saab 2000 and the like after taking into account the vectoring around the terminal areas the times are virtually the same. The kit up the front of these new TP's is really very good and is as good as, if not better than alot of jets about. The only thing really missing is an auto throttle.
The TP salary may seem poor compared to a Jet FO's but when you off set it against about where you will live and the fact that a LHS is generally in the offing within 3 years. Makes you down the line at 4 years alot more of a potential good catch if you really do want to go jet, than a type rating and sitting on your backside for 4 years unpaid or working as a FI, for that period.
My theory is that if you decide you must get a type rating, a TP's rating such as a ATR 42/72, Q400 or Jetstream 31 do your self more favours than a Airbus or Boeing rating. You might wonder why I say J31 as they seem to be getting phased out. Its very cheap in the grand scope of things including base training its under 10k. Not many jobs about but then again not many low hour pilots have it and it will get you out of the no type rating held stack. You will have shown you can do a type ratings and all the procedures and methods are virtually the same across all TP types.
I don't agree with multi crew type ratings being on the market to individuals to be honest. They should only be available to company sponsored pilots. But I doudt very much that this will change. To much money to be made flogging a PC terminal for 2 weeks and slots in the sim at hurrendous times in the night with TRI's who which if your lucky are semi-retired and are only doing to keep there YAK in the air without the wife bitching. If your unlucky its to keep the rug rats in private school while doing a full time airline job and paying for 2 previous partners plus kids.
And for staying current my personal opinion is that 1 hour a month in a twin with an instructor shooting single engine approaches under the screens is far more productive than 4 hours in a SEP.
Unfortunatly I think A320 rider has fallen into the buy your type rating trap.
If you buy a jet rating you have cut out the majority of low hour jobs going. Turboprop operators have been stung way to many times by people leaving. The relative difference in earnings to a jet FO means that any reasonable bond is payed off by the difference in salary in less than a year. So they won't touch you. Currently there is alot of movement from the TP fleets into the jet fleets.
Turboprops are by far the market which is expanding the most within europe. Someone said at work that the sales of TP's in europe are level pegging with short range jets and before long will out strip them. The fuel burns in tp's when compare to jets are extremly low up to the 450NM range and the difference in the burn if you don't get your required level is measured in 10's of pounds instead of 1000's. As the Fuel price continues to increase the TP's will continue to out strip the economics of the jets on the short range routes. And god forbid they start taxing Jet A round europe there will be an even bigger shift to TP's. And now with the advent of the Q400's and saab 2000 and the like after taking into account the vectoring around the terminal areas the times are virtually the same. The kit up the front of these new TP's is really very good and is as good as, if not better than alot of jets about. The only thing really missing is an auto throttle.
The TP salary may seem poor compared to a Jet FO's but when you off set it against about where you will live and the fact that a LHS is generally in the offing within 3 years. Makes you down the line at 4 years alot more of a potential good catch if you really do want to go jet, than a type rating and sitting on your backside for 4 years unpaid or working as a FI, for that period.
My theory is that if you decide you must get a type rating, a TP's rating such as a ATR 42/72, Q400 or Jetstream 31 do your self more favours than a Airbus or Boeing rating. You might wonder why I say J31 as they seem to be getting phased out. Its very cheap in the grand scope of things including base training its under 10k. Not many jobs about but then again not many low hour pilots have it and it will get you out of the no type rating held stack. You will have shown you can do a type ratings and all the procedures and methods are virtually the same across all TP types.
I don't agree with multi crew type ratings being on the market to individuals to be honest. They should only be available to company sponsored pilots. But I doudt very much that this will change. To much money to be made flogging a PC terminal for 2 weeks and slots in the sim at hurrendous times in the night with TRI's who which if your lucky are semi-retired and are only doing to keep there YAK in the air without the wife bitching. If your unlucky its to keep the rug rats in private school while doing a full time airline job and paying for 2 previous partners plus kids.
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A320rider - one doesn't own a house, one is owned by a house!
Mine costs ~£900 per month in mortgage and bills regardless of whether or not I am working (I'm a freelancer, by the way).
When I finish my training I will have no debt. The house will have seen to that. I'll also not have the £900 pcm millstone hanging round my neck. If I cannot find a job then I will freelance in the meanwhile, and since freelancing is part time I'll put all my other efforts into securing a job.
Even if I never find a job, the only thing I've lost is the house - I can get another house. The one thing I cannot get is another chance to 'try'.
No matter how much doom and gloom goes round here, there are those of us who don't want to live out our days with a 'what if' on our minds.
We will try!
Some of us will succeed.
Some of us will fail.
But ALL of us will know 'what if?'
Mine costs ~£900 per month in mortgage and bills regardless of whether or not I am working (I'm a freelancer, by the way).
When I finish my training I will have no debt. The house will have seen to that. I'll also not have the £900 pcm millstone hanging round my neck. If I cannot find a job then I will freelance in the meanwhile, and since freelancing is part time I'll put all my other efforts into securing a job.
Even if I never find a job, the only thing I've lost is the house - I can get another house. The one thing I cannot get is another chance to 'try'.
No matter how much doom and gloom goes round here, there are those of us who don't want to live out our days with a 'what if' on our minds.
We will try!
Some of us will succeed.
Some of us will fail.
But ALL of us will know 'what if?'
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A320rider......been flying for 26 yrs,never had a psy test(not that I remember anyway)....first time was last year,when I was applying to carry a gun in the cockpit....go figure that one.....by the way I passed
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Originally Posted by Luke SkyToddler
Not really on topic but question for delta and moggiee, are Flying Instructors really getting called by Easyjet now? I knew they'd lowered their minimums from 1500 to 500 multi crew, but that kind of surprises me? Did this chap really honestly only have 9 months instructing? And no contacts in the company?
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Another friend has just got a job, pays very well for a first job, and sounds like great flying.
A320
More completely incorrect information, and another suggestion that you are restricting yourself.
1000 hours in light aircraft gives people a much better chance, even for jets. My job requires 700 hours. The friend who got the job I mentioned above would have been flying a 737 months ago had he 500 hours - he passed the selection but they had invited him in error, mistaking his hours. Why would a turboprop operator or a light charter company ask about heavy jet hours? I would suggest you make sure you have 40 hours PIC under IFR on twins. If you have the personality to be a pilot (your posts here suggest not, but I don't know you so cannot judge) then you will walk into a single-crew charter job, earning about the same as a junior FO on a turboprop, but with much lower bond of a year or less. With 900 hours or so I had 2 firm offers and one that phoned me up just as I started training for the one I accepted. The job is brilliant!
Mad Jock
Good advice on TRs. I have a friend who flies ATRs, but when he got the speculative type rating he was approached by operators of other turboprops, including Dash 8s and J41s.
A320
Even if you have 1000-2000 hours, it does not mean you will get more chance.I have over 2000h(small a/c only) and they ask me if I have eavy jet experience.
1000 hours in light aircraft gives people a much better chance, even for jets. My job requires 700 hours. The friend who got the job I mentioned above would have been flying a 737 months ago had he 500 hours - he passed the selection but they had invited him in error, mistaking his hours. Why would a turboprop operator or a light charter company ask about heavy jet hours? I would suggest you make sure you have 40 hours PIC under IFR on twins. If you have the personality to be a pilot (your posts here suggest not, but I don't know you so cannot judge) then you will walk into a single-crew charter job, earning about the same as a junior FO on a turboprop, but with much lower bond of a year or less. With 900 hours or so I had 2 firm offers and one that phoned me up just as I started training for the one I accepted. The job is brilliant!
Mad Jock
Good advice on TRs. I have a friend who flies ATRs, but when he got the speculative type rating he was approached by operators of other turboprops, including Dash 8s and J41s.