First time passes - how important for that first job?
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Absolute donkey d*ck! I went for my first airline interview feeling exactly the same as you! "oh I got a partial pass in the cpl and dropped a groundschool exam... There was me.. "what will they think!!??..... im a failure!"....... They didn't even ask! I passed the verbal and numerical reasoning and got through the sim and now i fly scarebusses and its a piece of p1ss compared to initial flight training I promise!
good luck soldier!
good luck soldier!
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How many actually fail to complete the CPL?
Dear All
To all those who have been through the 'Mill' integrated' or 'Mod', as a PPL and wanabee CPL (I think), what is the drop off/failure rate during flight training? I hear of amazing ground school pass rates, but what about at the business end?
Cheers
S.F
To all those who have been through the 'Mill' integrated' or 'Mod', as a PPL and wanabee CPL (I think), what is the drop off/failure rate during flight training? I hear of amazing ground school pass rates, but what about at the business end?
Cheers
S.F
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DART,
Quote"Some airlines want medium(or even bad) copilots, they are not looking for the guy who will ask for a captain position in 1 year or will move to a biger airline to fly a 767 or a 777"
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RUBBISH!
NO AIRLINE wants a BAD co-pilot. If you have struggled to get a job in the past, maybe it's your self confessed brilliance that is letting you down!
There has never been a better time to get an aviation job, and yes airlines are having to lower their requirements, but I can assure you SAFETY is NEVER compromised! I know of several First Officers whom have been chopped recently from a very well known operator at the Line Training stage after a great deal of investment because they were not upto scratch. These so called "bad" co-pilots' are not what Airlines are looking for!
If you are so good, I can not believe you haven't got a job yourself if all these bad co-pilots are being succesful!
Good Luck, I think you'll need it!
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endofeng
Quote"Some airlines want medium(or even bad) copilots, they are not looking for the guy who will ask for a captain position in 1 year or will move to a biger airline to fly a 767 or a 777"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RUBBISH!
NO AIRLINE wants a BAD co-pilot. If you have struggled to get a job in the past, maybe it's your self confessed brilliance that is letting you down!
There has never been a better time to get an aviation job, and yes airlines are having to lower their requirements, but I can assure you SAFETY is NEVER compromised! I know of several First Officers whom have been chopped recently from a very well known operator at the Line Training stage after a great deal of investment because they were not upto scratch. These so called "bad" co-pilots' are not what Airlines are looking for!
If you are so good, I can not believe you haven't got a job yourself if all these bad co-pilots are being succesful!
Good Luck, I think you'll need it!
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endofeng
Join Date: Feb 2006
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hello endofeng,
I don't need luck, I need money!
I am not british and I do not live in UK, and I can assure you many guys in Europe are looking for a job.The situation is not so pink as some person can let you think, you just have to look at the number of people here on this forum who have a hard time to find a flying job.Have you look for a flying job yet?
This week I have received 3 negative answer from airlines(not even an invitation for an interview and I passed all my exams first time but one said they were taking guys with t/r on the 737 ), and I can guaranty you some airlines are not looking for futur captains but for medium copilots only, because a bad/medium/total failure pilot will stay longer...and if you have barely 200h, you have more chance than me, specially if you have deep pocket for a type rating+line training+work for free!!!!.
I know copilots who haven't been accepted for the upgrade course as a captain, because be a captain is an attitude, not just a job.You have some people when things go wrong prefer to wait on somebody else to fix the problem ;and as salaries these days are lower and lower , any medium or bad pilot will be a perfect copilot.
You don't have to be good or bad to get a job, it is just a question of who you know and how much money you are ready to spend!but again, each airlines have their own criteria(based on age, sex, race, and background...), and some say at 35yo or more, you are unable to learn and then they hire guys who failed their IR 3 times simply because they are 25 yo, white british skin ,and daddy has money...
Airlines don't want bad pilots I agree, but airlines take anybody (bad or good) based on other criterias which are financialy good for them.
first time pass has one big advantage, it is cheaper!...that's all.
I don't need luck, I need money!
I am not british and I do not live in UK, and I can assure you many guys in Europe are looking for a job.The situation is not so pink as some person can let you think, you just have to look at the number of people here on this forum who have a hard time to find a flying job.Have you look for a flying job yet?
This week I have received 3 negative answer from airlines(not even an invitation for an interview and I passed all my exams first time but one said they were taking guys with t/r on the 737 ), and I can guaranty you some airlines are not looking for futur captains but for medium copilots only, because a bad/medium/total failure pilot will stay longer...and if you have barely 200h, you have more chance than me, specially if you have deep pocket for a type rating+line training+work for free!!!!.
I know copilots who haven't been accepted for the upgrade course as a captain, because be a captain is an attitude, not just a job.You have some people when things go wrong prefer to wait on somebody else to fix the problem ;and as salaries these days are lower and lower , any medium or bad pilot will be a perfect copilot.
You don't have to be good or bad to get a job, it is just a question of who you know and how much money you are ready to spend!but again, each airlines have their own criteria(based on age, sex, race, and background...), and some say at 35yo or more, you are unable to learn and then they hire guys who failed their IR 3 times simply because they are 25 yo, white british skin ,and daddy has money...
Airlines don't want bad pilots I agree, but airlines take anybody (bad or good) based on other criterias which are financialy good for them.
first time pass has one big advantage, it is cheaper!...that's all.
Last edited by dartagnan; 27th Sep 2006 at 10:11.
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Dart, you don't half remind me of someone
Spaceman1000, A320rider?
You talk complete and utter crap, airlines recruit people who can operate their aircraft in a professional, and safe manner, they sometimes care about whether you get first time passes and sometimes don't. People like you don't get jobs in anything let alone flying, it's the same as any other professional job hunt!!
Maybe you just need a good woman!!!
Spaceman1000, A320rider?
You talk complete and utter crap, airlines recruit people who can operate their aircraft in a professional, and safe manner, they sometimes care about whether you get first time passes and sometimes don't. People like you don't get jobs in anything let alone flying, it's the same as any other professional job hunt!!
Maybe you just need a good woman!!!
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Sin, couldn't agree more!
DART,
I have a job, and unlike what you perceive as being the norm for guys straight out of training, my daddy didn't pay for me! I left my Integrated training (Which I paid for myself by selling my house/home to fund it) with first time passes in most of my training, with the odd hick-up here and there, and managed to get a job straight away with a well known TP operator whom I didn't need to pay copious amounts of money to for my type rating. I believe they employed me on the strength of my Interview, not how much money I had in my pocket (which was none), and I can assure you most of my friends were in the same position, and most have succeeded!
I firmly believe that your comments on medium/bad co-pilots being preferred to good ambitious pilots is absolute BOLL*CK*! Never heard such drivel, and to pull the UK white skin card is also CRA*. You clearly have a bee in your bonnet with regards to not yet finding a job, perhaps if you spent as much effort in an Interview as you do with your pathetic arguments on here you may have some luck!
Enough already!
Good Luck
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endofeng
DART,
I have a job, and unlike what you perceive as being the norm for guys straight out of training, my daddy didn't pay for me! I left my Integrated training (Which I paid for myself by selling my house/home to fund it) with first time passes in most of my training, with the odd hick-up here and there, and managed to get a job straight away with a well known TP operator whom I didn't need to pay copious amounts of money to for my type rating. I believe they employed me on the strength of my Interview, not how much money I had in my pocket (which was none), and I can assure you most of my friends were in the same position, and most have succeeded!
I firmly believe that your comments on medium/bad co-pilots being preferred to good ambitious pilots is absolute BOLL*CK*! Never heard such drivel, and to pull the UK white skin card is also CRA*. You clearly have a bee in your bonnet with regards to not yet finding a job, perhaps if you spent as much effort in an Interview as you do with your pathetic arguments on here you may have some luck!
Enough already!
Good Luck
------------------
endofeng
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As I read your post I couldnt help but laugh. To suggest an airline would select a "Bad" pilot as they could save money is absurd. Saftey and the quality of the crew is always the number one priority.
I think endofeng is right in that you have a bee in your bonnet about something. Until you change your attitude job hunting is only going to get harder!
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Implications of Failing CPL/ IR first time round with respect to job prospects?
Hi all,
Just wondering if any one out there has any idea of what the implications might be of failing ones CPL ot IR skills test first time round with respect to job prospects? Obviously it is preferable to pass everything first time, however does having a fail on your record doom you to the scrap heap?
Has anyone out there landed a nice airline job with a fail on your record?
If so, did you get it wit low hours (200 ish) or did you do something else, such as instructing, to "cancel it out" as it were?
Also, what is CTCs view on the matter? Has anyone got onto the ATP Wings scheme having failed a CPL/ IR test first time round?
Cheers for any replies,
Badboy.
Just wondering if any one out there has any idea of what the implications might be of failing ones CPL ot IR skills test first time round with respect to job prospects? Obviously it is preferable to pass everything first time, however does having a fail on your record doom you to the scrap heap?
Has anyone out there landed a nice airline job with a fail on your record?
If so, did you get it wit low hours (200 ish) or did you do something else, such as instructing, to "cancel it out" as it were?
Also, what is CTCs view on the matter? Has anyone got onto the ATP Wings scheme having failed a CPL/ IR test first time round?
Cheers for any replies,
Badboy.
Humus Motor
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About 14000 hours, 5 management posts, TRE etc etc..... Failed the NDB on my IR, failed hydraulics on my first tech exam. Didn't make a jot of difference.
Interviewed literally hundreds of pilots over the years and the only thing that makes me sit up with an arched eyebrow is multiple attempts at an exam/test.
As the previous poster said:
"Don't worry too much"
Interviewed literally hundreds of pilots over the years and the only thing that makes me sit up with an arched eyebrow is multiple attempts at an exam/test.
As the previous poster said:
"Don't worry too much"
Beacon Outbound
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Just about to start in my 4th job in commercial aviation.
I have never been asked about first time passes, nor have I ever been asked a question about marks for ground exams or whether I did modular or integrated.
It just doesn't seem to be an issue.
HTH
Gerard
I have never been asked about first time passes, nor have I ever been asked a question about marks for ground exams or whether I did modular or integrated.
It just doesn't seem to be an issue.
HTH
Gerard
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[QUOTE=badboy raggamuffin;2946034]
Also, what is CTCs view on the matter? Has anyone got onto the ATP Wings scheme having failed a CPL/ IR test first time round?
QUOTE]
I believe CTC require you to have first series passes to qualify.
Also, what is CTCs view on the matter? Has anyone got onto the ATP Wings scheme having failed a CPL/ IR test first time round?
QUOTE]
I believe CTC require you to have first series passes to qualify.
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Failed one particular test and was told by the then future employer, do the test again! Then i got the job on passing.
A prospective employer will hardly ever ask how many times it took. What does it matter. Ticks in the boxes are what count.
A prospective employer will hardly ever ask how many times it took. What does it matter. Ticks in the boxes are what count.
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It is preferable to pass everything first time because it is far cheaper and less time consuming , as far as most employers that I am aware of are concerned this has little relavance, they generally don`t ask. If you want to slip the `first time pass` in during an interview it won`t do any harm as far as flight tests go. It just depends on who is interviewing you and what they consider important. If the pilot member of the panel passed his/her flight tests first time they will be proud of that fact and it may have some import, if they didn`t then they won`t care. Most people could not give a stuff about the exams, these are widely regarded as a necessary evil, anyone that passes those first time `Hats off to you` perhaps you should get out more.
Thus far I have not been asked by a hire-car company how many attempts I had at my driving test , they always ask to see my licence though, as will a member of your interviewing panel, together with you log book so they can check and verify all those flight times in there?
Seriously now, don`t let it worry you.
Thus far I have not been asked by a hire-car company how many attempts I had at my driving test , they always ask to see my licence though, as will a member of your interviewing panel, together with you log book so they can check and verify all those flight times in there?
Seriously now, don`t let it worry you.
TightYorksherMan
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If someone fails a test - why should they be criticised for the rest of there lives!!!!
Does it mean if you failed your IR test in the 1960's then your still a dreadful pilot and are unable to be a training captain in later life........i dont think so!!!!!
Does it mean if you failed your IR test in the 1960's then your still a dreadful pilot and are unable to be a training captain in later life........i dont think so!!!!!