First time passes - how important for that first job?
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First time passes - how important for that first job?
Hey all
whats your opinion?
During my atpls, i only dropped P of F, but got it on the second atempt.
Im starting my hourbuilding, and comm training in a couple of weeks, and if i get first time passes on my cpl and IR, how will that exam re-sit effect me?
Ive been told, which is quite scary, that it is super critical not to fail any subjects, or you get binned during any airline application. Im sure that my exam re-sit wont matter once i have a 737 rating with 500 hours on type.
At the same time, how important is the difference between a first time, or first series pass on the cpl and IR.
Interested to hear from any pilots, especially in airlines, that had the same opinion or fears. How did it work out for you? Did it matter having only 1 missed exam
whats your opinion?
During my atpls, i only dropped P of F, but got it on the second atempt.
Im starting my hourbuilding, and comm training in a couple of weeks, and if i get first time passes on my cpl and IR, how will that exam re-sit effect me?
Ive been told, which is quite scary, that it is super critical not to fail any subjects, or you get binned during any airline application. Im sure that my exam re-sit wont matter once i have a 737 rating with 500 hours on type.
At the same time, how important is the difference between a first time, or first series pass on the cpl and IR.
Interested to hear from any pilots, especially in airlines, that had the same opinion or fears. How did it work out for you? Did it matter having only 1 missed exam
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Most airlines are only concerned that you have the licence, not your marks or resits. If your ATPL history is littered with resits and skills test failures, you might want to think about whether you're in the right field, but an odd dropped subject is not a disaster.
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FBSF,
Here's what you do. Go to the kitchen, make a cup of tea, sit down, take nice deep breaths and relax!!!.
No airline in the world gives a flying fig whether you failed the odd exam in your ATPL studies. And whilst we are on the subject, they also don't care what your average is either! All you have demonstrated is the ability to learn great volumes of useless ****e for the exams.
As to first time passes being required for a job, again utter toilet. Of all the working pilots i know (which numbers quite a few), i can only think of two examples of first time passes in everything. When I was interviewed they spent some time discussing my partial in the CPL. In the end, it turned out to be a positive point in the interveiw about how I learnt from my mistakes and in future blah blah blah.
However, don't adopt a lazy, slip shod, attitude towards flight training. I think it's harder to do a resit than the initial test and I would love to have passed everything first time. If only for the money it saves.
Here's what you do. Go to the kitchen, make a cup of tea, sit down, take nice deep breaths and relax!!!.
No airline in the world gives a flying fig whether you failed the odd exam in your ATPL studies. And whilst we are on the subject, they also don't care what your average is either! All you have demonstrated is the ability to learn great volumes of useless ****e for the exams.
As to first time passes being required for a job, again utter toilet. Of all the working pilots i know (which numbers quite a few), i can only think of two examples of first time passes in everything. When I was interviewed they spent some time discussing my partial in the CPL. In the end, it turned out to be a positive point in the interveiw about how I learnt from my mistakes and in future blah blah blah.
However, don't adopt a lazy, slip shod, attitude towards flight training. I think it's harder to do a resit than the initial test and I would love to have passed everything first time. If only for the money it saves.
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i have passed pof first time, but missed 2 or 3 on the 14.do you feel better?
I still dont have a job, but view english is not my first language, who can blame me specially when I know brits guys who failed 6-7 exams.
I would not bother, I know only 1 guy who pass all his exams first attempt.(he is still unemployed)
and i know one who failed all exams and are now employed (by dady)
I still dont have a job, but view english is not my first language, who can blame me specially when I know brits guys who failed 6-7 exams.
I would not bother, I know only 1 guy who pass all his exams first attempt.(he is still unemployed)
and i know one who failed all exams and are now employed (by dady)
Last edited by A320rider; 24th Feb 2006 at 15:05.
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A320rider, you don't know enough people. Most of the pilots I know got all 14 exams first time.
fatboyslimfast, don't worry about it. Sure, some companies might ask but most will never ask about theory exam passes. When you start applying for jobs you will see that very few application forms request theory exam details, and only one or two ask whether you passed the CPL and IR first time.
fatboyslimfast, don't worry about it. Sure, some companies might ask but most will never ask about theory exam passes. When you start applying for jobs you will see that very few application forms request theory exam details, and only one or two ask whether you passed the CPL and IR first time.
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Failed 3 ATPL exams got em all 2nd go, passed cpl and ir first go, flying job 5 months after completion and did not have to pay for a type rating either.
I think if anything airlines look more at your flying rather than the ground school, I guess for the same reason I am yet to discover or use a large portion of what I studied in the ATPL.
From your post I am guessing you are a modular student at Oxford, as that is what they said to most of us and was usually the reason they would not put you through to any airlines! Things I would like to hope have changed over the last few years, but dont worry work hard do your best you will get where you want to be if you stay focussed and determined.
It can sometimes seem like a very long road but keep going, good luck and we hope to see you on the line someday soon.
I think if anything airlines look more at your flying rather than the ground school, I guess for the same reason I am yet to discover or use a large portion of what I studied in the ATPL.
From your post I am guessing you are a modular student at Oxford, as that is what they said to most of us and was usually the reason they would not put you through to any airlines! Things I would like to hope have changed over the last few years, but dont worry work hard do your best you will get where you want to be if you stay focussed and determined.
It can sometimes seem like a very long road but keep going, good luck and we hope to see you on the line someday soon.
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Of all the students I taught in groundschool the one who has done the best in his career (in most people's terms - he flew jets from the start and has moved to a better airline very quickly. Not my favoured career, but he is happy) failed one subject 6 times, almost losing all his other passes for a second time around. The other who arguably did as well (first job 747F, although he was FE for a while) he failed a few papers too.
A certain well-known airline recruiter once pointed out to me that most people who make the decisions are pilots, and all pilots hate groundschool!
A certain well-known airline recruiter once pointed out to me that most people who make the decisions are pilots, and all pilots hate groundschool!
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Got all my groundschool exams first time.....HOWEVER got partial passes in both my CPL and IR tests first time and completed the failed bits on the second flights in each case. I got a good TP job for 2 years and then my first jet job.
SO........I don't know for sure but I would guess airlines would regard a 1st time IR pass as the most "impressive" qualification for a low hours person followed by 1st time CPL pass, THEN groundschool exams. In short I would say as long as you don't need to continually repeat each element of the training most airlines will consider you with other low hours people. No problem in failing P of F one time I would say.
SO........I don't know for sure but I would guess airlines would regard a 1st time IR pass as the most "impressive" qualification for a low hours person followed by 1st time CPL pass, THEN groundschool exams. In short I would say as long as you don't need to continually repeat each element of the training most airlines will consider you with other low hours people. No problem in failing P of F one time I would say.
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Cheers guys, you have really helped settle my nerves, hopefully i can first time passes in my CPL and IR. Failing that, are there any single female airline opps recruitment personel out there who fancy a date? I promise that i wouldnt just use our relationship to make it easier for me to get my first job. (well only to begin with)
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I failed more exams than that and have been through several airline selections - NONE OF WHICH I FAILED, and most of which I turned down.
As long as you have your licence the airline doesn't give a toss if you failed a couple of exams or even your skills tests!!!
As long as you have your licence the airline doesn't give a toss if you failed a couple of exams or even your skills tests!!!
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Just to support the other opinions, my ancedotal evidence based on the people I have studied with, about 60% pass the ATPLs first time. My other anecdotal observation is that this seems to have absolutely no effect on whether people get selected for interviews or not.
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failing exams
I know one guy who had to re-do every flying test he ever sat.. apart from the IR, and he's in the right hand seat of a 737. I passed everything except the IR, which I failed spectacularly the first time, and am also in the right hand seat of a 737. It took me a month to get the job after finishing.
One ground school exam..? I wouldn't spend a second worrying about it.
One ground school exam..? I wouldn't spend a second worrying about it.
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The airlines are looking more at the person than the licence. The world is changing and there is more emphasis on CRM and you will find more and more airlines adopting the BA Assessment style to find more about you on various levels.
You are more likely to get asked a number of HR quesions that will cover your experiences in training and employers seem more interested in how you dealt with personal problems and setbacks.
A percentage of people, usually those who have failed these types of interviews are bitter and struggle to see the sense in this style of assessment but it is the way the airlines are going.
Always study hard for your exams and flying licences but i would not dwell too much on any failures and treat it more as experience. To be honest i would rather fly with someone who has delt with failure that with someone who has never had it!!!
You are more likely to get asked a number of HR quesions that will cover your experiences in training and employers seem more interested in how you dealt with personal problems and setbacks.
A percentage of people, usually those who have failed these types of interviews are bitter and struggle to see the sense in this style of assessment but it is the way the airlines are going.
Always study hard for your exams and flying licences but i would not dwell too much on any failures and treat it more as experience. To be honest i would rather fly with someone who has delt with failure that with someone who has never had it!!!
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Ground School Exams
I'm currently completing an integrated course but required second attempts at two of the subjects in the groundschool syllabus. I've now passed them all and am sitting on a 91% average, however, can anyone advise as to the likely attitudes of potential employers to candidates who have required a couple of re-takes?
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ramon76 CTC requieres first time passes un flight skill tests...... for they Wings ATP programmes....
Actually, speaking from personal experience, that is not entirely true. CTC/airlines are looking for people with high standards and ability. And when you have little experience, the evidence for which could be extrapolated from passes in your studies and tests. They are also aware that we are all human and will have bad days as well as good. And when confronted with those bad days, they want to see evidence of grit and determination to pull yourself together, learn from the experience and improve. Also to see that blips in your own performance don't drag your spirits down (in simple terms that you 'get over it' ! ! !).
So, if you have a handfull of blemishes on your record, be prepared to discuss what went wrong and, more importantly, what you took from the situation to ensure you don't make the same mistake(s) again.
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Ahhhh, words of wisdom from Golden Monkey. Listen to him for he is wise and knowlegable........... and flies a 737 via CTC. Andy, did you manage to wow anyone with my CV ??
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A friend of mine completely buggered up all his ATPLs and had to sim them all again...
He is now flying for a charter airline out of a London airport
He is now flying for a charter airline out of a London airport
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Think it all depends on the airline. For instance Flybe were employing people straight into training without sim check if you achieved 1st time pass IR. If not, off to the sim you went!
It is more important to get 1st time passes for your 1st job, most Airlines aren't really bothered what you got, what your previous life was before flying if you have several thousand hours on type. All they want at the moment is the hours, and of course some kind of competancy.
So, albeit great to get 1st time passes in everything, the reality is most don't, and Airlines know this. But it does help in the odd case!
Good luck!
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endofeng
It is more important to get 1st time passes for your 1st job, most Airlines aren't really bothered what you got, what your previous life was before flying if you have several thousand hours on type. All they want at the moment is the hours, and of course some kind of competancy.
So, albeit great to get 1st time passes in everything, the reality is most don't, and Airlines know this. But it does help in the odd case!
Good luck!
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endofeng