How, and how long, to get that first job?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Uxbridge
Age: 55
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed this is not a integrated vs. modular debate
I suggest you re-read the question I put forward (which happened to be merged by a moderator) and provide appropriate feedback if you have experience of securing a job without the assistance provided by the integrated schools and their link-ups with the major players.
That's all - no debate, just plain information from those who have succeeded.
I suggest you re-read the question I put forward (which happened to be merged by a moderator) and provide appropriate feedback if you have experience of securing a job without the assistance provided by the integrated schools and their link-ups with the major players.
That's all - no debate, just plain information from those who have succeeded.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: North of CDG
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Started training at 32, modular (back to back) 05/2001. Finished MCC 01/2003. Then one season as Cabin Crew for a large charter outfit (no luck in networking with them from the inside), then 2.5 years as Flight Dispatcher. Got into a holding pool for a TP job yesterday.
Four things to keep in mind:
1/ CVs on their own are useless (unless you get real lucky)
2/ Get an airside job (typically dispatcher or FI) and start networking
3/ Never miss a chance to talk or pass a CV to the right person
4/ Never give up. Ever.
Cheers
Four things to keep in mind:
1/ CVs on their own are useless (unless you get real lucky)
2/ Get an airside job (typically dispatcher or FI) and start networking
3/ Never miss a chance to talk or pass a CV to the right person
4/ Never give up. Ever.
Cheers
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Frankfurt
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello,
started Jan 2001 until Jun 2002
-> intgrated
-> 200/15 hrs
-> no mcc
within the last 4 years:
many cv´s
2 intervies
no job
MCC
University
Today:
Rampagent in FRA
pre-degree at university
290/20 Hrs
MCC
SE / IR up to date
Fly sightseeing once in a while
2 intervies next month
we will see...
dont give up,
stay online and search
keep in contact with the smell of kerosin
fly anything, i would do so too.... but did not happen...
If nothing works the next 12 month...maybe dispatcher licence,
FI-Rating...but i will stay in the airline business!
Money is something, Fun is everything!
started Jan 2001 until Jun 2002
-> intgrated
-> 200/15 hrs
-> no mcc
within the last 4 years:
many cv´s
2 intervies
no job
MCC
University
Today:
Rampagent in FRA
pre-degree at university
290/20 Hrs
MCC
SE / IR up to date
Fly sightseeing once in a while
2 intervies next month
we will see...
dont give up,
stay online and search
keep in contact with the smell of kerosin
fly anything, i would do so too.... but did not happen...
If nothing works the next 12 month...maybe dispatcher licence,
FI-Rating...but i will stay in the airline business!
Money is something, Fun is everything!
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scroggs
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Egcc
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my experience, to a jet operator anything less than turbine time on a commercial aircraft in a two crew environment is considered as 'low hours'. I believe the term to be not necessarily as it is written, I think it is more about experience than hours......when I got my first jet job I had 950TT, of which 700hrs was single crew multi-engine IFR on piston twins up to C404 size. I was still considered 'low hours' and had to do exactly the same as the 200hr cadets that I started alongside.
However, to a turbo-prop airline I would broadly agree with Scroggs that 500hrs is the sort of time that starts to make you just look that little bit more experienced.
I would say that after qualifying with your circa 200hrs the next 300hrs make little difference to an airline, but they are some of the hardest to get your hands on! As I mentioned in the first paragraph, extend this up to the 1000hr mark for jet operators. After 1000hrs it comes down to the quality rather than the quantity, so you need to be 'progressing' if you want to work for an airline. 3000hrs of instructing is really not doing you any favours if you want to be considered serious about an airline job (ok if the market has slumped and it keeps you flying). Having said that I always recommend the FI rating if you don't get picked up straight away after qualifying. Just look at poor Startbahn who has only added 90hrs in the last four years. He is still at the bottom of the pile with others joining daily, and others climbing rungs on the ladder and leaving him behind. I know it can be a bitter financial pill, but if those four years had been spent instructing and then possibly flying some twins I think he could well have had a job with an airline by now......
As ever, good luck.
PP
However, to a turbo-prop airline I would broadly agree with Scroggs that 500hrs is the sort of time that starts to make you just look that little bit more experienced.
I would say that after qualifying with your circa 200hrs the next 300hrs make little difference to an airline, but they are some of the hardest to get your hands on! As I mentioned in the first paragraph, extend this up to the 1000hr mark for jet operators. After 1000hrs it comes down to the quality rather than the quantity, so you need to be 'progressing' if you want to work for an airline. 3000hrs of instructing is really not doing you any favours if you want to be considered serious about an airline job (ok if the market has slumped and it keeps you flying). Having said that I always recommend the FI rating if you don't get picked up straight away after qualifying. Just look at poor Startbahn who has only added 90hrs in the last four years. He is still at the bottom of the pile with others joining daily, and others climbing rungs on the ladder and leaving him behind. I know it can be a bitter financial pill, but if those four years had been spent instructing and then possibly flying some twins I think he could well have had a job with an airline by now......
As ever, good luck.
PP
Guest
Posts: n/a
JOB's Where to go?
hello all
I have recently finished high school and am persuing a career in aviation as commercial pilot...
After obtaining ATPL I was wondering if anyone could please give me some info on various airlines throughout the world.
I would just like to know about the hours, routes and all round sort of life style ect...
I like the look of Emirates and Etihad as i like the idea of living in middle east. However not sure if its the best airline to work for the moment. (AFTER READING PREVIOUS POSTS)
Any info would be greatly appreciated thanks alot
I have recently finished high school and am persuing a career in aviation as commercial pilot...
After obtaining ATPL I was wondering if anyone could please give me some info on various airlines throughout the world.
I would just like to know about the hours, routes and all round sort of life style ect...
I like the look of Emirates and Etihad as i like the idea of living in middle east. However not sure if its the best airline to work for the moment. (AFTER READING PREVIOUS POSTS)
Any info would be greatly appreciated thanks alot
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: İstanbul,TURKEY
Age: 42
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
200 Hours ATPL owner Hiring......
Hi all,
I live in Turkey and i am about to get JAA Frozen ATPL in December or so.It can be sometimes difficult to find a flying job in Turkey due to reasons.So could you please give some ideas for me about searching a job outside Turkey?Which airlines hire 200 hours new Frozen ATPL owners mostly??Where i could get more chance(it can be everywhere in World)?I am waiting for your important advices THank you very much
I live in Turkey and i am about to get JAA Frozen ATPL in December or so.It can be sometimes difficult to find a flying job in Turkey due to reasons.So could you please give some ideas for me about searching a job outside Turkey?Which airlines hire 200 hours new Frozen ATPL owners mostly??Where i could get more chance(it can be everywhere in World)?I am waiting for your important advices
THank you very much
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Best month or time of year to gain employment
Hello,
Just wondering if there is such a thing.
Once you have you fATPL, is there a particular month or time of year like spring, when you are more likely to gain employment with your first airline or does it not really matter these days...nothing to worry about.
Just a thought.
Interested in your opinion, cheers for now!
Just wondering if there is such a thing.
Once you have you fATPL, is there a particular month or time of year like spring, when you are more likely to gain employment with your first airline or does it not really matter these days...nothing to worry about.
Just a thought.
Interested in your opinion, cheers for now!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: northumbria (ideally)
Age: 45
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IR/MCC august 2005
FI job november 2005
Air Taxi job august 2006
Now 1100hrs 300multi with a bit of multi turbine every now and again !
I am slowly sneaking up that ladder, trying to make myself more and more employable by those big boys ! Fine tweaks to my CV added, and only a select few airlines that I would be really happy to work for are getting regular updates.
I might get critiscised for "select few" airline bombardment, but in reality I doubt that I would stay in the unselected airlines !
FI job november 2005
Air Taxi job august 2006
Now 1100hrs 300multi with a bit of multi turbine every now and again !
I am slowly sneaking up that ladder, trying to make myself more and more employable by those big boys ! Fine tweaks to my CV added, and only a select few airlines that I would be really happy to work for are getting regular updates.
I might get critiscised for "select few" airline bombardment, but in reality I doubt that I would stay in the unselected airlines !
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CPL /IR /MCC Completed April 2005 (whilst on 2 months unpaid leave).
Back to the aviation related desk job. June 2005, FI scholarship completed part time and finished by August 2005.
Oct 2005, gave up sensible, well paid job to instruct full time (But it was great fun)!!
April 2006 job on a TP (specialist aerial work). Had only 500 hrs when I started the job.
To Summarise:
-12 months of fairly rigourous job hunting (about 10-15 CV's per month).
-1 failed sim ride.
-2 or 3 good contacts in corporate flying that I think would have resulted eventually in an interview.
-Job was from 1 very lucky CV (and perhaps the aviation related previous desk job).
-No training costs since MCC
-Still enjoying the odd bit of instructing!
It all happened much quicker than I thought....never doubted I'd get a job eventually but realistically thought it would take about 3 years / 1000hrs.
GQ
Back to the aviation related desk job. June 2005, FI scholarship completed part time and finished by August 2005.
Oct 2005, gave up sensible, well paid job to instruct full time (But it was great fun)!!
April 2006 job on a TP (specialist aerial work). Had only 500 hrs when I started the job.
To Summarise:
-12 months of fairly rigourous job hunting (about 10-15 CV's per month).
-1 failed sim ride.
-2 or 3 good contacts in corporate flying that I think would have resulted eventually in an interview.
-Job was from 1 very lucky CV (and perhaps the aviation related previous desk job).
-No training costs since MCC
-Still enjoying the odd bit of instructing!
It all happened much quicker than I thought....never doubted I'd get a job eventually but realistically thought it would take about 3 years / 1000hrs.
GQ
Last edited by GuinnessQueen; 25th Oct 2006 at 17:55. Reason: Spilling
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: anywhere the job offer is!
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know the EUROPEAN way of aviation, but it appears to me, that you all seem to be targeting the airlines. There are a few of you stating that they are working for skydivers. You need to be different than the rest. Fly for some small dodgy operator and get some experience in your log book. It will make you more appealing to the big boys, but it will be the best flying you will ever do.
I understand that a few of you see yourself as getting on in age,but enjoy every moment of flying, cos you'll only be a systems monitor as soon as you're flying the jets. I have flown C172, 182, 206, Barons, Navajo, Metros, Saab 340s, and am now in the RHS of a B737.
My first job paid AU$100 a week. I did that for 10 months and had a ball. I made some great friends, but more importantly I learned how to actually fly! I learned more in those 10months than i did in the year of training previously. I constantly landed with 10knot tail winds, beach lands, and how to fly in VMC whilst the aircraft was only VFR rated. I learned how to make command desicions and to respect the weather. The early days in your career is your training ground. If you are flying as single pilot this is where your desicion making ability really begins, there is no one next to you saying what you should do.
you should really learn to walk before you run. I had 4000hours before getting into a jet, but that is the way it is down this way, and I wouldn't change it for all the tea in china. In fact, I'm now bored and am looking for a challenge. I would love to go back and fly a Navajo again, but it is the pay that is stopping me.
Go out there get some real experience and enjoying the hands on flying. I don't know how some of you can sit around and not fly just waiting for a phone call. IT"S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Convert your license go to Africa and try your luck. If still you don't get any flying well you can say your tried, and had a great time in the process.
I could could go on and on but I'll stop now. Don't feel hard done by if you are given an opportunity to fly an old piston, while your mate is flying a turbine, grab it it with both hands and enjoy. I had a mate with 2500hours on a C206 and loved every minute.
If you are dedicated and persevere you'll get there. GOOD LUCK
Keep the blue side UP!
I understand that a few of you see yourself as getting on in age,but enjoy every moment of flying, cos you'll only be a systems monitor as soon as you're flying the jets. I have flown C172, 182, 206, Barons, Navajo, Metros, Saab 340s, and am now in the RHS of a B737.
My first job paid AU$100 a week. I did that for 10 months and had a ball. I made some great friends, but more importantly I learned how to actually fly! I learned more in those 10months than i did in the year of training previously. I constantly landed with 10knot tail winds, beach lands, and how to fly in VMC whilst the aircraft was only VFR rated. I learned how to make command desicions and to respect the weather. The early days in your career is your training ground. If you are flying as single pilot this is where your desicion making ability really begins, there is no one next to you saying what you should do.
you should really learn to walk before you run. I had 4000hours before getting into a jet, but that is the way it is down this way, and I wouldn't change it for all the tea in china. In fact, I'm now bored and am looking for a challenge. I would love to go back and fly a Navajo again, but it is the pay that is stopping me.
Go out there get some real experience and enjoying the hands on flying. I don't know how some of you can sit around and not fly just waiting for a phone call. IT"S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Convert your license go to Africa and try your luck. If still you don't get any flying well you can say your tried, and had a great time in the process.
I could could go on and on but I'll stop now. Don't feel hard done by if you are given an opportunity to fly an old piston, while your mate is flying a turbine, grab it it with both hands and enjoy. I had a mate with 2500hours on a C206 and loved every minute.
If you are dedicated and persevere you'll get there. GOOD LUCK
Keep the blue side UP!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: scandinavia
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Integrated CPL/IR finished november 04, Just finished the skill test on twin TP today. TT about 800 hrs.
Looking forward to start the line training now
Just believe in keeping applying and finally one will get that job!!!
Looking forward to start the line training now
Just believe in keeping applying and finally one will get that job!!!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: England
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any Jobs out there...?
I'm just in the process of completing my ATPL and should (fingers etc crossed) have it bagged by end of Feb07. Just thought I would test the water and see if anyone can tell me (honestly) what recruitment is likely to be around Feb time....? Much obliged!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hampshire/Surrey
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think anyone in this industry can really tell you what recruitment is going to be like from one month to the next!
However, in general there is a decent amount of jobs around at the moment (compared to when I started looking in 2002). If you are an ex-mil Herc boy I'd suggest you fill in a BA RAFCARS application form online ASAP.
You don't need to have an ATPL at the time of applying just have one when you begin working for them. Look at http://www.britishairwaysjobs.com/ba...ormsubmit4.y=7
However, in general there is a decent amount of jobs around at the moment (compared to when I started looking in 2002). If you are an ex-mil Herc boy I'd suggest you fill in a BA RAFCARS application form online ASAP.
You don't need to have an ATPL at the time of applying just have one when you begin working for them. Look at http://www.britishairwaysjobs.com/ba...ormsubmit4.y=7
