To all recently employed F/Os

[Callsign Kilo]

Just wondering how long and how many attempts it took for you to get an interview and then selected for a job? What was your background and do you have any advice for those training at the moment?

Many thanks

CK

[checks-complete]

4 years and enough cv's and covering letters to fill a small caravan. Eventually changed tact just as things perked up and ended up with five calls for interview. 'Keep at it, it will happen' is, in my humble opinion, not necessarily great advice. If what you’re doing isn't working for you, think about what else you could do, or how can you change what you are doing.
I made the mistake of forgetting that the people I was applying to are humans, and recruit similar people.
It certainly helps if you have a friend pushing your cv from the inside, however I had no such help so don't worry too much if you don’t.

[lharle]

I have 900h , both FAA and JAA licenses, I am teaching under FAA licenses during the WE in Paris.
It took me about 18 months to have my first interview for a self sponsored TR with parc aviation that I didn't make;
A week after I had an other one to fly a cessna citation bravo based in Le Bourget and I made it;
I will strat my TR in January.
Before that I was desperate, I was sending around 50 CV per month.
Keep working, it will happen.

[flying log]

By 'attempts to get an interview' do you mean job application forms filled in or number of CV's sent on spec?
The latter doesn't really count in my opinion because it is only an attempt to get your CV on file in a very small hope that it will be pulled out when the airline in question is recruiting, by which time they probably would have forgotten about it anyway.
Which leaves the second option, the job application. If you have one of these, it is probably fair to say that the airline is recruiting and so you have a fair chance of getting an interview.

It's about putting your energy in to the right places. There are many airlines that don't have an application form or only give you one if they like your CV in the first place...see above... therefore you need to be in the know. This is where networking comes in very handy. By knowing the right people (or at least being on speaking terms with them) you may be able to find out when recruitment is to take place and jump the gun. Usually by the time you hear or read "what questions will greatbigairline ask me" it is too late, they already have their candidates in place. Many of these will be personal recommendations. It has been said many times before. Network.

I realise I labour the point, but I can answer the other point in your question at the same time. When I decided that I would change career to become an airline pilot I knew no one in the industry. I took the modular route (cost) and immediately after my IR got an instructor rating as jobs were few and far between. I instructed for 18 months and had 4 interviews with airlines during that time. All 4 were a RESULT of knowing somebody. Not necessarily a direct recommendation (one of them definately was, another possibly). The people kind enough to help I met training/instructing.

I know what your thinking, and you're right - 3 huge disappointments. However, if it wasn't for those I would not have had the experience to get the last one and believe me when it happens it is the best feeling in the world.

I think good advice is given above, learn what isn't working and keep adapting. Don't send to one airline something that didn't work for another. There is a chance that the first airline got it wrong but it's more likely to be you!

Finally, I can't reccomend strongly enough that you attend one of Pilot Pete's interview seminars. I'm not sure if he is still running them since he got his command, interviewees will be poorer for it if that's the case. you will find a link to his site on pprune somehere.

Good luck

[Longchop]

5 years to get the license....

6 months to get the first job.....(TP Job)..........One batch of approx 50CV's followed by continuous nagging of the CP of the two ailrines i wanted to work for!!

[737atlast]

Guys,

Took me three years to find employment, enough Cvs which if piled up would go up to FL340!

Decided to attain a 737 type rating, and after 5 months of having the type rating achieved a position in a very reputable UK airline. - luck and commitment.

Never had a single interview for the whole time until the one that secured me the job.

I think that everyone in employment now should remember how hard it can be to attain the job, as a lot of experienced guys dont realise how hard it can be.

Good luck with the hunt

737atlast

[747 Downwind]

One year to get first 'airline' related job (flight ops), two and a half years to get first F/O job. SSTR 737 with line flying.. one month to get job after that. Funnily enough did get an interview with a turbo-prop regional as was recommended by my previous FTO.. had to turn it down as I was half-way through my type-rating. Nothing came of the C.Vs.. got a few written rejections better than nothing!

Keep plugging away.. bash out the C.Vs, consider going and visiting airlines (something I didn't do ). Network with other pilots, flying schools. Keep medical and IR current (even if on FNPT II). If nothing happens within 1-2 years (the time is dependent on you, this is just my personal preference) then consider making a further step forward. If you can't get air taxi work or just GA flying, then consider type rating or instructor rating (I know it's money, but sadly it's what this game is all about from day 1).

The longer you are out of flight school the more 'discrimination' if such a word can be used, you will be subjected to. Both BA mainline and BA citiexpress rejected me because more than twelve months had elapsed since my initial IR (although I met all their other criteria). Therefore, that is one reason why I decided to make that further step forward.

Good luck
747 Downwind

[RYR-738-JOCKEY]

The key-word is quality, not quantity. You need to stand out of the crowd. Show them what they want to see; devotion, motivation, recommendations etc. Even if you don't have any references, you could always mention that a specific Capt recommended you to apply. Be slick. Use your elbows and get ahead of the queue. Create a convincing story, and point out your ambitions and plans, even if it's not entirely true. You have to sell yourself. As I see it, the phone call is the application, the one in paper is just put on file.

[haughtney1]

18 months for the license conversion (ICAO to JAA) then another 8 months of CV's, phone calls, and personal visits before the first job (part-time). Another 8 months of similar endeavour before full-time employment was offered. (and just like buses arriving...I had 4 offers on the table within 1 week of accepting my first job..and they keep rolling in )
Keep at it, show the recruiters you are determined

cheers H

Just got this email today..funny thing is..I..only I applied 18 months ago

Thank you very much for completing our on line application form for a pilot position with Thomas Cook Airlines. We very much regret to inform you that on this occasion you were unsuccessful.

[Gufo]

After the licence, 10 months spent with the compulsory duty in the military. Quite some glider towing for free in the few days off. After that, 4 months spent "networking" the GA sector in LIN, which ended up in a Piaggio Avanti right seat
And, well, another three years to get to sit on a liner.
Just work your way up, step by step: things will happen, if you help them!

[Orion Man]

Good luck guys. There appears to be a lot of jobs out there at the moment and the climate is the best I can remember for a long while.

Perseverance will pay off.

Regards

Orion Man

[portsharbourflyer]

Several of you have mentioned personal visits to airlines / flight operators, now I found that method was extremely effective for securing my first instructors job; but I frequently read that several airlines do not like people turning up on the "doorstep" making job enquiries, how did you gauge or know which operators this was considered an acceptable practice.

[haughtney1]

Ports.....

the simple answer is you cant, do your research..network..whatever it takes

[portsharbourflyer]

Thanks for the reply.

[moku]

From the finishing the CPL/IR and MCC:

3 interviews and 8 months to get a job offer, then another 8 months in the holding pool!

M.

[Arrowhead]

Two months until first interview and then held in holding pool for 3 months until started - on the Eaglejet A320 scheme. Then took one year of line flying to recoup the rating/"line training" costs (for line training, read one month of training then 3 months as regular line pilot.....)

If you can find the money for the rating and the line training, things can move very quickly indeed. And you can get straight on a 50-70 tonne jet.

[ATP_Al]

I got my frozen ATPL 10 months ago and got a multi engine piston job the next day. I had three interviews for mutli crew turbine jobs within six months of finishing my training. Two led to sim rides/further interviews and one to an offer of an F/O job starting early next year.

Like 738-jockey I think that the quality of your applications is more important than quality. I only sent CVs to around 30 companies and was careful to avoid bombarding them with constant letters and phone calls. What I did do was spend lots of time tailoring CVs and cover letters to the individual companies I applied to. For example, if an airline you're applying to has just opened a new base or route, mentioning it in your letter shows that you're really interested in the company and it's future.

You do need to patient; Even when you're doing all the right things it can take a long time for a company to come through with an interview simply because they don't have any vacancies or the time to run a selection process.

However the best piece of advice I could give would be to stay current. Unless you fly on a regular basis, the value of your training starts to depreciate the moment you leave your FTO. The pilot who flies anything he can get his hands on will be in a much better position than his friend who goes back to his old day job. In my opinion, you should apply to small operators such as parachute clubs, gliding clubs, traffic reporting companies etc FIRST and then look at the airlines. That way you'll have a foot on the ladder and something to build on.

I know money is tight, but there are plenty of opportunities to build experience without hiring aircraft or paying for your FI rating, you just have to spend some time looking. Also, make sure you regularly read over your groundschool notes and practice briefing from approach plates, doing loadsheets and planning IFR flights. It might sound stupid but it's free and will help keep you sharp. You never know when you'll need those skills.

Good luck,

Al

[fly-half]

I recommend finding ANY work in the aviation industry, preferably with an aircraft Operator. If you are fortunate, it can be a way in through the back door but even if that doesn't happen then it is something aviation-related on your CV. It can be invaluable experience and will be of great benefit to you as a pilot to know what goes on behind the scenes. Everyone has the same flying qualifications so it is difficult to stand out from the crowd. If you are working in the industry, you could give the positive impression that you are 'prepared to get your hands dirty'. It is also a great way to network amongst people in the industry and you never know who the people you meet will know.

After I qualified I lived in hope of that elusive 'lucky break' and spent a lot of time staying at home writing letters and sending my CV and making phone calls. But I was unemployed and it just didn't look good after a while. After 4 months I realised I should try and beef up my CV with something worthwhile and looked at any work in the aviation industry. I was about to start working as a baggage handler when I was lucky to get a job in Operations for an airline. I worked for them last summer and autumn for 10 months and enjoyed it very much - it paid off because I passed an internal recruitment selection and I started a training course in Jan 2005!

So as a summary in my opinion, the benefits of working in the aviation industry in another role are :

1. Excellent experience for yourself as a pilot later on.
2. Something worthwhile on your CV.
3. The chance to participate in an Operator's internal pilot recruitment.
4. Excellent networking opportunities.
5. You give yourself a greater chance of being 'in the right place at the right time'.