logan air
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is either a commercial decision or else a "shooting themselves in the foot" decison using oxford grads at Loganair.
If I may explain, Loganair are a feeder airline for other airlines just like coca-cola championship teams provide players for the premiership (or rather nowadays premiership teams get most of their players from abroad, just like the airlines get their pilots, but I digress), therefore Loganair pay relatively low salaries to their pilots as they know they are a steppingstone for pilots.
If they employ oxford grads they know they will move on as an oxford grad ideally wants to spend £60k and fly a jet, not a turbo-prop. Thus do they do this deliberately knowing that they will not stay long and get increments on their salary and various benefits related to length of service (the commercial decision)? Or do they employ Oxford grads expecting them to be career pilots and pay for their TRT only for them to jump ship when a jet job comes along (the shooting yourself in the foot decision)? Either way I don't know why Loganair use Oxford grads as I, after spending £60+k would obviously want a jet job, however would use Logan as a stepping stone to my objective if nothing came up straight away.
If I may explain, Loganair are a feeder airline for other airlines just like coca-cola championship teams provide players for the premiership (or rather nowadays premiership teams get most of their players from abroad, just like the airlines get their pilots, but I digress), therefore Loganair pay relatively low salaries to their pilots as they know they are a steppingstone for pilots.
If they employ oxford grads they know they will move on as an oxford grad ideally wants to spend £60k and fly a jet, not a turbo-prop. Thus do they do this deliberately knowing that they will not stay long and get increments on their salary and various benefits related to length of service (the commercial decision)? Or do they employ Oxford grads expecting them to be career pilots and pay for their TRT only for them to jump ship when a jet job comes along (the shooting yourself in the foot decision)? Either way I don't know why Loganair use Oxford grads as I, after spending £60+k would obviously want a jet job, however would use Logan as a stepping stone to my objective if nothing came up straight away.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Alba sor
Posts: 575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having lived in Scotland for a while (and having moved South), Scotland isn't that cheap, especially on a Loganair FOs salary. The weather's better here and the people are nicer as well.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Crinkley Bottom
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
smith:
A bit naive if you don't mind me saying so... I went to Oxford and I didn't feel that I deserved nor necessarily wanted to jet job to start. Now that I am on jets, I am grateful for starting my career on turboprops! Loganair is a very good start so if I were you I would consider them seriously as a first move! I have never worked for Logan by the way!
Where you start your career is irrelevant but where you end up at the end is the most important thing to consider. Loganair is a good start with good terms and conditions for a turboprop operator where you have a chance to still do some proper flying and enjoy yourself before you get onto a Jet where the flying will get boring in comparison! Flying a jet is easy compared to a prop and especially in comparison to the island flying that Loganair does. It provides a good grounding for you to start your career.
The OAT graduate is attractive to Loganair for a few reasons:
o Full training history is easily obtained from Oxford so hopefully easier to weed out any weak operators. Especially those whose visual flying skills might not be up to scratch since the flying with Loganair can be demanding.
o They are 'guaranteed' F/Os for at least a couple of years since they won't be command hungry for a while. That is providing they stay for their bond but unless you have a surplus supply of cash then leaving is probably not on the top of your list until the bond has expired!
If they employ oxford grads they know they will move on as an oxford grad ideally wants to spend £60k and fly a jet, not a turbo-prop.
Either way I don't know why Loganair use Oxford grads as I, after spending £60+k would obviously want a jet job, however would use Logan as a stepping stone to my objective if nothing came up straight away.
Where you start your career is irrelevant but where you end up at the end is the most important thing to consider. Loganair is a good start with good terms and conditions for a turboprop operator where you have a chance to still do some proper flying and enjoy yourself before you get onto a Jet where the flying will get boring in comparison! Flying a jet is easy compared to a prop and especially in comparison to the island flying that Loganair does. It provides a good grounding for you to start your career.
The OAT graduate is attractive to Loganair for a few reasons:
o Full training history is easily obtained from Oxford so hopefully easier to weed out any weak operators. Especially those whose visual flying skills might not be up to scratch since the flying with Loganair can be demanding.
o They are 'guaranteed' F/Os for at least a couple of years since they won't be command hungry for a while. That is providing they stay for their bond but unless you have a surplus supply of cash then leaving is probably not on the top of your list until the bond has expired!
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BFS
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Remember logan don't require you to pay a TR. You sign the papers so that if you leave you are saddled with it. Stay 2 years and you don't pay a bean. Given this I fail to understand why people are paying for jet ratings. Get a couple of years TP time and take your pick of jet jobs. You'll have had a great time on TP's, your hand flying will be excellent and you can take your pick of jet jobs......... Think about it
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Crinkley Bottom
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You still have to provide the money up front with Logan and you get it paid back in monthly instalments. A practise I don't agree with but I am only a man for the traditional bonding scheme that we don't see very much nowadays!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What use is a SAAB TR anyway unless you are employed with Logan. All I am saying is, on a busines/staff turnover point of view I would have thought that a company like Logan would have employed a more senior age group, with no need to relocate ie living in Scotland. This type of employee, through anecdotal evidence only, would be more likely to stay with Logan longer thus providing the airline with continuity in staff and actually, hiring and firing costs money to the HR department. Any big company I have worked for in the past have always done everything they can to keep you, such as profit sharing, share schemes, extra holidays for length of service etc as they know that key staff resignations are disruptive to their business.
The oxford pup is more likely to jump ship imho and head south for the lure of a shiny new than the more mature, home based, modular guy (purely anecdotal evidence again), but maybe this is what Logan prefer, a constant turnover of pilots. I don't know if this is the case but as I say it is imho.
The oxford pup is more likely to jump ship imho and head south for the lure of a shiny new than the more mature, home based, modular guy (purely anecdotal evidence again), but maybe this is what Logan prefer, a constant turnover of pilots. I don't know if this is the case but as I say it is imho.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BFS
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Traditional bonds are great. Unfortunately small companies like Logan kept getting their fingers burned by - you guessed - the above mentioned young low hours guys who move up to Scotland one day and the next day are sending CV's to jet operators trying to get back south now they have a few hours on a TP. They then do the dishonourable thing and skip their bond. Which would cost the airline a fortune to chase. This is what has ruined it for people coming through now. To be fair to Logan they could get away with not paying you back the TR cost at all these days.
Smith your last post is very valid and is a question which is asked a lot up here. No-one likes staff turnover and it is the real bain of the TP airlines life. Perhaps a longer term outlook would serve them better. If you look at all the Logan 'old timers' they are all locals who love the stability and security of the job they are in. Not to mention batting round Scotland VFR on cracking days!!!!
Smith your last post is very valid and is a question which is asked a lot up here. No-one likes staff turnover and it is the real bain of the TP airlines life. Perhaps a longer term outlook would serve them better. If you look at all the Logan 'old timers' they are all locals who love the stability and security of the job they are in. Not to mention batting round Scotland VFR on cracking days!!!!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Crinkley Bottom
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airlines like Loganair are accustomed to the fact that there will be a high turnover of pilots, especially when the job market is good like it is at the moment. The middle aged Scot who lives near a Logan base would be the ideal candidate, however the job market is very buoyant in Scotland as a whole and the numbers of ideal candidates for Loganair are dwindling fast... hence the apparent increase in demand for low hours integrated candidates. They need crews to fill their aircraft and there are not many potential long term employees out there. Instructors are in some cases getting snapped up very quickly by a variety of airlines in Scotland. If they get a couple of years out of you then I am sure Loganair would be satisfied with that!
To answer smith's question... A Saab TR is useful since it gives you sound flying experience in a modern prop enabling you to broaden your horizons for that next move!
To answer smith's question... A Saab TR is useful since it gives you sound flying experience in a modern prop enabling you to broaden your horizons for that next move!
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Alba sor
Posts: 575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yogi bear
Any big company I have worked for in the past have always done everything they can to keep you, such as profit sharing, share schemes, extra holidays for length of service etc as they know that key staff resignations are disruptive to their business.
However, it has to be said Yogi bods do have it better than in some of the 'dictatorship' airlines out there, although Scott probably thinks he still runs a dictatorship...
The middle aged Scot who lives near a Logan base would be the ideal candidate, however the job market is very buoyant in Scotland as a whole and the numbers of ideal candidates for Loganair are dwindling fast...
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: HON121º/14 NM
Posts: 664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Meeb: the 'here' that I referred to is the 'selfish South' that you referred to, and it is precisely because of attitude like that from alot of the natives (not all, but alot) that I'm glad I made the move.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Alba sor
Posts: 575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Firestorm, sorry to hear that, but as you no doubt know there are many 'Mexicans' working for Yogi who would not live anywhere else as they love it here. Indeed, in most airlines who have bases in Scotland the majority of their crew (Flight deck) are from south of the border, so I think 'attitude' is a 2 way street!
On the other topic, JM was a pilots rep at one point if I remember right, so he crossed the floor then eh...? oh dear...
On the other topic, JM was a pilots rep at one point if I remember right, so he crossed the floor then eh...? oh dear...
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It matters not one jot which side of any border you happen to reside.
Apart from the usual requirements of a UK/JAR licence, right of abode in the UK, no criminal record etc etc, a mature professional approach will go a long way to persuade Loganair to employ you.
With a number of guys looking to move on in the near future, recruitment will be a gentle trickle for sometime.
The route experience you will acquire flying the Saab is ideal training as part of your initial apprenticeship.
With 1000+ hours TP, you are ideally place for the move onto jets.
Apart from the usual requirements of a UK/JAR licence, right of abode in the UK, no criminal record etc etc, a mature professional approach will go a long way to persuade Loganair to employ you.
With a number of guys looking to move on in the near future, recruitment will be a gentle trickle for sometime.
The route experience you will acquire flying the Saab is ideal training as part of your initial apprenticeship.
With 1000+ hours TP, you are ideally place for the move onto jets.
