Help-air atlantique sponsorship vs OAT (merged)
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Help-air atlantique sponsorship vs OAT
Hello all,
I, as many others 17 year olds, wish to become a commercial pilot and have a dilemma. Obviously i do not wish to pay the 60k + fees for an integrated course at Oxford Aviation training but that is my plan. I have looked at the Air atlantique sponsorship program and the entry requirements are the usual GCSE's and a PPL with 60-80hrs. Now do i go splash out on a ppl and then apply to air atlantique with a possibility of being turned away and then having to pay 60 k more for the fATPL training at Oxford or do i just go for Oxford? The first option is the more expensive if i fail but 60k cheaper if i make it. Oxfod do not offer much of a discount for people who have already obtained a ppl.
Thanks for your time!!
Nick Carr
I, as many others 17 year olds, wish to become a commercial pilot and have a dilemma. Obviously i do not wish to pay the 60k + fees for an integrated course at Oxford Aviation training but that is my plan. I have looked at the Air atlantique sponsorship program and the entry requirements are the usual GCSE's and a PPL with 60-80hrs. Now do i go splash out on a ppl and then apply to air atlantique with a possibility of being turned away and then having to pay 60 k more for the fATPL training at Oxford or do i just go for Oxford? The first option is the more expensive if i fail but 60k cheaper if i make it. Oxfod do not offer much of a discount for people who have already obtained a ppl.
Thanks for your time!!
Nick Carr
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Nick,
There are more schools in the UK than Oxford and AFT with which you can become a commercial pilot.
First, there are integrated schools (a la Cabair, Oxford, Jerez, etc) who will take you with diddly squat experience and spit you out a year or so later with a frozen ATPL.
Second, you could complete your ppl, then study for the ground school, build some hours, then sit the CPL, ME and IR tests. This is known as modular training and works out about 20 grand cheaper. And at the end you get a frozen ATPL.
The end result is identical.
If I was in your shoes, I would do my PPL now and apply to Atlantique. If you are not successful in getting on the fugly scheme, I would then continue my training via the modular route. You then have 20 grand spare to do a type rating, instructors rating or whatever you want.
And finally remember that all these schools want your money and will promise you anything to get their hands on your moulah. Which means promising you will be snapped up by an airline once you complete your training. Not strictly true
There are more schools in the UK than Oxford and AFT with which you can become a commercial pilot.
First, there are integrated schools (a la Cabair, Oxford, Jerez, etc) who will take you with diddly squat experience and spit you out a year or so later with a frozen ATPL.
Second, you could complete your ppl, then study for the ground school, build some hours, then sit the CPL, ME and IR tests. This is known as modular training and works out about 20 grand cheaper. And at the end you get a frozen ATPL.
The end result is identical.
If I was in your shoes, I would do my PPL now and apply to Atlantique. If you are not successful in getting on the fugly scheme, I would then continue my training via the modular route. You then have 20 grand spare to do a type rating, instructors rating or whatever you want.
And finally remember that all these schools want your money and will promise you anything to get their hands on your moulah. Which means promising you will be snapped up by an airline once you complete your training. Not strictly true
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Many thanks for your reply.
The reason i wish to do integrated is because the airlines often prefer the modular training because it produces pilots with hight quality skills and knowlage whereas the modular route can produce pilots that are not trained to the fullest. Also the airlines can look at the progress you have made during an integrated course whereas modular is untraceable.
Oxford offer a decent course and they also have firm relationships with airlines that often help get you that all important first interview!
Thank you again
The reason i wish to do integrated is because the airlines often prefer the modular training because it produces pilots with hight quality skills and knowlage whereas the modular route can produce pilots that are not trained to the fullest. Also the airlines can look at the progress you have made during an integrated course whereas modular is untraceable.
Oxford offer a decent course and they also have firm relationships with airlines that often help get you that all important first interview!
Thank you again
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Air Atlantique Sponsorship
Hi all,
Air Atlantique have recently announced that they are once again recruiting for the next Cadet Sponsorship scheme intake. This is a fully funded sponsorship scheme – no financial input is required from you – although you should expect to be worked extremely hard in return for your training.
To summarise what they require:
In return, Air Atlantique will provide you with:
For more info, or to request an application form, contact Air Atlantique on 02476 882 608. I would strongly recommend acting quickly if you are considering applying, as the selection procedure is starting very soon.
Good luck to all those that apply
Atlantic-44
Air Atlantique have recently announced that they are once again recruiting for the next Cadet Sponsorship scheme intake. This is a fully funded sponsorship scheme – no financial input is required from you – although you should expect to be worked extremely hard in return for your training.
To summarise what they require:
- A current valid JAA PPL
- Aged 18-26 (although if you’re an excellent candidate, those limits might be slightly stretched)
- A CAA Class 1 medical
- A full driving licence is highly preferable
- Prepared to work extremely hard and devote pretty much all of your time to the job
- Fluency in another language would also be a bonus
In return, Air Atlantique will provide you with:
- Excellent training up to and including your CPL/IR
- Local accommodation during your training
- The opportunity to fly a wide variety of aircraft within the fleet, including aircraft such as the Dakota!
- Bonded employment on completion of your IR, providing you with the hours required to gain your full ATPL
- Potential for early command positions
For more info, or to request an application form, contact Air Atlantique on 02476 882 608. I would strongly recommend acting quickly if you are considering applying, as the selection procedure is starting very soon.
Good luck to all those that apply
Atlantic-44
Last edited by Atlantic-44; 13th Apr 2005 at 09:26.
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Nick14,
You have a number of options, which I would recommend you consider.
i) Get a class 1 medical. With out it, you’ll never fly and earn a living, that will cost you about £400 and the examination must be conducted at the CAA - Gatwick.
ii) Get your PPL with a local school. I’m not from your neck of the woods, but I’m sure there are a few that would be glad to help. That will cost about £4-5k.
iii) When you obtain your PPL, try to build hours up to the 60-80 hour mark and then apply to Air Atlantique. If you are unsuccessful there, you could consider other sponsorship with CTC and the like… if that’s what you fancy. If unsuccessful there, self fund the modular route, which will cost about £35k after your PPL. Although it’s a long way off and the MEP license will probably be in effect by then, I would recommend you do not pay for a type rating….
With regard to the fugly scheme, I understand it’s hard work but with fantastic rewards if you can stick at it. But the kind of flying AA generally do is a world apart from flying with the likes of Easyjet, BMI et al. Conduct a search here using the search function, have a look at their website and it will give you idea of the diverse a/c types they operate and where they tend to operate them.
AA offer the only 100% sponsorship available. Fact! You can only apply and see what happens – or even better, go along and have a chat with them – they won’t bite!
Best of luck.
You have a number of options, which I would recommend you consider.
i) Get a class 1 medical. With out it, you’ll never fly and earn a living, that will cost you about £400 and the examination must be conducted at the CAA - Gatwick.
ii) Get your PPL with a local school. I’m not from your neck of the woods, but I’m sure there are a few that would be glad to help. That will cost about £4-5k.
iii) When you obtain your PPL, try to build hours up to the 60-80 hour mark and then apply to Air Atlantique. If you are unsuccessful there, you could consider other sponsorship with CTC and the like… if that’s what you fancy. If unsuccessful there, self fund the modular route, which will cost about £35k after your PPL. Although it’s a long way off and the MEP license will probably be in effect by then, I would recommend you do not pay for a type rating….
With regard to the fugly scheme, I understand it’s hard work but with fantastic rewards if you can stick at it. But the kind of flying AA generally do is a world apart from flying with the likes of Easyjet, BMI et al. Conduct a search here using the search function, have a look at their website and it will give you idea of the diverse a/c types they operate and where they tend to operate them.
AA offer the only 100% sponsorship available. Fact! You can only apply and see what happens – or even better, go along and have a chat with them – they won’t bite!
Best of luck.
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Nick 14
Without getting into the modular vs intergrated arguement........here goes.
First and foremost get that class1
Then I would also suggest gaining a PPL...this serves a couple of things, it will introduce you to aviation in an enjoyable environment (flying club etc) it will also enable you to meet plenty of other aviators, some of who will be proffessional pilots..i.e instructors...airline pilots etc.
Once you've got that far you will be much better able to decide how and where you wish to progress to complete your proffessional license requirements. As an example I completed the modular route rather than intergrated...and I was able to gain employment on T/Prop and now Jet aircraft.
However ultimately Nick...the choice will be yours...the one last word of caution I offer is this....take EVERYTHING you are told by flying schools with a big pinch of salt..many will be selling you pipe dreams if you think your going to graduate and jump straight into a nice shiney jet with 250hrs (yes it does happen..but only in about 1 in a 100 cases!)
Hope this helps!..and best of luck persuing your dreams
H
Without getting into the modular vs intergrated arguement........here goes.
First and foremost get that class1
Then I would also suggest gaining a PPL...this serves a couple of things, it will introduce you to aviation in an enjoyable environment (flying club etc) it will also enable you to meet plenty of other aviators, some of who will be proffessional pilots..i.e instructors...airline pilots etc.
Once you've got that far you will be much better able to decide how and where you wish to progress to complete your proffessional license requirements. As an example I completed the modular route rather than intergrated...and I was able to gain employment on T/Prop and now Jet aircraft.
However ultimately Nick...the choice will be yours...the one last word of caution I offer is this....take EVERYTHING you are told by flying schools with a big pinch of salt..many will be selling you pipe dreams if you think your going to graduate and jump straight into a nice shiney jet with 250hrs (yes it does happen..but only in about 1 in a 100 cases!)
Hope this helps!..and best of luck persuing your dreams
H
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Nick,
I agree with funkie, get the class one and then do your PPL and apply to any sponsorship schemes you can-don't forget the GAPAN JN Somers award, in fact you may have time to get your application in for a PPL schol this year with them.
I think your comments about modular trained pilots may incite a few people. Regardless of what the likes of Oxford say to you, at the end of the day you will get the same licence whichever route you follow. In fact, you will probably learn so much more by organising your own training than you will by being spoon fed through an integrated course. There are many modular schools out there which offer the same package as integrated for a fraction of the cost and if you plan your training properly there is no reason not to have a report tracing your entire training progress.
I know a number of Oxford app guys and what amazes me is that some of these people have stumped up huge amounts of money to become pilots having never flown or been in a light aircraft. To me, this speaks volumes about their dedication and knowledge and I believe they are far less likely to read up on all subjects aviation.
There CAN also be a certain amount of ignorance from some of these integrated guys-they do not tend to look outside the box as the training is all there in front of them, they do not get the experience and independence that others do, like those who have to hour build and take complete responsibility of their flight.
The feeling I get from your post is that you are slightly spouting what Oxford have told you-I think you should go out there, visit lots of modular and integrated schools and see what they have to say. Don't get tunnel visioned, people are appearing to get jobs but remember that no school can promise you one in the end.
Good luck!
I agree with funkie, get the class one and then do your PPL and apply to any sponsorship schemes you can-don't forget the GAPAN JN Somers award, in fact you may have time to get your application in for a PPL schol this year with them.
I think your comments about modular trained pilots may incite a few people. Regardless of what the likes of Oxford say to you, at the end of the day you will get the same licence whichever route you follow. In fact, you will probably learn so much more by organising your own training than you will by being spoon fed through an integrated course. There are many modular schools out there which offer the same package as integrated for a fraction of the cost and if you plan your training properly there is no reason not to have a report tracing your entire training progress.
I know a number of Oxford app guys and what amazes me is that some of these people have stumped up huge amounts of money to become pilots having never flown or been in a light aircraft. To me, this speaks volumes about their dedication and knowledge and I believe they are far less likely to read up on all subjects aviation.
There CAN also be a certain amount of ignorance from some of these integrated guys-they do not tend to look outside the box as the training is all there in front of them, they do not get the experience and independence that others do, like those who have to hour build and take complete responsibility of their flight.
The feeling I get from your post is that you are slightly spouting what Oxford have told you-I think you should go out there, visit lots of modular and integrated schools and see what they have to say. Don't get tunnel visioned, people are appearing to get jobs but remember that no school can promise you one in the end.
Good luck!
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I have spoken to many people and a lot of them say that integrated is the way forward. I am led to believe that some airlines such as BA do not accept applicants that have not done an integrated course!
Thanks so much!!
Thanks so much!!
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Nick..I happen to know 2 BA recruits who are ex FI's....and were modular students...Id suggest you need to talk to many more people to get a better indication of current recruitment trends.
Last edited by haughtney1; 12th Apr 2005 at 19:49.
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Nearly every forum discussion i've read that has a "modular v integrated" tinge to it makes reference to "BA prefering integrated students." The likelyhood of getting into BA (or similar) as a low hours (int or mod) pilot is not brilliant. Don't put all your eggs in one basket just because FTO's tell you that airlines prefer integrated and you will only ever work for BA if you have obtained your atpl through the integrated manner. I'm sure it is not just coincidence (not wishing to sound cynical) that it is more profitable for FTO's to have an integrated student rather than a modular one.
Nick-Do your research and make your own decisions. Speak to as many independent people as possible and NOT just training organisations. Get down to your local flying club and chat to people there and explain your dilema. I also got a job in an airport as a check in boy (or "passenger services agent" as I was poshly re-named) and used to talk to as many pilots of the flights I checked in as I could. It was a good way to get loads of useful info and learn about the industry and earn (a little bit) of $.
Nick-Do your research and make your own decisions. Speak to as many independent people as possible and NOT just training organisations. Get down to your local flying club and chat to people there and explain your dilema. I also got a job in an airport as a check in boy (or "passenger services agent" as I was poshly re-named) and used to talk to as many pilots of the flights I checked in as I could. It was a good way to get loads of useful info and learn about the industry and earn (a little bit) of $.
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As a general rule, spend some time applying for everything you can at your level; if after a while you get nothing, pay for the training yourself.
At your stage your need to be getting a class one medical and applying for the Air League and GAPAN PPL scholarships (that one closes 15th April, so be quick). If you don't get one, consider paying for a PPL before you do anything else, just so you know what you are letting yourself in for. It will also help demonstrate your commitment when applying for other sponsorships such as CTC. If you get no joy on the sponsorship front then start talking to your bank manager and looking at FTOs.
I don't want to get into the whole modular vs. integrated debate as this has been done to death on this forum, but you do need to be more tactfull when mentioning this issue in the future. There is no "one size fits all" way to get a good flying job, otherwise we'd all have one and this forum wouldn't exist!
We all take our own route to the pilot's seat and what's right for you may not be right for someone else, but that doesn't make them or their flying skills less worthy of your respect. Please remember that, as the instructors teaching you on your £60k integrated course may well be modular graduates who are "not trained to the fullest" as you put it!
Anyway, best of luck whatever you decide to do
Al
At your stage your need to be getting a class one medical and applying for the Air League and GAPAN PPL scholarships (that one closes 15th April, so be quick). If you don't get one, consider paying for a PPL before you do anything else, just so you know what you are letting yourself in for. It will also help demonstrate your commitment when applying for other sponsorships such as CTC. If you get no joy on the sponsorship front then start talking to your bank manager and looking at FTOs.
I don't want to get into the whole modular vs. integrated debate as this has been done to death on this forum, but you do need to be more tactfull when mentioning this issue in the future. There is no "one size fits all" way to get a good flying job, otherwise we'd all have one and this forum wouldn't exist!
We all take our own route to the pilot's seat and what's right for you may not be right for someone else, but that doesn't make them or their flying skills less worthy of your respect. Please remember that, as the instructors teaching you on your £60k integrated course may well be modular graduates who are "not trained to the fullest" as you put it!
Anyway, best of luck whatever you decide to do
Al
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*bump*
Only because I think this an opportunity not to be missed.
If you want to know a little more about the company, visit the Air Atlantique website. More info on the Classic Fleet can be found here.
Good luck to all those applying
Atlantic-44
Only because I think this an opportunity not to be missed.
If you want to know a little more about the company, visit the Air Atlantique website. More info on the Classic Fleet can be found here.
Good luck to all those applying
Atlantic-44
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I am sorry if i was rude about the modular route, but that is the impression i got from people i talked to about it
Thank you for all your help it has provided me with a lot to think about!!
Thanks guys
Nick
Thank you for all your help it has provided me with a lot to think about!!
Thanks guys
Nick
