The Ryanair pledge
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It puzzles me how we spend lots of time, effort and money to train and get our blue book and after all that blood, sweat and tears it still baffles me how people can aspire to join such a cheap and tacky outfit such as Ryanair when it is clear that new starters are taken advantage of! The job market is very good at the moment so look around and join a proper airline where they will pay you a reasonable wage to fly and not the other way round!
I along with a few mates have always said if Ryanair was the only airline that exists, then we would go back to our old instructing jobs. At least as an instructor I was respected and well treated when compared to Ryanair F/Os!
I along with a few mates have always said if Ryanair was the only airline that exists, then we would go back to our old instructing jobs. At least as an instructor I was respected and well treated when compared to Ryanair F/Os!
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All I can say on this is............Get a good job in IT or something like that, get your PPL and hire a PA-28 at weekends!!! more fun, see alot more and ENJOY FLYING IT!! not being made a slave jumping puddels in 737's!
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guys, if you are looking for a job, I have one for you.My chief pilot is looking for slaves.
you will fly from 3 am to 11pm. we do not pay you. I have convinced my boss YOU pay for your hours, so here my rate: 1 hour of airbus or B737 will cost you 355$+VAT .WE do not pay accomodation, hotel, transport, uniform. We have decided to triple the cost of everything just to make you happy.
We have a BIG problem here: there is a shortage of pilot.
so please, apply asap, and dont forget your booklet of check for the 1000$ interview. (paid in advance)....
WELCOME IN THE REAL WORLD!!!!
(OK, it is a bad joke, But I guess I am not very far from the reality)
you will fly from 3 am to 11pm. we do not pay you. I have convinced my boss YOU pay for your hours, so here my rate: 1 hour of airbus or B737 will cost you 355$+VAT .WE do not pay accomodation, hotel, transport, uniform. We have decided to triple the cost of everything just to make you happy.
We have a BIG problem here: there is a shortage of pilot.
so please, apply asap, and dont forget your booklet of check for the 1000$ interview. (paid in advance)....
WELCOME IN THE REAL WORLD!!!!
(OK, it is a bad joke, But I guess I am not very far from the reality)
. You have been truly missed. Looking forward to your contributions 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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MISTER GEEZER : "THE JOB MARKET IS VERY GOOD AT THE MOMENT"
WHERE EXACTLY IS THAT, BECAUSE I HAVE SENT OVER 300 CV'S AND GET SUCH REPLIES AS
1. WE HAVE HAD 3000 APLLICATIONS
2. I GET OVER 100CV'S A WEEK
3. I CAN GET PEOPLE TO FLY FOR FREE
4. YOU GET £2A ROLL OF FILM (AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHY)
PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT PLANET YOU LIVE ON MISTER GEEZER AND THE ENTERPRISE AND ME WILL BE THERE AT MAXIMUM WARP! (NO OFFENCE)
On a brighter note:
Remember everyone that the payout for unfair dismissal rose from £12,000 to £50,000 a couple of years back (UK law)
And also remember that you have full employee rights, even while on the initial probationary period.
OK, not much help but bear it in mind when an airline starts treating you like a piece of anal discharge.
Actually, while i am on a medical theme. There is a common perception that there is not a cure for the common cold. This is incorrect. There are actually ver 200 strains of cold that you can catch and you probably will not get the same one twice.
WHERE EXACTLY IS THAT, BECAUSE I HAVE SENT OVER 300 CV'S AND GET SUCH REPLIES AS
1. WE HAVE HAD 3000 APLLICATIONS
2. I GET OVER 100CV'S A WEEK
3. I CAN GET PEOPLE TO FLY FOR FREE
4. YOU GET £2A ROLL OF FILM (AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHY)
PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT PLANET YOU LIVE ON MISTER GEEZER AND THE ENTERPRISE AND ME WILL BE THERE AT MAXIMUM WARP! (NO OFFENCE)
On a brighter note:
Remember everyone that the payout for unfair dismissal rose from £12,000 to £50,000 a couple of years back (UK law)
And also remember that you have full employee rights, even while on the initial probationary period.
OK, not much help but bear it in mind when an airline starts treating you like a piece of anal discharge.
Actually, while i am on a medical theme. There is a common perception that there is not a cure for the common cold. This is incorrect. There are actually ver 200 strains of cold that you can catch and you probably will not get the same one twice.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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jamestkirk,
the market is improving, look at all those guys who have left flybe for greener pastures such as Monarch and easyjet.
Thomas Cook are recruiting, as are Britannia, even British Airways.
Maybe your CV needs a little work..
the market is improving, look at all those guys who have left flybe for greener pastures such as Monarch and easyjet.
Thomas Cook are recruiting, as are Britannia, even British Airways.
Maybe your CV needs a little work..
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Well where do I start.
During the past couple of months I know of 7 people who have got jobs and 4 out of those 7 have got their first commercial job. I also know of 2 others who are in the selection process for their first job. Out of the 4 who got their first break, one was offered 2 jobs at the same time and another chap was invited to 3 interviews - he could afford to turn down one of the airlines. That would of been unheard of early last year! One of those with airline experience had 3 interviews on the go and was in the nice position to pick the best of the three offers! Oh... and I am in the middle of the selection process for a jet job - I currently fly props.
Now if that is not an example of a good employment market - then I would love to see it when it is really good! Remember that if someone leaves then someone has to be taken on to fill that gap!
Edited to say that not one of them has had to pay for their type rating!
During the past couple of months I know of 7 people who have got jobs and 4 out of those 7 have got their first commercial job. I also know of 2 others who are in the selection process for their first job. Out of the 4 who got their first break, one was offered 2 jobs at the same time and another chap was invited to 3 interviews - he could afford to turn down one of the airlines. That would of been unheard of early last year! One of those with airline experience had 3 interviews on the go and was in the nice position to pick the best of the three offers! Oh... and I am in the middle of the selection process for a jet job - I currently fly props.
Now if that is not an example of a good employment market - then I would love to see it when it is really good! Remember that if someone leaves then someone has to be taken on to fill that gap!
Edited to say that not one of them has had to pay for their type rating!
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Job
PLEASE BEAR IN MIND I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A SLANGING MATCH.
I am pleased that people are getting jobs and the industry 'seems' to be picking up.
I trained with 30 people in all and one has landed a job (but still in the holding pool).
To be fair, I should have said that i am a new starter and looking for the first job. So if you are experienced, we may be talking at cross purposes.
If you did a straw pole of newly qaulified pilots who have been on pprune for the past year, you may find a different story to your own.
I am not being negative. I am on the cusp of sending another million or two CV's to anyone with an aircraft, hovercraft etc.
HIGHFLYER - you cheeky sod:
I am on the third re-write of my CV after getting loads of advice from everyone. (ok, not everyone). It's one page and very theatrical (et tu Brutea) about my flying history. And, it's extremely professionally laid out.
Thanks though for the positive thread about people recruiting and rest assured my 5' by 3' laminated CV will be arriving to all major airlines by silverback geurilla that Vlad-the-Inhaler is kindly organising for us.
I am pleased that people are getting jobs and the industry 'seems' to be picking up.
I trained with 30 people in all and one has landed a job (but still in the holding pool).
To be fair, I should have said that i am a new starter and looking for the first job. So if you are experienced, we may be talking at cross purposes.
If you did a straw pole of newly qaulified pilots who have been on pprune for the past year, you may find a different story to your own.
I am not being negative. I am on the cusp of sending another million or two CV's to anyone with an aircraft, hovercraft etc.
HIGHFLYER - you cheeky sod:
I am on the third re-write of my CV after getting loads of advice from everyone. (ok, not everyone). It's one page and very theatrical (et tu Brutea) about my flying history. And, it's extremely professionally laid out.
Thanks though for the positive thread about people recruiting and rest assured my 5' by 3' laminated CV will be arriving to all major airlines by silverback geurilla that Vlad-the-Inhaler is kindly organising for us.
Thread Starter
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Im with James T on the job market, yet to see anyone I actually know get taken on and its not as though they havent been trying! Its still a tough job market however rose tinted your bifocals are!
However, congratulations to your associates (and I mean it) as the fewer fATPLs there are, the better the chances for the rest of us
However, congratulations to your associates (and I mean it) as the fewer fATPLs there are, the better the chances for the rest of us
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Out of those that I know who have got jobs, half of them have got their first break so things are starting to balance out.
The employment market in the UK has always been different depending on where you live. Even if you think that my previous post was a bit optimistic, it is certainly a sign of things to come!
For those hunting for their first job then I would say concentrate on the prop operators since it is these guys that are going to be very short in the months ahead. Jet operators are sucking up a large number of prop drivers at the moment so gaps will be left wide open!
The employment market in the UK has always been different depending on where you live. Even if you think that my previous post was a bit optimistic, it is certainly a sign of things to come!
For those hunting for their first job then I would say concentrate on the prop operators since it is these guys that are going to be very short in the months ahead. Jet operators are sucking up a large number of prop drivers at the moment so gaps will be left wide open!
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It is actually happening, and it's not just confined to PPRuNe readers.
Example - our little airline has quite a few people that would make excellent investments for any jet operator - hard working, nice blokes that have a few thousand hours turboprop, have weathered the crap job market of '02 and '03 and I know half a dozen of our captains at least are thinking about moving on.
I know for a fact that Easyjet have benefited from a few of our pilots' cv's recently, along with the usual respectable big jet operators, but it's funny that to a man when Ryanair is mentioned in the crew room there is a collective snort of disgust, along with a muttered chorus of 'pay-£50-to-submit-a-cv', 'you-must-be-joking', 'I'd-rather-work-in-Tesco' etc etc.
Myself, I know that I only drive a little steam driven, analog-instruments turboprop, and yes of course I'd love to move onto big shiny things, but hand on heart if my phone rang now and it was Ryanair on the other end offering me the chance to buy a type rating and work for them, I'd laugh in their ear and hang up.
I'm sure that Ryanair recruiting will really start to suffer as the market continues to recover. Sure there will be a never ending stream of star struck muppets with big cheque books and 200 hours who will continue to queue up and bend over, and nothing that we old hands can say could convince them to do otherwise. But if it's experienced people who have actually got a clue that they're after, I reckon that stream must have all but dried up by now.
I hate to say it but : when the inevitable 737 crash happens, and fatigued, inexperienced crews are identified as a major contributory factor, and Ryanair get the mother of all workovers from the CAA auditors and investigators, I think a few things might be forced to change over there. I'm afraid that's the only message that MOL will hear
Example - our little airline has quite a few people that would make excellent investments for any jet operator - hard working, nice blokes that have a few thousand hours turboprop, have weathered the crap job market of '02 and '03 and I know half a dozen of our captains at least are thinking about moving on.
I know for a fact that Easyjet have benefited from a few of our pilots' cv's recently, along with the usual respectable big jet operators, but it's funny that to a man when Ryanair is mentioned in the crew room there is a collective snort of disgust, along with a muttered chorus of 'pay-£50-to-submit-a-cv', 'you-must-be-joking', 'I'd-rather-work-in-Tesco' etc etc.
Myself, I know that I only drive a little steam driven, analog-instruments turboprop, and yes of course I'd love to move onto big shiny things, but hand on heart if my phone rang now and it was Ryanair on the other end offering me the chance to buy a type rating and work for them, I'd laugh in their ear and hang up.
I'm sure that Ryanair recruiting will really start to suffer as the market continues to recover. Sure there will be a never ending stream of star struck muppets with big cheque books and 200 hours who will continue to queue up and bend over, and nothing that we old hands can say could convince them to do otherwise. But if it's experienced people who have actually got a clue that they're after, I reckon that stream must have all but dried up by now.
I hate to say it but : when the inevitable 737 crash happens, and fatigued, inexperienced crews are identified as a major contributory factor, and Ryanair get the mother of all workovers from the CAA auditors and investigators, I think a few things might be forced to change over there. I'm afraid that's the only message that MOL will hear
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Well said LukeSkytoddler.
I fully agree, there will come a point when it all comes crashing down (no pun intended). You simply cannot treat people as badly as MOL does and expect to get away with it.
If Ryanair offered me a job now, I honestly would not accept it.
I know two pilots who work for Ryanair and both have warned me to stay well away from it, which I firmly intend to do.
I fully agree, there will come a point when it all comes crashing down (no pun intended). You simply cannot treat people as badly as MOL does and expect to get away with it.
If Ryanair offered me a job now, I honestly would not accept it.
I know two pilots who work for Ryanair and both have warned me to stay well away from it, which I firmly intend to do.
Supercharged PPRuNer
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Excellent post Luke.
I saw the writing on the wall when Ryanair started charging £50 to read your CV. I can’t think of a more blatant p!ss-take, and if everyone at the time had refused to pay up, the idea would have lasted five minutes. But no, the combined ranks of the naive and desperate handed over their cash, and off down the slippery slope we all went.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if MoL’s terms and conditions were the future, I wouldn’t even try to get into this industry. No amount of ‘prospects’ or 737NG time would make me bend over for that man.
However, I don’t believe his Victorian mill-owner conditions will prevail – it’s simply that the job market in recent years has allowed him to get away with it. Ultimately though it’s self-destructive, and I’m sure eventually it will come back and bite him.
I saw the writing on the wall when Ryanair started charging £50 to read your CV. I can’t think of a more blatant p!ss-take, and if everyone at the time had refused to pay up, the idea would have lasted five minutes. But no, the combined ranks of the naive and desperate handed over their cash, and off down the slippery slope we all went.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if MoL’s terms and conditions were the future, I wouldn’t even try to get into this industry. No amount of ‘prospects’ or 737NG time would make me bend over for that man.
However, I don’t believe his Victorian mill-owner conditions will prevail – it’s simply that the job market in recent years has allowed him to get away with it. Ultimately though it’s self-destructive, and I’m sure eventually it will come back and bite him.
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Following on from this, it is not just one airline but many jumping on the same bandwagon. There is no need to be pouring 200 hour "experienced" pilots into the right hand seat of a jet airliner. Although this has happened to some degree for quite some time, it seems now to be de rigueur for all airlines to adopt this as a widespread recruiting practice.
Traditionally and sensibly, the bulk of First Officers in such an operating environment were recruited from the military and smaller turboprop operators etc. Given the state of the market at any one time, these requirements were either tightened or relaxed depending on supply. Some larger companies offered a limited number of courses to selected candidates with very low experience on the acceptance that there would be a longer learning curve and more intensive training requirements. Such was the status quo.
Then in recent years it seems that one or two companies wondered how to save costs with their newly ordered large fleet of jets. One way was to do away with one of the pilots altogether. Too complicated, and anyway the regulator, manufacturers and insurance companies wouldn't stand for it. Next best suggestion find the bodies who will work for poor wages, pay for their own training, uniforms, even to have their CV's read. Great idea if only it would work, but the military pilots and turbo-prop pilots are not going to jump at this with outstretched arms. No problem, look lower down the food chain at the newly qualified pilots with no real experience. They will jump at the opportunity, and sure enough they were right !
So doesn't this lack of experience merely increase the workload on the captains ? Answer Yes but so what. The calculated odds of an accident or incident that can be largely attributed to this factor is acceptable, so lets take the risk. Another upside is they can then introduce a whole new wage and terms structure that will start with these newbies and gradually work its way through the entire company ! As for the military and turboprop pilots, no problem. They are now in competition with the 200 hour-ers. If they want a job they join on the same deal, like it or lump it ! As for the existing Captains, well gradually over the coming years they will leave, retire and die just as it has always been, and they can then be replaced with our brave new world pilots who of course are much cheaper. Win Win win !!!
But what if there is an accident one day, and the lack of experience on the flight deck becomes a high profile factor ? Well that might be a problem, but the PR guys can deal with that as and when it happens. The problem might come from the regulator ( ha ha !) but more likely from the Insurance companies who have to shoulder this risk. It is a bit of a wonder the LLoyds aviation market hasn't already rumbled this, but they are not the sharpest pencils being far too busy trying to short change the victims of their policies, so in the meantime ... In any event if you look at some previous accidents the insurance payout can actually generate a net profit ! There is nothing like the "free market" when you are in the game early enough to have the ability to distort and manipulate it.
Does any of this strike a chord ?
Traditionally and sensibly, the bulk of First Officers in such an operating environment were recruited from the military and smaller turboprop operators etc. Given the state of the market at any one time, these requirements were either tightened or relaxed depending on supply. Some larger companies offered a limited number of courses to selected candidates with very low experience on the acceptance that there would be a longer learning curve and more intensive training requirements. Such was the status quo.
Then in recent years it seems that one or two companies wondered how to save costs with their newly ordered large fleet of jets. One way was to do away with one of the pilots altogether. Too complicated, and anyway the regulator, manufacturers and insurance companies wouldn't stand for it. Next best suggestion find the bodies who will work for poor wages, pay for their own training, uniforms, even to have their CV's read. Great idea if only it would work, but the military pilots and turbo-prop pilots are not going to jump at this with outstretched arms. No problem, look lower down the food chain at the newly qualified pilots with no real experience. They will jump at the opportunity, and sure enough they were right !
So doesn't this lack of experience merely increase the workload on the captains ? Answer Yes but so what. The calculated odds of an accident or incident that can be largely attributed to this factor is acceptable, so lets take the risk. Another upside is they can then introduce a whole new wage and terms structure that will start with these newbies and gradually work its way through the entire company ! As for the military and turboprop pilots, no problem. They are now in competition with the 200 hour-ers. If they want a job they join on the same deal, like it or lump it ! As for the existing Captains, well gradually over the coming years they will leave, retire and die just as it has always been, and they can then be replaced with our brave new world pilots who of course are much cheaper. Win Win win !!!
But what if there is an accident one day, and the lack of experience on the flight deck becomes a high profile factor ? Well that might be a problem, but the PR guys can deal with that as and when it happens. The problem might come from the regulator ( ha ha !) but more likely from the Insurance companies who have to shoulder this risk. It is a bit of a wonder the LLoyds aviation market hasn't already rumbled this, but they are not the sharpest pencils being far too busy trying to short change the victims of their policies, so in the meantime ... In any event if you look at some previous accidents the insurance payout can actually generate a net profit ! There is nothing like the "free market" when you are in the game early enough to have the ability to distort and manipulate it.
Does any of this strike a chord ?
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Bealzebub
Yes, unfortunately. And your view of the industry is so bleak and cynical that there must be some truth in it.
Yes, unfortunately. And your view of the industry is so bleak and cynical that there must be some truth in it.
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Bealzebub
Saw a documentary once and there is an insurance risk involved in all flight safety.i.e. If a safety issue comes up and the cost to the airline to implement it is higher than the increased insurance premium by not having it, the airline will go with the cheapest option ie the increased insurance premium.
If FR can satisfy the authorities they are flying within the rules then they will carry on, if an accident happens the insurance will pick up the tab.
I'm not a supporter of FR or MOL in anyway but kinda got thinking when their quarterly results were announced a few days ago of approx £26m, I wonder how much this would have been if they had funded all the type raitings they required.
Just thoughts, not trying to be controversial!!!
Saw a documentary once and there is an insurance risk involved in all flight safety.i.e. If a safety issue comes up and the cost to the airline to implement it is higher than the increased insurance premium by not having it, the airline will go with the cheapest option ie the increased insurance premium.
If FR can satisfy the authorities they are flying within the rules then they will carry on, if an accident happens the insurance will pick up the tab.
I'm not a supporter of FR or MOL in anyway but kinda got thinking when their quarterly results were announced a few days ago of approx £26m, I wonder how much this would have been if they had funded all the type raitings they required.
Just thoughts, not trying to be controversial!!!
