Paying for type-rating.
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Df1,
As an employer I like to see what hours you have on type and that will include a type rating.
The more you dress your CV to disguise such a fact only serves to annoy the person reading it.
As an employer I like to see what hours you have on type and that will include a type rating.
The more you dress your CV to disguise such a fact only serves to annoy the person reading it.
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Phileas,
I was not intimating at creative C.V work nor disguising ones qualifications or lack of them. What I was thinking was that some may have forgotten the basics of job application and selection process. In essence I am saying that if a type rating is an absolute prerequisite then that's it! I've also said that I think a type rating is becoming an increasingly common "self-fund" exercise, albeit with pitfalls. But, maybe there are some who would benefit from a better understanding of selection processes. You're right, this has little or nothing to do with type-ratings but everything to do with getting invited to a selection in the first place. No dressing of C.V's no disguising of experience just a good, confident knowledge of what to prepare for and what to expect. Then maybe one won't need to buy a type rating at all!
cheers
I was not intimating at creative C.V work nor disguising ones qualifications or lack of them. What I was thinking was that some may have forgotten the basics of job application and selection process. In essence I am saying that if a type rating is an absolute prerequisite then that's it! I've also said that I think a type rating is becoming an increasingly common "self-fund" exercise, albeit with pitfalls. But, maybe there are some who would benefit from a better understanding of selection processes. You're right, this has little or nothing to do with type-ratings but everything to do with getting invited to a selection in the first place. No dressing of C.V's no disguising of experience just a good, confident knowledge of what to prepare for and what to expect. Then maybe one won't need to buy a type rating at all!
cheers
Last edited by df1; 18th Nov 2004 at 15:06.
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Can't help agreeing with yyzdub, however, I also appreciate other peoples principles.
It would be interesting to hear of other people who have been successful in securing a job after a self funded type rating. I know of one person myself who has managed it, are there anymore out there who would like to share their experiences?
It would be interesting to hear of other people who have been successful in securing a job after a self funded type rating. I know of one person myself who has managed it, are there anymore out there who would like to share their experiences?
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Speaking as someone who had to fork out 23,000 for a type rating having already flown some 1000 hours biz jet before, I can only advise the following.
If you don't do it, some-one else will. It's nice to know we can rely on our compatriots out there eh?? There are plenty of Kiwis and Ozzies out there who are willing to come to the UK due to lack of flying opportunities at home. With the expansion of the EU, we also face the prospect of former eastern block country pilots willing to work for less than the home grown talent.
I personally think that it's disgusting that you pay for the ATPL, gambling everything without any guarantee of a job to find that you have to find another phenomenal amount of cash or face life in limbo. I'm particularly annoyed having already had a Jet Type rating, however I had to look to the future and this was the only way for me.
Was it worth it? well i now getting spoken to like s**t by jumped up wotnot's in crewing (even if they are ringing up for a favour, I'm ameniable to them as i understand they have a difficult job and sometimes have to deal with self important flight deck) get called the driver by passengers, have no social life, and due to the fun police - now face been locked in a small, loud unclean cockpit for 10 hours a day. Yes it was.
For all that, financially it will never be worth it (having given up a reasonably well paid job and will never recoup what I have paid out or lost in terms of salary) I get to fly jets for a living. and to me that's what it's all about.
I'd just advise that you get an offer in place with an airline before embarking on a type rating. Because for all the hard graft of getting that jet on your licence, there are still people in HR who think that just because you can't build a lego tower, you can't get on with people or fly jets. What B*****ks
live the dream
If you don't do it, some-one else will. It's nice to know we can rely on our compatriots out there eh?? There are plenty of Kiwis and Ozzies out there who are willing to come to the UK due to lack of flying opportunities at home. With the expansion of the EU, we also face the prospect of former eastern block country pilots willing to work for less than the home grown talent.
I personally think that it's disgusting that you pay for the ATPL, gambling everything without any guarantee of a job to find that you have to find another phenomenal amount of cash or face life in limbo. I'm particularly annoyed having already had a Jet Type rating, however I had to look to the future and this was the only way for me.
Was it worth it? well i now getting spoken to like s**t by jumped up wotnot's in crewing (even if they are ringing up for a favour, I'm ameniable to them as i understand they have a difficult job and sometimes have to deal with self important flight deck) get called the driver by passengers, have no social life, and due to the fun police - now face been locked in a small, loud unclean cockpit for 10 hours a day. Yes it was.
For all that, financially it will never be worth it (having given up a reasonably well paid job and will never recoup what I have paid out or lost in terms of salary) I get to fly jets for a living. and to me that's what it's all about.
I'd just advise that you get an offer in place with an airline before embarking on a type rating. Because for all the hard graft of getting that jet on your licence, there are still people in HR who think that just because you can't build a lego tower, you can't get on with people or fly jets. What B*****ks
live the dream
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Hello,
My opinion, and mine only: I will not pay for a type rating, if im not sucessfull in getting a job without a Type Rating, then i will pay for one.
Regards
My opinion, and mine only: I will not pay for a type rating, if im not sucessfull in getting a job without a Type Rating, then i will pay for one.
Regards
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my god this is a touchy subject. I am emotionally drained after reading the points made. the tears are just drying
Someone said that there should be a pilot shortage in two years or so. Like to know where that information has come from, as i have been hearing it for the last 2 years.
If that shortage does happen, then the type rating issue may change, due to the supply and demand moving in our favour. It's just sh@t at the moment.
I am an early 30's F/ATPL who gave up that good job and house etc to train.
On a generic note of career opportunities. It is wrong to expect an employee in any field to spend large sums of money for the pleasure of working for a company. Yes, I know that some of you may say the airline world is different, but that is my point; it should'nt be.
There is not a huge amount we can do but wait for the indusrty to change (hopefully short term). Then, those of us who have a little inititiative, maximise that change with employers at the recruitment stage. It will then be US who can have a degree of control.
Sounds a little 'rose coloured specs' i know, but who knows.
I am doing a job that sucks the life from me at the moment. Purely to pay the bills until a flying job comes up. Some of you I know are in the same boat.
If through all this plethora of dispair, we all stay sane, then good for us. I tell people what ist's like to be looking for a job, the amount of CV's sent etc. and they cannot believe or understand it.
Just goes to show we pilots are top drawer kind of characters.
One day, we will be wearing uniform. Speaking to pax in that confident, polite but slightly pretentious way. May get some heavy petting on the side from your chosen girl/bloke or a combination of the two.
And above all, flying.
Like you, I just hate hanging around for that day.
JTK
Someone said that there should be a pilot shortage in two years or so. Like to know where that information has come from, as i have been hearing it for the last 2 years.
If that shortage does happen, then the type rating issue may change, due to the supply and demand moving in our favour. It's just sh@t at the moment.
I am an early 30's F/ATPL who gave up that good job and house etc to train.
On a generic note of career opportunities. It is wrong to expect an employee in any field to spend large sums of money for the pleasure of working for a company. Yes, I know that some of you may say the airline world is different, but that is my point; it should'nt be.
There is not a huge amount we can do but wait for the indusrty to change (hopefully short term). Then, those of us who have a little inititiative, maximise that change with employers at the recruitment stage. It will then be US who can have a degree of control.
Sounds a little 'rose coloured specs' i know, but who knows.
I am doing a job that sucks the life from me at the moment. Purely to pay the bills until a flying job comes up. Some of you I know are in the same boat.
If through all this plethora of dispair, we all stay sane, then good for us. I tell people what ist's like to be looking for a job, the amount of CV's sent etc. and they cannot believe or understand it.
Just goes to show we pilots are top drawer kind of characters.
One day, we will be wearing uniform. Speaking to pax in that confident, polite but slightly pretentious way. May get some heavy petting on the side from your chosen girl/bloke or a combination of the two.
And above all, flying.
Like you, I just hate hanging around for that day.
JTK
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hello,
this pilot shortage story exist for years (probably from after 1985).
I would prefer to have a boring job than no job at all!
Please, please, please.if you are considering to be a pilot. do something else!
this pilot shortage story exist for years (probably from after 1985).
I would prefer to have a boring job than no job at all!
Please, please, please.if you are considering to be a pilot. do something else!
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Just a thought, one airline said to some pilots buy a type rating with us you should get a job. Then when they had finished they were not given jobs as the airline had found pilots to pay for type rating and 100 hours. Did these get jobs? no as the airline has now found new pilots who will pay for 500 hours on type.
What a great profession we happily stab each other in the back because " we need to start paying our loan" or other excuses. It would be refreshing if we all said no to paying and let ourselves get selected on merit.
Most of you don't remember the situation in the states where airlines made you pay for every hour you flew as a FO. I have a job and it took time, effort and flying in three continents but I think you wannabes are taken advantage of by the airlines. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that if you all stopped paying none of you would have to pay.
What a great profession we happily stab each other in the back because " we need to start paying our loan" or other excuses. It would be refreshing if we all said no to paying and let ourselves get selected on merit.
Most of you don't remember the situation in the states where airlines made you pay for every hour you flew as a FO. I have a job and it took time, effort and flying in three continents but I think you wannabes are taken advantage of by the airlines. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that if you all stopped paying none of you would have to pay.
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african drunk,
I agree with you. I have been even baned from this forum.Probably for excessive truth I have said in the past.
Young people are blind, and airlines know some of these teenager 'parents are ready to fork a fortune to see their kid in a jet plane. Study the 14 ATPL is not really hard , it takes 6-7 months of "hard" studing.So yes, any loser can become a pilot and it is why we have to many pilots on this market, and schools, companies make fun of these guys and make them pay all they can.
if you were manager of an airline, would you hire the pilot who pay to work and fly, and you keep his money for your self or would you pay a pilot.
I would take all his money and if he is not happy with the job, I kick him out!!!
anyway, happy or not, if he can not pay me, I kick him out anyway.
BTW, I am a recruiter but not in aviation, and the bad thing is :I have to pay my employees, arrrrr!!!!
I agree with you. I have been even baned from this forum.Probably for excessive truth I have said in the past.
Young people are blind, and airlines know some of these teenager 'parents are ready to fork a fortune to see their kid in a jet plane. Study the 14 ATPL is not really hard , it takes 6-7 months of "hard" studing.So yes, any loser can become a pilot and it is why we have to many pilots on this market, and schools, companies make fun of these guys and make them pay all they can.
if you were manager of an airline, would you hire the pilot who pay to work and fly, and you keep his money for your self or would you pay a pilot.
I would take all his money and if he is not happy with the job, I kick him out!!!
anyway, happy or not, if he can not pay me, I kick him out anyway.
BTW, I am a recruiter but not in aviation, and the bad thing is :I have to pay my employees, arrrrr!!!!
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It's a bit unrealistic don't you think, that all of a sudden all pilots will not pay for a type rating 
if i dont pay someone else will... Well im not at that stage yet, but when the time arrives i will have to give heaps of consideration if i will or i will not pay for a type rating, i don't want to pay, but if i have to i will. 
if i dont pay someone else will... Well im not at that stage yet, but when the time arrives i will have to give heaps of consideration if i will or i will not pay for a type rating, i don't want to pay, but if i have to i will.
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Young people are blind, and airlines know some of these teenager 'parents are ready to fork a fortune to see their kid in a jet plane.
We all agree its now deemed acceptable to go and fund our own training. It goes without saying if its possible to save the money and be sponsored, anybody will choose that. It also goes without saying that if somebody can get a type-rating paid for, then that will also be done. However, if you're prepared to pay up to 65k on getting licenced, then isn't it worth spending that bit more to make the initial 65k worthwhile??! Believe me, I don't want to ever pay for a type-rating any more than the next person, but I'll do whatever I need to do to ensure long-term success in the only career I have ever wanted.
Blind, no. Open minded, yes.
Just a thought.... FJ2k
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Fastjet2k
Its this bit that concerns a lot of people (myself included). Is it really only a "bit more"? Do you not think its conceivable that, once everybody accepts that paying for a type rating is a requirement, that the airlines will move onto the next opportunity to squeeze money out of their pilots? Paying for line training is already happening. What's next? Ryanair are already milking their workforce for all its worth with their plans to make their pilots pay for their uniforms, sim checks, medical renewals on days off etc.
And once the above is the accepted norm, what about paying for a new type rating every time you change type or move operators? All of a sudden its not a bit more you're spending, but a never ending reduction in the t+c's for those who are prepared to do anything to follow "the dream".
PW
However, if you're prepared to pay up to 65k on getting licenced, then isn't it worth spending that bit more to make the initial 65k worthwhile??!
And once the above is the accepted norm, what about paying for a new type rating every time you change type or move operators? All of a sudden its not a bit more you're spending, but a never ending reduction in the t+c's for those who are prepared to do anything to follow "the dream".
PW
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This is just it... People don't see the long term affect this will have. I have first hand experience of t's and c's being cut after only one year. The company in question lowered F/O pay by 5K from 22K in one year. AND included flight pay in the lower salary when the guys have never had flight pay!! Now the Cabin crew are earning way more then the flight deck crew. Reason behind it: The accountant got wind of guys turning up and offering to pay for TR/Line training and to work for nothing fot the first 6 months.
Where will it stop. The Airlines are going to jump on us every step of the way
It's a case of get the job now F
the future. How happy are those pilots going to be when they are declared Bankrupt and yet still earning 25K. They still have to live!!
We're never going to be able to stop these guys going and paying. I'm not even sure if we should. but lets all have a good think about the consequences. I don't really want to bend over every day of my career because of the Slut mentallity some guys now have.
Where will it stop. The Airlines are going to jump on us every step of the way
It's a case of get the job now F
the future. How happy are those pilots going to be when they are declared Bankrupt and yet still earning 25K. They still have to live!! We're never going to be able to stop these guys going and paying. I'm not even sure if we should. but lets all have a good think about the consequences. I don't really want to bend over every day of my career because of the Slut mentallity some guys now have.
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what is the problem to buy a t/r, go to your bank and ask for money.In the UK, you are rich , no?
ask all the money you want, then file bankruptcy...
it is what airlines want, so do it!
ask all the money you want, then file bankruptcy...
it is what airlines want, so do it!
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I cant help but concur with springbok..and pen. Once again I will ask this question..that Ive asked in this forum around 7 times now...without getting an answer......when will the paying stop?..are you going to pay for your line training?...when you tire of your A320..or 737..are you going to pay to move up?..oh and finally..have you actually got a job to go to?...or are you just buying a type rating on the off chance.
The company I work for bond pilots....no money up front..but you incurr a bond..leave early..and you pay a portion back. Oh and our T & C's are being eroded by the "I have more money than sense" muppets.
H
The company I work for bond pilots....no money up front..but you incurr a bond..leave early..and you pay a portion back. Oh and our T & C's are being eroded by the "I have more money than sense" muppets.
H
PPRuNe Handmaiden
easyJet from Nov 04 will be recruiting pilots for their cadet scheme via CTC or the TRSS.
To be eligible for interviews (TRSS) from Nov 04 you'll need a minimum of 1500 hours and 500 hours multi crew on medium to heavy turboprops (or jets). Note, your application will be accepted if you have less than those hours but the chances are now slim that you'll be interviewed untill such time as their needs change.
How that affects people who've done a type rating outside of the eJ TRSS and have 100-200 hours on it I don't know. (but less than 1500 hours TT)
To be eligible for interviews (TRSS) from Nov 04 you'll need a minimum of 1500 hours and 500 hours multi crew on medium to heavy turboprops (or jets). Note, your application will be accepted if you have less than those hours but the chances are now slim that you'll be interviewed untill such time as their needs change.
How that affects people who've done a type rating outside of the eJ TRSS and have 100-200 hours on it I don't know. (but less than 1500 hours TT)
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Redsnail.
The last thing i heard is that there would be no more boeing courses for a while and that the next course to start (airbus) was not until April.
Has this changed?. Are Easy wanting people for the New Year?
Any info much appreciated.
Joe
The last thing i heard is that there would be no more boeing courses for a while and that the next course to start (airbus) was not until April.
Has this changed?. Are Easy wanting people for the New Year?
Any info much appreciated.
Joe
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(Ryanair are already milking their workforce for all its worth with their plans to make their pilots pay for their uniforms, sim checks, medical renewals on days off etc.)
Why does every thread seemingly turn or make reference to Ryanair? Why not get away from Ryanair and talk about a more widespread industry?
That said, it is the pilot's responsibility to keep his licence & medical legal, accepted some companies pay for these and consider a medical a duty but there are very many airlines who do not and by very far, not just Ryanair!
What next, a day off work to go and renew his licence?
Why does every thread seemingly turn or make reference to Ryanair? Why not get away from Ryanair and talk about a more widespread industry?
That said, it is the pilot's responsibility to keep his licence & medical legal, accepted some companies pay for these and consider a medical a duty but there are very many airlines who do not and by very far, not just Ryanair!
What next, a day off work to go and renew his licence?
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Phileas Fogg
Why do you think threads continually make reference to Ryanair when it comes to talking about T&C's and erosion thereof?
Other airlines consider it a duty to do the medical etc quite simply because it is. As a required part of your ability to work, it is very much the companies duty to look after you in this matter. I think you will find that most companies, in any sphere of industry, provide, on company time, all that is required for the employee to maintain his/her output.
Such things, and training too incidentally, are the cost of doing business. If you don't like this, I suggest you do not do business.
Why do you think threads continually make reference to Ryanair when it comes to talking about T&C's and erosion thereof?
Other airlines consider it a duty to do the medical etc quite simply because it is. As a required part of your ability to work, it is very much the companies duty to look after you in this matter. I think you will find that most companies, in any sphere of industry, provide, on company time, all that is required for the employee to maintain his/her output.
Such things, and training too incidentally, are the cost of doing business. If you don't like this, I suggest you do not do business.