Paying for type-rating.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Aviation is going back to where it was 100 years ago: Pilot job accessible only to rich people
On most threads you can find three types of reaction to that situation:
1) Rich young guys saying: the employer wants me to pay to get a job, I will pay because I can and there is no other way round
2) Poor guys who can’t pay and use the arguments of category 3 type to justify their reluctance to pay
3) Established pilots who did not have to pay for their ratings and claim that category 1 paying pilots, by doing so ruin their T’&C’s.
What I would ask to well established category 3 pilots is what have you done to protect new pilots T’&C’s, and more importantly what, apart the judicious advice “don’t pay, stay on the dole so that our T’&C’s don’t deteriorate” are you doing to help things change ?
The truth is they are doing NOTHING!!!
When their boss came a few years ago, and told them: Things are going bad we will have to reduce the salaries…
They came up with that wonderful idea, called the B scale, all new entrants will be paid less for 2-3 years, and their own salary wouldn’t be reduced.
The boss came again a few years later with the same request
Again same easy answer: make the new guys pay for their ratings but don’t touch our salary…
So Category 3 pilots stop with your good advice, what would be pilots need is HELP.
On most threads you can find three types of reaction to that situation:
1) Rich young guys saying: the employer wants me to pay to get a job, I will pay because I can and there is no other way round
2) Poor guys who can’t pay and use the arguments of category 3 type to justify their reluctance to pay
3) Established pilots who did not have to pay for their ratings and claim that category 1 paying pilots, by doing so ruin their T’&C’s.
What I would ask to well established category 3 pilots is what have you done to protect new pilots T’&C’s, and more importantly what, apart the judicious advice “don’t pay, stay on the dole so that our T’&C’s don’t deteriorate” are you doing to help things change ?
The truth is they are doing NOTHING!!!
When their boss came a few years ago, and told them: Things are going bad we will have to reduce the salaries…
They came up with that wonderful idea, called the B scale, all new entrants will be paid less for 2-3 years, and their own salary wouldn’t be reduced.
The boss came again a few years later with the same request
Again same easy answer: make the new guys pay for their ratings but don’t touch our salary…
So Category 3 pilots stop with your good advice, what would be pilots need is HELP.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Maximum,
OK, we'll have to agree to differ, I've worked for numerous operators only one of which, 20+ years ago, was semi low cost and I think you will find that it is not 'other airlines consider it a duty' but 'some airlines consider it a duty'.
Thats all
OK, we'll have to agree to differ, I've worked for numerous operators only one of which, 20+ years ago, was semi low cost and I think you will find that it is not 'other airlines consider it a duty' but 'some airlines consider it a duty'.
Thats all
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Hi,
May not be totally relevant but no harm to know what T&G,s exist outside the airlines. I recently retired from an international offshore oil/gas company. Like pilots we had to renew mandatory certificates annualy or biannualy. These included ;
Medical; Sea-Survival; Uderwater-Escape; Firefighting ;First-Aid;
Helicopter Landing Officer; First Aid etc etc.
Never once was it suggested that we bear any of these costs ourselves and this is the case for all offshore companies. Why dont the various pilot unions insist on these basic entitlements for their members?
Willby
May not be totally relevant but no harm to know what T&G,s exist outside the airlines. I recently retired from an international offshore oil/gas company. Like pilots we had to renew mandatory certificates annualy or biannualy. These included ;
Medical; Sea-Survival; Uderwater-Escape; Firefighting ;First-Aid;
Helicopter Landing Officer; First Aid etc etc.
Never once was it suggested that we bear any of these costs ourselves and this is the case for all offshore companies. Why dont the various pilot unions insist on these basic entitlements for their members?
Willby
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: France
Age: 73
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Never once was it suggested that we bear any of these costs ourselves and this is the case for all offshore companies. Why don’t the various pilot unions insist on these basic entitlements for their members?
Because as you may not know, Pilot unions leaders are well established captains whose unique preoccupation in life is the amount of salary they can get, and the retirement pension they will grasp in exchange of their acceptation of lowest T & C’s for their younger colleagues.
If MOL hadn’t threatened to modify those DUBLIN old chaps T & C’s, there would never have been unrest at RYANAIR, these guys howling their desperation now had done nothing for years to protect the younger pilots T & C’s.
They ripe what they sowed and I am afraid it’s all too late now …
Join Date: Oct 2004
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DON`T PAY!!!
Hi guys,
I’m a pilot in Slovakia. I have finished the university and I joined the Airline (low cost) directly.
Without paying cent for type rating and I will NEVER PAY for this.
All the courses are enough to pay.
There are a lot of abroad pilots here and a lot of them paid for type ratings.
I thing this is the aim of low cost companies around the globe.
BUT this will lead the companies to give jobs to all “jays” which are able to pay instead off pilots which know their own price on the market.
This days situation in business is occasion for pilots to not to pay!!!
The aviation is globe market and we pilots; we are just a little element in this machine. We have to act pro solido!
Hi bluefalcon,
Sorry for saing this I just simply don`t understand your point of view.
You look like to be absolutely at peace with this situation.
Let me tell you my personal opinion:
I didn’t pay for type rating, but I paid for all courses to meet minimum requirements for joining airlines. BUT there are countries and opportunities to pass all courses with some support from serious airlines, which are not interesting only to HAVE pilots, but to have as good pilots as possible. And the main criteria should be quality. Not the money.
Sorry for telling this, I don’t thing the pilots which paid for TR are not good enough, I’m only saying this give the chance, to airlines, to make the money the main criteria.
Happy landings, Roman.
I’m a pilot in Slovakia. I have finished the university and I joined the Airline (low cost) directly.
Without paying cent for type rating and I will NEVER PAY for this.
All the courses are enough to pay.
There are a lot of abroad pilots here and a lot of them paid for type ratings.
I thing this is the aim of low cost companies around the globe.
BUT this will lead the companies to give jobs to all “jays” which are able to pay instead off pilots which know their own price on the market.
This days situation in business is occasion for pilots to not to pay!!!
The aviation is globe market and we pilots; we are just a little element in this machine. We have to act pro solido!
Hi bluefalcon,
Sorry for saing this I just simply don`t understand your point of view.
You look like to be absolutely at peace with this situation.
Let me tell you my personal opinion:
I didn’t pay for type rating, but I paid for all courses to meet minimum requirements for joining airlines. BUT there are countries and opportunities to pass all courses with some support from serious airlines, which are not interesting only to HAVE pilots, but to have as good pilots as possible. And the main criteria should be quality. Not the money.
Sorry for telling this, I don’t thing the pilots which paid for TR are not good enough, I’m only saying this give the chance, to airlines, to make the money the main criteria.
Happy landings, Roman.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Type Ratings and Modular Training rather then CTC etc
Hi
I have been reading your above threads regarding the type rating and self funding.
Personally I dont agree with the employee paying for a type rating also considering the aircraft fleets might change alot in the next few years. i.e. 737's to A319/A320's.
I was invited to one of those Sponsorship scheme interviews and tests at CTC recently. Havent gone yet but I was looking at the training costs taking into account I already have a PPL and it seemed expensive. Also I was concerned that places like that might be places that really push people through not really getting the proper grounding on stuff at the slower place which they may need.
I am still thinking the best route would be to train through a modular course for exams, do the CPL/ME/IR one after another and then perhaps try and go through someone like CTC if you had to for that Type rating.
Also I was recently in the U.S at a flight school that I wont name to do a few hours. Realised that I would rather spend that bit more money in doing my commercial ratings here in the U.K. Especially the IR.
One last thought regarding the typing ratings, I read recently that some sort of JAA multi crew license will be coming out in 2006 and in the article and it mentioned that this would have students doing type ratings as apart of the course.
As someone doing modular ATPL exam study at the moment, I am trying to get more information on this.
Cheers
I have been reading your above threads regarding the type rating and self funding.
Personally I dont agree with the employee paying for a type rating also considering the aircraft fleets might change alot in the next few years. i.e. 737's to A319/A320's.
I was invited to one of those Sponsorship scheme interviews and tests at CTC recently. Havent gone yet but I was looking at the training costs taking into account I already have a PPL and it seemed expensive. Also I was concerned that places like that might be places that really push people through not really getting the proper grounding on stuff at the slower place which they may need.
I am still thinking the best route would be to train through a modular course for exams, do the CPL/ME/IR one after another and then perhaps try and go through someone like CTC if you had to for that Type rating.
Also I was recently in the U.S at a flight school that I wont name to do a few hours. Realised that I would rather spend that bit more money in doing my commercial ratings here in the U.K. Especially the IR.
One last thought regarding the typing ratings, I read recently that some sort of JAA multi crew license will be coming out in 2006 and in the article and it mentioned that this would have students doing type ratings as apart of the course.
As someone doing modular ATPL exam study at the moment, I am trying to get more information on this.
Cheers
