I will NOT pay for a T/R
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NL
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What nonsense. If you don't want to pay for a type rating then don't and stop whinging about it. I paid for my own type rating and have decent job so I do not regret it. When I decided to pursue aviation as a career I was fully aware of how tough finding a job was likely to be. Flying as a profession has many attractions (for obvious reasons) and that is why many of the flying schools are full. If you want to pursue another profession (like doctor or lawyer) you will find that this entails yours of debt and education followed by more years of hard work and low pay. A type rating is exactly the same in that it is a professional qualification. Why should pilots be treated differently to other professions especially when there are so many able and willing people who wish to pursue this as their career. At the end of the day it is survival of the fittest and to assume that you are entitled to 'this and that' just because you have a frozen ATPL or whatever is very arrogant. When you do eventually start climbing the ladder you will find it rewarding and all those struggles seem worth it. But everybody has to start somewhere and a more positive attitude is likely to be of some benefit to you.
Fastmover321,
Bang on if you ask me.
I also paid for my own rating and am now gainfully employed building hours in a jet..... Rest assured if I'd not had the rating I'd still be looking for work.
And, to add, almost without exception, most of the pilots I fly with also paid for some rating at some point in the past - go figure.
It's a chance you take, does not work for every one, but then that gamble started when you first paid for first step onto the commercial ladder, and carried on through IR's, MCC etc etc.
Thats all I'll say on the subject.
For the record, I went straight from GA to RHS jet at the not so youthfull 43.
Probably my last post.
Signing off. Safe flying..
Splat.
Bang on if you ask me.
I also paid for my own rating and am now gainfully employed building hours in a jet..... Rest assured if I'd not had the rating I'd still be looking for work.
And, to add, almost without exception, most of the pilots I fly with also paid for some rating at some point in the past - go figure.
It's a chance you take, does not work for every one, but then that gamble started when you first paid for first step onto the commercial ladder, and carried on through IR's, MCC etc etc.
Thats all I'll say on the subject.
For the record, I went straight from GA to RHS jet at the not so youthfull 43.
Probably my last post.
Signing off. Safe flying..
Splat.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Surrounding the localizer
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
1 Post
All well and good fast mover & splat...one question though. when you want to move on..fly a different type or mayby do some recurrency training....are you going to pay for that too? its thanks to the likes of you that many of us are now in a position that the companies we are flying for, see this as a legitimate way of cutting costs and generating revenue..thanks for nothing
Now im looking at the thickend of a not too inconsiderable sum for a renewal.
Now im looking at the thickend of a not too inconsiderable sum for a renewal.
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fastmover321 wrote:
If you want to pursue another profession (like doctor or lawyer) you will find that this entails yours of debt and education followed by more years of hard work and low pay. A type rating is exactly the same in that it is a professional qualification. Why should pilots be treated differently to other professions
If you want to pursue another profession (like doctor or lawyer) you will find that this entails yours of debt and education followed by more years of hard work and low pay. A type rating is exactly the same in that it is a professional qualification. Why should pilots be treated differently to other professions
Post-graduate specialist professional training is accepted in most professions as properly the employer's responsibilty. I can just about accept the premise that a speculative purchase of a type rating is a legitimate, if undesirable, way of impoving your employability, but I cannot accept the idea, now becoming general, that you should be expected to pay for training after you have been contracted to a company. I do not, however, regard lower pay for new pilots as unreasonable.
You chose to buy a rating, as is your privilege, and it worked for you. Unfortunately, the more people do this, the more companies will expect their raw recruits to come with, or to pay for, a type rating. It's difficult to know how to stop it, but it can't be seen as a good thing by anyone except airline accountants.
Scroggs
Guest
Posts: n/a
This business is the best in the world. I fly the Airbus and couldn't think of anything better to do for a living.
I spent several years bitching about why other guys got jobs when I wasn’t able regardless of the fact that some had less experience.
This is a competitive industry; everyone wants the few jobs available. I decided to put my money where my mouth was and paid 23k for an A320 TR in 2001 just before Sept 11th.
2 Years later I got my first A320 Job through an agency.
I'm now with the UK’s largest A320 operator and my investment has been paid back 5 times over already.
My message is simple, you must have the edge in this business so find out what that is and get it. (Do you really want it bad enough?)
There are lots of rip off companies selling Type Ratings be careful, only use reputable companies such as GeCat in Gatwick.
Its almost impossible to get a commitment from a company before you start unless your part of a self sponsored scheme. This is because when companies need pilots they can't wait 6-8 weeks on the chance that you will pass with flying colours. Get the TR then apply. No experience means a crap contract abroad on low pay but thats when you'll get your hours and pretty soon you will be telling them what you want if they need experienced FO's.
Anyway, it worked for me. Took years and lots of worry, cash and sacrifice but I’m there now and wouldn't change it for the world.
On another note, I've done the following interviews over the years;
Brymon / BRAL / GB Airways / Bmed / Citiexpress / MyTravel / BA mainline / EasyJet as well as sim rides for contract work.
My advice;
BE YOURSELF! Don’t bull****, get as much info about the interview and practice your basic flying skills like hell before the SIM.
If your asked a tech question on type and you dont know, just say where the info is in the FCOM and that will do fine. Keep your cool at all times.
By the way, I got 4 of the above jobs and turned down 2 because there terms and pay were crap.
I spent several years bitching about why other guys got jobs when I wasn’t able regardless of the fact that some had less experience.
This is a competitive industry; everyone wants the few jobs available. I decided to put my money where my mouth was and paid 23k for an A320 TR in 2001 just before Sept 11th.
2 Years later I got my first A320 Job through an agency.
I'm now with the UK’s largest A320 operator and my investment has been paid back 5 times over already.
My message is simple, you must have the edge in this business so find out what that is and get it. (Do you really want it bad enough?)
There are lots of rip off companies selling Type Ratings be careful, only use reputable companies such as GeCat in Gatwick.
Its almost impossible to get a commitment from a company before you start unless your part of a self sponsored scheme. This is because when companies need pilots they can't wait 6-8 weeks on the chance that you will pass with flying colours. Get the TR then apply. No experience means a crap contract abroad on low pay but thats when you'll get your hours and pretty soon you will be telling them what you want if they need experienced FO's.
Anyway, it worked for me. Took years and lots of worry, cash and sacrifice but I’m there now and wouldn't change it for the world.
On another note, I've done the following interviews over the years;
Brymon / BRAL / GB Airways / Bmed / Citiexpress / MyTravel / BA mainline / EasyJet as well as sim rides for contract work.
My advice;
BE YOURSELF! Don’t bull****, get as much info about the interview and practice your basic flying skills like hell before the SIM.
If your asked a tech question on type and you dont know, just say where the info is in the FCOM and that will do fine. Keep your cool at all times.
By the way, I got 4 of the above jobs and turned down 2 because there terms and pay were crap.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hahahahahahaha........what a frigging joke guys....
it is and always will be a catch 22 situation.
....get us a flying license.......
....oh, have you done an approved course of training?....
....do a type rating and then apply.........
..... oh, have you got 500 hrs on type?......
......oh good you have the type rating you have done an approved course AND you got all the licenses....NOW...how old are you?
and it goes on and on and on and on......
it is simple...STOP!!!!
and for those who were able to get the type-rating consider those who have not even got a quid to buy themselves a macdonalds!!!..so if you had the money others dont have it and yet they are very motivated and professional.
it is and always will be a catch 22 situation.
....get us a flying license.......
....oh, have you done an approved course of training?....
....do a type rating and then apply.........
..... oh, have you got 500 hrs on type?......
......oh good you have the type rating you have done an approved course AND you got all the licenses....NOW...how old are you?
and it goes on and on and on and on......
it is simple...STOP!!!!
and for those who were able to get the type-rating consider those who have not even got a quid to buy themselves a macdonalds!!!..so if you had the money others dont have it and yet they are very motivated and professional.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
superman/skyman
You have now gone and started two other threads spouting the same crap.
I suggest you do us all a favour and stop banging on about this. Everyone knows it, YOU took the risk in gaining a licence.
You have now gone and started two other threads spouting the same crap.
I suggest you do us all a favour and stop banging on about this. Everyone knows it, YOU took the risk in gaining a licence.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I can understand why this guy is so angry. Unfortunately and I’m sorry for you, with that attitude you might not make it.
I said above (Do you want it bad enough?) Those who do will get it in the end.
Besides, for the best job in the world, do you expect it on a plate? No one is going to give it to you. It’s down to you to get the ticks in box's and then the job.
Someone asked how I kept my rating current in the two years I waited for a job. The fact is I didn't!
When I was offered a job with Volare Airlines in Italy through a UK agency it was on the basis that I was current. So 6 weeks before I started, I paid another 5k to renew my A320 LPC or (IR) if you like.
When I went to Italy I was put into a SIM for a company OPC/LPC check ride without any training. I just scrapped through because of my recent training. My line training of just 10 sectors was the hardest learning curve of my life and I almost through in the towel. However after a few weeks I was ahead of the game and the enjoyment became outstanding.
There were a few guys in Italy that hadn't flown the A320 for 10 months and one Swedish guy (A good, decent, friendly guy. One of the lads really.) Was sent packing because his SIM was poor. I'm not surprised since he hadn’t flown for 10 months. If they had given him a few hours training he would have been fine. Unfortunately like I said before, its competitive the Airlines don't have time for training in some cases and rely on you being the best out there! So the ball is in your court.
The guy complaining on this forum would probably be the guy sent home I’m sorry to say. The sad thing is that he probably enjoys flying as much as me or anyone else but this is a small industry of very clever, skilled individuals and a limited number of jobs.
I said above (Do you want it bad enough?) Those who do will get it in the end.
Besides, for the best job in the world, do you expect it on a plate? No one is going to give it to you. It’s down to you to get the ticks in box's and then the job.
Someone asked how I kept my rating current in the two years I waited for a job. The fact is I didn't!
When I was offered a job with Volare Airlines in Italy through a UK agency it was on the basis that I was current. So 6 weeks before I started, I paid another 5k to renew my A320 LPC or (IR) if you like.
When I went to Italy I was put into a SIM for a company OPC/LPC check ride without any training. I just scrapped through because of my recent training. My line training of just 10 sectors was the hardest learning curve of my life and I almost through in the towel. However after a few weeks I was ahead of the game and the enjoyment became outstanding.
There were a few guys in Italy that hadn't flown the A320 for 10 months and one Swedish guy (A good, decent, friendly guy. One of the lads really.) Was sent packing because his SIM was poor. I'm not surprised since he hadn’t flown for 10 months. If they had given him a few hours training he would have been fine. Unfortunately like I said before, its competitive the Airlines don't have time for training in some cases and rely on you being the best out there! So the ball is in your court.
The guy complaining on this forum would probably be the guy sent home I’m sorry to say. The sad thing is that he probably enjoys flying as much as me or anyone else but this is a small industry of very clever, skilled individuals and a limited number of jobs.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bableton,
send us some money to keep current. Maybe you are rich, I am not!
some people have to work hard to stay current, and when banks are runing after you, you save your money for what it is more important .pay your debt (and your food)
I could buy a t/r on the A320, B737,... but how I am going to pay that???
seriously, you make me laugh!
send us some money to keep current. Maybe you are rich, I am not!
some people have to work hard to stay current, and when banks are runing after you, you save your money for what it is more important .pay your debt (and your food)
I could buy a t/r on the A320, B737,... but how I am going to pay that???
seriously, you make me laugh!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Skyman,
I happen to know Bableton. He was A320 low houred from a couple of years previously, had been flying small props but wanted back into jets.
Before spending his money last year he couldn't get an A320 job despite previous efforts. Since spending that money the airlines have been, what seems like, chasing him and he's had the privelidged position of turning job offers away.
Skyman, the aviation industry does not owe you a job, like any profession you have to apply and the airlines are likely to take the most suitably qualified applicant(s) and if that includes paying 5k for recurrent training, or indeed paying for a full type-rating, then that's life i'm afraid!
Of course, had Bableton not found 5k he'd still be on those small props which, from the sound of it, you're going to be retiring on.
I happen to know Bableton. He was A320 low houred from a couple of years previously, had been flying small props but wanted back into jets.
Before spending his money last year he couldn't get an A320 job despite previous efforts. Since spending that money the airlines have been, what seems like, chasing him and he's had the privelidged position of turning job offers away.
Skyman, the aviation industry does not owe you a job, like any profession you have to apply and the airlines are likely to take the most suitably qualified applicant(s) and if that includes paying 5k for recurrent training, or indeed paying for a full type-rating, then that's life i'm afraid!
Of course, had Bableton not found 5k he'd still be on those small props which, from the sound of it, you're going to be retiring on.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did not say that the industry owns us a job, I said it is damn hard to get a job in this field, and that wanabes should be ready to spend a fortune with a risk of no return for years.Even look for another job.
Be a pilot is not my first degree, but I do not appreciate the way the industry treats us so badly. like superman 32 said: it must stop!
Be a pilot is not my first degree, but I do not appreciate the way the industry treats us so badly. like superman 32 said: it must stop!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Wow, This is a sore subject.
I'm sorry that you can't get the cash Skyman. I spent 10 years robbing my small business to scrape my pennies together. Sorry but there are several instructors I know, working hard for bugger all that I'd give the money to before I'd throw it your way. Like I said before if you want it bad enough you'll get it. I do realise that its not possible for everyone and I guess that’s part of the filtering down process, not everybody makes it.
I did my ATPL's at 30 Years Old so I had to throw loads of Cash at it! I f your young enough then just chill for a few years, you might get a brake. If my advise is worth anything then be positive because believe me the frustration can take over your life.
I have recently heard that Flybe have taken a few low hour piston guys. A mate of mine from HACS has just started. Good luck to you Joe!
On another Note, How do you Know Me Phileas Fogg?
I'm sorry that you can't get the cash Skyman. I spent 10 years robbing my small business to scrape my pennies together. Sorry but there are several instructors I know, working hard for bugger all that I'd give the money to before I'd throw it your way. Like I said before if you want it bad enough you'll get it. I do realise that its not possible for everyone and I guess that’s part of the filtering down process, not everybody makes it.
I did my ATPL's at 30 Years Old so I had to throw loads of Cash at it! I f your young enough then just chill for a few years, you might get a brake. If my advise is worth anything then be positive because believe me the frustration can take over your life.
I have recently heard that Flybe have taken a few low hour piston guys. A mate of mine from HACS has just started. Good luck to you Joe!
On another Note, How do you Know Me Phileas Fogg?
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: somewhere
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Everyone,
Only rich people should be allowed to fly a plane!!!! its a superiority kind of thing. If you've got it, flaunt it. And also dont touch what you cant afford, its quite simple.
Dont forget to rotate
Only rich people should be allowed to fly a plane!!!! its a superiority kind of thing. If you've got it, flaunt it. And also dont touch what you cant afford, its quite simple.
Dont forget to rotate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
so, what should I do. look for some money to pay my own type???and where??? and who will employ me?
after the MCC, now we must pay again for a type.
when I am going to make some money?
after the MCC, now we must pay again for a type.
when I am going to make some money?