I will NOT pay for a T/R

[Monitorverticalspeed]

This debate has been raging on now for a good year and a half if not more, and will continue to do so.
I bit the bullet nov last year and did it, i sit here now with 500 hours on the NG.

Best risk i ever took..if your gonna do it nows the time ready for the summer season next year ......now where's that lottery ticket?

[Snigs]

You're just generating a two tier training system, one for the have's and one for the have-not's. Eventually the have not's will disappear!

Monitorverticalspeed did you pay for the 500 hours??

[Craggenmore]

I bit the bullet nov last year and did it, i sit here now with 500 hours on the NG

Monitorverticalspeed et al...

will you bite the bullet and pay for each type rating that you do in the future? Perhaps because of your actions, multi fleet airlines might realise that they can charge for this.

Suddenly that kitchen extension gets a bit smaller...

Craggs

[RPeagram]

Even though the kitchen extension will get smaller the fact remains that the situation will become more and more similar to that of the US. It's simple. If you want to be a pilot (self sponsored) you will need 100k spare cash. If not, the other option is a loan which may severely reduce your quality of life. If house prices collapse recent buyers will be in negative equity. That coupled with a loan to be pilot you'll end up homeless. Definitely worthwhile finding out if you have the situational awareness (or brain power) to pass selection tests and interviews before setting off on pilot journey.

Those with money will get the jobs. You need hours. Type ratings will give you 250 more house than fATPL pilots. It's survival of the fittest, those with money will naturally not care about their dignity and pay for a TR. Call it prostituting yourself, who cares, the rich, financial gamblers (the very lucky ones) will end up sitting in a RHS.

The tide has turned. Airline companies know were desperate, supply greatly out numbers demand and, therefore, will never pay for your TR for the foreseeable future. It's, Skyman68, very important that people like yourself still stand up and shout. Although the situation can't be changed it's important to voice discontent. Try a technique like the fox hunters. Storm into a few HQs. See if that works.

Alternatively everyone, natural selection differs across the world. If you’re that desperate why try to break into one of the toughest markets in the world. Move, migrate to sunny pastures. You never know you may even be able to see the runway instead of constant cloud cover at 3000feet 365 days a year.

As for myself I've secured an alternative career if it doesn't work out in teaching. So, for now, I'm off to save some extra money to prostitute myself. I have dignity - honest

Regards all,
RP

[Arrowhead]

Monitorverticalspeed

Both 2 people I knew that were 737 rated and unemployed have just gained jobs with Air Asia in Kual Lumpur (literally over the last 3 months). I believe they are still gagging for British trained pilots there, esp those with hours. Go for it!

[Carpathia]

If this airline is "gagging" for pilot, why the hell would you pay for a rating? We're in serious trouble if these goons will still pay for a rating themselves even when a demand appears to exist.

Help save this profession from SSTR's!

[Monitorverticalspeed]

No, i didn't pay for any hours i did the classic rating and then went to work and they paid ME to fly their aircraft and still do, they also paid for my differences course.

If your gonna do it, do it don't um and ar on here by the time you do, it'll be too late!

[skyman68]

the system is not like in the USA, more job for US citizen and cheaper training.

thanks for all your replies, at least i am not alone in this cruel world.

Suppose I pay for my type?, I am now out of the list for Easyjet and Ryanair who ask for NO TYPE RATED PILOTS.

then, I will be at the "same"level(let say in the same s...t!!) with the 2000h jet guys when I will have only 35 hours simulator in my logbook,...and to hear at the end:"come back when you have 1500h jet!!". this is not a good option.

The best option so far is to keep my money for an employer who would be interested by my qualification and MY MONEY of course. but NO JOB =NO MONEY!is that clear? I am fedup of these schools trying to sell us type ratings or guys making us believe that if you pay for a type you can get job.I strongly thinks than some guys on PPRune work for some schools and they get free advertising.

for the guy who mentioned that the grass is greener in Africa(in quebec or whatever he wants), I have tried that and I am not looking to fly for a French bannanerie in the middle of the jungle and be paid peanuts.Yellow fewer, no thanks!

as for the FI idea, I did that already, and not interested to fly on of these old carburator noisy aircrafts.What I want is a real job with a real salary.Thanks to all these schools who have trained me at the standards that no companies want.

I do not know what is going on in this world? But to ask so much money to a 22-35 years old student to buy his own type rating is simply scandalous. I thought England was a country with intelligent people full of "bon sens".it is not, and I lost my faith in the UK system.This country is set on a ripp-off system and I hope the whole system will crash(I say that because I am pissed..!!) one day exactly like France did where 5 or 6 companies have already filed bankrupt so much they were corrupted(btw in France, we are all pissed!!) .

I worry that in 10 years or so, pilots will fly for free after paying their own type and in this case this pilot job will be reserved for only the richest men!I should open a subject like" where do you will be in 10 years?"some guys will reply:"in 10 years, I will pay my boss to flip burgers to feed my kids with the rest of the trash, or i will be a pimp."

I will post again next week.Have a good week folks!

[Frank Furillo]

Ouch,
interesting outlook Skyman, while I do not agree with SSTR I must say that if a Type rating will get me a job then tough. thats life.
I went to the school of hard knocks and if it's the only way to get a foothold in the airline business then that is what i will have to do. Why? well as i am already into £30k for fATPL plus living expenses.
When I started this route I knew i might have to pay for more than a fATPL.
So did you and everybody else who is doing this, you must have unless you had your eyes closed.
Why do you spend so much time moaning, why don't you find somthing better to do?

[FFP]

I must say that I sympathise with the current situation. Probably won't help to say my fATPL will cost about £1700 total. I think the sad fact is that there will always be people who will pay for that type rating and I have no doubt people would be willing to haggle for X months sat in the RHS not getting paid in order to leapfrog over others who would only go for less than X months.

A terrible situation. Look to BALPA . . . . . .. . . . . . . .

[Phileas Fogg]

Not taking sides here, for or against paying for a type rating, but I believe there's a factor to be borne in mind.

I note the majority of the posts here, against, are from UK. I read recently, in another thread, complaints regarding foreigners taking UK jobs.

One should not necessarily regard EU nationals as foreigners, UK citizens have the right to work in their countries and likewise, they have right to work in UK.

Whilst the British may like to make a stand against paying for a T/R there are other nationalities available here, with a different outlook, who will pay and some will subsequently work in UK.

Aviation has been on the 'up' recently but it's not going to stay like that forever. Whilst one may admire the attitude to 'stick to one's guns' until such time as, if ever, the airlines relent but that day may never come and soon you may find 'your' jobs taken by other EU nationals.

[Cabotage Kid]

Phileas,

Brits find it harder to work in the EU because continental employers tend to require sufficient fluency in their mother toungue. As English is such a universal language it is naturally easier for Johnny Foriegner to get work here.

If these crazy requirements, that carriers like Lufty have, persist then it is clearly not a level playing field.

If paying for a TR is generally in line with some kind of bonding arrangements (Like EasyJet) then there are is little to complain about. If we are forced to speculate then it is a ludicrous situation from neither side will gain anything positive.

[Cabotage Kid]

You miss the point by a distance comparable to the gap between
us and the sun.

The UK is a major force in aviation. If you live in Germany, Italy, Spain, etc and speak English you have just multiplied you opportunities. Any suggestions as to what language I should learn this month to increase my opportunities by maybe one of two stuffy employers?

[Phileas Fogg]

Cabotage,
Your point that it's easier for 'them' to work in UK and not so easy vice versa only serves to strengthen the point I was trying to make.

[Cabotage Kid]

I should point out that I'm half German so I have no axe to grind. I'm looking at it objectively not personally.

[Cabotage Kid]

Hi studi,

I respect your view but I think we'll have agree to disagree on the relative weighting of employment opportunities in our respective countries.

BUT: you can find many jobs without learning any foreign language, contrary to me. Foul or not?

Good point and all said and done probably very true!

[Penworth]

I'm not really wanting to get into the whole "foreigners" debate again, which, incidentally, I don't happen to believe there's an issue with - anybody can work anywhere they are entitled to work (which is a government issue, not an airline one). However, Studi, I have to take issue with your assertion that someone who learns German is in exactly the same situation as a german who learns english. Whereas learning the former would open up the few airlines which exist in Germany and the handful of German speaking countries, learning english will open up vast tracts of the aviation world including North America, Africa and Australia.

I think in a way english speakers are a victim of the english language's success. Because it is so commonly spoken, and is probably the foremost language in aviation, there is less of an incentive to learn other languages, and as a result native english speakers tend to be less proficient at picking up other languages. Compare this to, say, someone from Luxembourg, who is unlikely to speak fewer than 3 languages, simply because that is the way things are done there.

I'm in no way defending those who don't bother learning another language to get a job in that country though - that should be a given, just as we'd expect someone coming to the UK to speak english.

Back to the topic though - I'll never pay for a speculative type rating, simply because I can't afford to. It scares me when you hear people saying, I'm £60k in debt, so I've got to gamble another £20k to try and get a job - sounds to me like a lot of people go into this game without any kind of a backup plan

Just my thoughts

PW

[Phileas Fogg]

Penworth,
Only half of Africa though, the other half is French. Learning a language doesn't necessarily give the opportunity to work, try working in USA without a green card for instance!

[Cabotage Kid]

Studi,

Most Brits know only know one and a half languages. Nearly all other Europeans know at least two (one of which is English). The moment the average Brit leaves school they cannot realistically (for the most part) work in anything else than a English speaking working environment. Your average European cannot operate in business without the second language so learning English is engrained in the educational system, it is a priority. In Holland half the adverts are in English and the much of the telly is in English.

My original point is that off the blocks the Brits are at a disadvantage. If having to put in the effort to learn a second language after school competes with the amount of time it takes to earn money and learn other useful stuff. That is a disadvantge in comparison to the average EU counterpart.

Nobody's moaning or saying it is unfair...but it is a fact.

Anyway, how about we get back to ranting about type ratings?

[RPeagram]

Just a reminder. Stick to the topic which was posted by Skyman