Atlas STN
 

Hi guys

Seen an ad that Atlas is recruiting in STN.
Any infos about T&C's and rosters?

Thanks
W_G_U

Atlas is recruiting in the US and basing the pilots in STN. As far as I know there is no recruitment for AACS (now called AABO) which is the STN group. Got it?

A bit curt there flight Idol.

Atlas is hiring. All new hires are doomed to STN but will be on the ALPA union contract and seniority list. And so it makes sense for management to look for people who want to work for Atlas and be in STN. Who knows, maybe they will hire all 3 of them.

:O Sorry.......did not mean to sound curt and definitly not towards the original poster!

As per the other chaps, that is where you're going to get based but you will be under the ALPA contract Terms and Conditions not the AACS one (or now known as AABO). Don't believe them if they say you will only be there a short time when interviewed. Hey, that may work for you though.

Here is the Atlas ALPA contract (CBA) IN PDF FORMAT. I didn't attach all of the recent LOA's that go with it. Just the more recent one's on STN. Those are at the end of the file.

The STN base was originally a union busting operation that grew to almost 200 non-union pilots while furloughing the same or more ALPA members on the US side and it was also an attempt to side step the wet leasing laws in the UK. The UK CAA didn't go for the latter and then Atlas created GSS and gave 51 percent stock to a EU citizen. Atlas still leases everything that GSS uses to them to this day. So Atlas got around that also.

AACS (or now known as AABO) continues as a piece of leverage for management against ALPA labor. It is still a very sore spot at the moment with the Atlas crews and I doubt AABO will last through the Atlas/Polar merger that is currently ongoing. At least in it's current form. I don't expect them to get canned, but they won't be enjoying their current rewards for their past actions.

As leverage, the company is constantly doing base realignments and displacing our ALPA guys from their US bases to STN to avoid giving them gateway rights. Many of the STN crew members end up doing US based flying in the end anyway because of these displacements for negotiations instead of base needs. That's the leverage thing that is going on at the moment. The remaining AABO crewmembers is about 60 to 70 guys. They get a lot of the priority in upgrades, super seniority in the STN base and pay for their service to be our replacements. They were "replacements" because they hired at least one AACS guy for every furloughed ALPA guy during their ramping up.

mercpc9
http://cptaudio.com/cgi-bin/hiring/logs.pl

"because they hired at least one AACS guy for every furloughed ALPA guy during their ramping up"

Don't forget that AACS hired non ALPA members because AAWWH crewmembers refused the STN basing.

You are choosing to forget that Atlas openly said that STN was going to be a NON-UNION crew leasing base while in the middle of negotiating a contract with the ALPA union represented Atlas pilots. They could do that due to the Railway Labor Act (RLA) in the US and the initial contract being negotiated with the union. Also, the furloughs began after a cadre of non-union replacements were trained despite a letter saying that there would not be any furloughs because of AACS which was later withdrawn (The Matheny Letter).

I think most would recognize this as union busting "101" and others would blindly just see it as a quick way to a heavy jet and to be a captain at others expense.

I believe only 19 total Atlas crewmembers jumped over to STN for out of seniority upgrades of 600 crew members. I believe the ex CEO R.S called them the "Courageous 19". There are only 7 of them left now.

So as we stand now, STN is still a thorn in the union's side that management tweaks. All hiring now requires the employees to be under the Atlas CBA and seniority list. No more crew leasing guys like AACS (AABO) in STN or at any other base worldwide. AABO is dying on the vine. When management realizes STN and AACS is no longer useful as leverage, they may move the base somewhere useful. Currently, as in the past, there are no Atlas A/C flying through the STN base. Moving it to AMS or PIK would be more meaningfull operationally, but that would negate all of the STN LOA's leverage against the union on STN and management is not ready for that yet.

It would be shame if this thread deteriorates into an Atlas ALPA/AABO squabble. Just a few voices made all of the Atlas and Polar crews look like idiots in the recently closed thread, and it should not be allowed to happen again.

In my opinion most of the Atlas pilots (of which I am one) feel that management over the years has lied to pretty much everyone about what the STN/AACS operation was about, including the AACS pilots and engineers during their interviews.

For those reading this who are not part of the Atlas “family’, the reality is that most of us fly together, eat together and have beer together in mixed crews with no problems. That said, the structure is gravely flawed and needs to be changed, probably in a manner that puts all of us on the same contract/representation/seniority list. Otherwise certain individual managers will continue to try to play us off against each other.

Again, IMO.

Hello All.
I am also interested in rostering, T and C, and pay at Atlas and Polar. I am at least a year or more away from the minimums only averaging 30h/mo lately so I won’t be getting an interview soon. I am just continuing my research as I want my next job to be at Atlas or Polar. Is it still true you can commute from anywhere in the world?

Thanks for all the help. :ok:

RSull

rsull:

The truth is…who knows? There is a new CEO, there is the DHL deal in the works, there is going to be a merger and arbitration of the Atlas/Polar contracts, there is the AABO/ALPA situation, and probably half a dozen other wild cards that I am just too tired to list.

I would advise against setting one’s sights on Atlas for the simple reason that things are too fluid. However watching from the sideline should be entertaining.

Guys, thank you very much for the insight! :ok:

Just to add a note...Guys that have moved over to Europe for the STN base have done very well. There are tax advantages, QOL when you live there is much better, and there are areas were the cost of living isn't bad. A few have settled in Nice, and loved it.

If your single, or just a couple, it could be a heck of an adventure.

I agree.

It's kind of ironic or a turn in events that management recently used the ALPA represented pilots as leverage against the AABO cadre with their new employment contracts. Management (Jim Cato and Richard Rolland) put forth - "either sign the new contracts (read pay/cond cuts) or management would have to find a new more economically feasable base other than STN like AMS in the EU. By-the-way, if the base moves - then all of the LOA's on STN protecting AABO are gone and you AABO guys must enter into the ALPA system seniority list and contract." They voted immediately to take the cuts rather than become junior FO's in the system seniority list/union that they had been used as a tool against since their invention save for about 5 votes from the Atlas cross overs which have protected seniority on the ALPA list.

That depends. Being that they will base you in STN, you won't get any help getting to work other than a matching amount of scheduled travel from base to the start of the trip. So you can live anywhere as long as your willing to get yourself there. Since you will be under the ALPA contract, the STN chief pilot will required you to do any reserve assignments in the STN area while the AABO guys can do it from their homes thorughtout the EU.

Can anybody post what is competitive for an interview?
Thanks

I received call on 04-17. Times are as follows.

Total:8000+
Pic:6000+
121 Jet Pic:4600+
Turbojet:5300+

Good Luck

Here is a copy/paste from another web board composed by a former Atlas guy. It says it all!!!!!



I recently left Atlas because the working conditions and quality of life sucked. I left within two years of being hired and so did all but 2 of the 14 hired in my class. Atlas is not hiring due to growth, they are hiring because of attrition.

Admittedly I was naive about Atlas when I accepted the interview and I foolishly believed the information I got from the person conducting the interview (MBSCP).

I was told to expect to be based in STN for 12 months max and that there were plenty of Atlas flights between the US and STN to get me to work. I was also told they would "work with me" in order to get me to my assignment. Also, I was told the most I’d be away from home was 17 days. None of that proved to be true.

In my opinion here are the problems with Atlas:

STN:

You will be based in STN which is about an hour train ride ($40 each way) or two hour bus ride ($30 each way) outside of London. Currently you need about 6 year’s seniority to hold a US base. Atlas does not operate any flights out of or into STN, yet it is a crew base that is growing (more displacements).

As a US passport holder, when clearing immigration and passport control in the UK, you will be asked why you are coming to the UK. If you tell them you are based in STN and are going to work, you will be detained (work permit? What work permit. My company didn’t tell me I needed one.) This happens pretty frequently until you figure out the “right” answers to the questions.

Being on reserve (standby as Atlas calls it) is an expensive proposition. I spent anywhere from $36 a night at a hostel (not very dignified for a mid-thirties, college educated professional airline pilot) to $150 a night at the Radisson STN while on standby. A few of my class mates quit early on because they were spending more on hotels than they were earning in salary.

Jumpseating back and forth to Europe is very difficult, especially in the summer when the loads are heavy. The European gate/ticket agents and passport control people are not very familiar with the whole concept of jumpseating. FedEx, UPS, and American do not allow Atlas pilots to jumpseat internationally. So you are somewhat limited on your choices. I mostly used United and they were fantastic (business class every time). Northwest’s policy is to put you in coach even if business class has open seats. Only once did the crew let me sit in business class. In addition you have to carefully choose your flights when leaving Europe. Even if there are multiple flights going to the US within a fairly close time period, you can’t just run from one gate to the next like you can domestically. You have to re-pay the departure tax at the ticket counter or transfer desk and then clear security and passport control. Also, Delta won’t take you unless you “check in” 90 minutes prior to scheduled departure time. MaxJet goes directly to STN so they are a pretty good option, unless they cancel.

When it comes time for your PC/PT recurrent training, don’t be surprised if you have to go to LHR instead of MIA. Since you are based in STN you have to get there on your own and pay for your hotel.

It’s not impossible, and many people do it, but the commute to STN is extremely stressful.

Schedules:

The schedules are not very marriage/family friendly. I averaged 22-23 days away from home. You owe the company 17 days a calendar month, but they are allowed to take four addition days every month to “protect the operation”. It happens all the time. My longest trip was 26 days. Also quite frequently trips get carried over into the following month. Once you are stuck in that “bidding cycle” it is difficult to get out. Atlas uses PBS for bidding monthly schedules and it seems there is very little transparency to the system. Having PBS and being junior blows.

Politics and Corporate Culture:

There are numerous factions within the pilot group: ALPA Atlas STN, Non-ALPA Atlas STN, AABO STN, GSS, Atlas JFK/ANC/LAX/MIA (with gateway travel), Polar and now DHL (ASTAR and ABX). It’s an absolute mess. Divide and conquer at its finest.

The culture of the training department was pretty surprising to me. I’ve been through enough training events in my career (6 transport category aircraft, 4 type ratings, no busts) to know. It was pretty disheartening to see guys “wash out” during initial training. What bothered me the most was the “pride” the training department seemed to take in the bust rate. There are a few really good guys in the training department, but unfortunately they are outnumbered.

Despite all of the above, I don’t regret my time at Atlas. I traveled the world (circled the globe on my first trip), I got typed in the 747-400, and experienced many cultures. But in the end the negatives outweighed the positives and so I quit…leaving an opportunity for the next sucker.

The above post hits the nail on the head. Well said. "MBSCP" is our chief pilot that sat across from us, on managements side of the table, during our first contract negotiations. He's had his job for a very long time, if that tells you anything.

So are all new hires into Atlas STN. Do they still hire pilots into Polar?

rsull, just for the sake of conversation, what are you flying at present?

I am currently flying Fokker 100 with 2700TT. I have a few other Jet T.R.s but they are all biz jets.

RSull

For the foreseeable future, no hiring at Polar.

Hiring at Polar is absolutely impossible, unless they plan on keeping the Polar and Atlas pilot groups separate. Any hiring at Atlas is for the pinal colony of STN. :D

Future Atlas pilots, you have to realize if your looking for a chance to fly what only 5% of the pilots ever see and do, where you fly every other day internationally overnighting in safe comfortable hotels in exciting citys....take a breath now...ah ah and be treated like scum which you are in managements sights, only to be on property for a short amount of time as your fate has been predetermined by the hedgefund owners of AAWW (76%). To be a employee of an american company overseas does not represent you in the "fair labor act". Discrimination exsists if you've been paying attension to these posts, those that have travel credit,,and you will not, those that start in their american base,, and you will never see one, those with gate way,,only a dream for those without and a grievance / lawsuit in the present because Schmattless has taxed that travel (home to base). Without the "fair labor act" and not haveing a licensed British work permit this leaves you like a lost soul only to reach out to the "railway labor act". If you have been reading ALPO has not much grasp on todays companys nor remotely protecting the rights of its rank n file. But you can count on paying 1.95% of your gross income to dues. You basically can grieve your pay issues, scheduling, travel credit, training issues but ALPO will give you the standard answer "we will have to fix that on the next contract"! The only place where seniority exsists at Atlas is "outbasing". The perennial thorn in union, if you only flew your line we would need more pilots, more captain slots.
:ugh: :} New hire do you see some thread of consistancy here. It is a diverse group of pilots but the largest of non cohesive union brotherhood exsists here at Atlas. The Polar pilot is the opposite and is an issue of contension that I personally doubt the BOD would allow the two pilot groups to share the cockpit together. Fights would break out. You can expect to share difficult scheduling issues like being extended your "4 days" and this will reach into another month and find yourself out for in excess of 30 days. Add this to a very difficult commute. Every time you talk to scheduling or Travel in regards to your ending of your trip you will feel like you have to "ask permission" and something in the form of graveling. Also you will find an attitude of majority of "mission oriented" Captain operation. This is a systemic problem that will reach into all areas of the operation. Maintenance, scheduling, loading. What eva it takes! Some people get caught up in the FAA's gun sites and break FAR's. It could be a simple duty time reg and overlooked because your feeling dog tired. This is by far the toughest type of flying you will ever put your body through. This is not the Legacy Carriers. This is Schmattless. A stepping stone, and surely to make any marriage or relationship enter into troubled waters.

I would agree, this is not remotely similar to Legacy Carrier Flying or commuter flying.

I've notice a large volume of crew members (victims of downsizing) that come from those carriers which don't stay very long usually. It's definetly not what their used to. I also agree that many of the Atlas crewmembers are easily intimidated by management. They have been beaten on for a long time and have the highest number of disciplinary actions against crewmembers amoung all of the ALPA carriers (per ALPA legal department stats).

Atlas has had a very long road getting unionized and contending with union busting constructs like STN, AACS(now AABO) and others to get what little decent treatment we currently enjoy. If you signup here, please be ready to fight and not be meek. We have too many of the latter and not enough of the former.

Someday, we may be able to brag about working here. As it is, I can't say that now.

mercpc9http://cptaudio.com/cgi-bin/hiring/logs.pl

merc,

The eye ball really freaks me out! Can you like, make it look away and stay still?

I used to have a very pretty girl dancing instead, but I guess that was politically incorrect.

On the subject of hiring, here is a streaming mp3 of the Atlas Union VARS covering hiring (30-50 new hires), STN and also a stab at the company for making remarks in managements weekly voice message to the slaves over a previous union message. I would put the company voice message up, but the company said they will fire anyone spreading company info. Gee, imagine that.

Atlas Union VARS in mp3 streaming format.

Like I said before. If you choose to sign up, be prepared for a fight that has been long going. If you hire on, we would like you to be on the union side of it.

Truly amazing is right. But whats make it even more amazing is that last year they reported record profits. I predict record 1Q 2007 profits as well, even paying Polaroids to sit at home?

The stock has been on quit a run. New 52 week high in the last week. Rated by Money magazine as one the of top ten stocks to own for the next ten years.

Atlas pilots ARE FORCED to work extra days, courtesy of the contract (both ALPA and AABO) which the company is taking advantage of.

ALPA pilots - work 17 days and up to 4 days extra if required by the company.

Since Atlas is so short-staffed, most pilots are being involutary extended those 4 days. Add on an extra day or 2 to commute to/from Europe if you live in the states and you have NO LIFE. If you are a STN F/O, you WILL be gone from the US about 22 days EACH and every month. They way you could possibly be scheduled it is possible to be out on the line over 42 days! 17 days+4 extra+17 days + 4 extra as you carry a line from one month into the next.

Since all new hires are STN based with NO travel benefits you will have to rely on the generousity of other carrriers to get you to and from Europe using the jumpseat. By the way, that generousity is wearing thin with a few carriers already. In the summer months the commute is EXTREMELY stressful since flights are full and you would face disciplinary action for not making it to work on time (usually FRA, AMS, GOT, or London).

If for some reason you can't make it to work, the company's answer is:
1) You knew about the commute when you agreed to work here.
2) Well, I guess you have to buy a ticket. $$$$$$
3) You should have left a day earlier so standy for disciplinary action.

As a new hire, you are a probationary ALPA member. You don't pay dues but the union can't protect you. The company can and WILL fire you without hesitation.

Don't excpect to get based in the US (get gateway travel) anytime soon. There are SOME 2001 hire pilots displaced in STN. ALL 2004 and 2005 hire pilots on the -400 are STUCK in STN. About half the 2005 -200 pilots have gotten back to the US. The rest have quit.

THAT is why within the first year over 50% of the pilots hired quit. By the second year I would say 75% are gone. After that most pilots seem to hang around. That is until UPS or FEDEX calls. Some Captains go to KAL or ANA under contract. Most Captains are staying put as they would take too much of a paycut to start over.

WHEN the contract bewteen Polar and Atlas is finally merged, the Polar pilots that choose to return will obviously return senior to the new hires. Again, more stagnation. Right now Polar pilots can ONLY return if the company adds more Polar flying (and to the Polar operation which is SEPERATE). When the combined CBA is agreed upon the company will fly both fleets as one and the pilots will be combined as per an already complete arbitration. That is why UNTIL then the company is forced to hire off the street.

I don't even want to talk about the training process.

Hope this clarifies a few things.

Giant On A Roll
 

WhaleDriver is right, Q1 profits will be through the roof, and I expect another profitable year for Atlas! The stock opened today at just under $60 a share, investors like where the company is going!!!
Even with the Polaroids sitting at home, we're still making money:D
http://www.smartmoney.com/cover/inde...ay2007&pgnum=2

I wonder what the Polar side of the finances looks like with all that back pay and paying 100+ pilots to sit at home... The Atlas side must be making even huger profits to compensate!

You have to remember, Polar is making a lot of money also, mainly through the China routes that they own.
There is some movment on the classic side with Polar. One plane has come back and will be flying the Bejing, Shanghai, Seoul route. I talked to one of the Captains in the sim now and he doesn't know where things are going over but there are guesses that 3 or 4 classics mauy come back. I hope they don't bring anymore back, then I may have to resign and lose this gravy train. But with managments hands tied on paying us, they may have no choice.

mercpc,

Stuped question I know but...where can I get an eyeball like that? Really cool.

Ganbare

Good idea, the eyeball is great; I would like one too!

Have you tried Right-Click, "Save Image as..."?

I hope their making ALOT out of PVG. Loads out of PEK are less that a DC-8 could carry, and empty going in. The loads for the last month have been around 15K Kg (33K Lbs). Empty going into PVG as well. I think AAWW is counting on future growth, not present.

Effective 1 May '07, no more PO call signs on the Atlas schedule. Gravy train is at the end of the line?

Back to the thread....the Atlas MEC is in serious talks to address the STN issues. I would not sign up until there is agreement in writing. The latest is more hiring this summer.

My last trip at Atlas had me away from home for a whopping 38 days! Commuting (Hitchhiking the North Atlantic) was nothing short of hell over the busy summer months. Absolutely no support at all from the company. All this and then you fly with others who enjoyed Business Class travel to their aircraft. Yep..same airline, same union. You have the "have and have not club" If you are new..welcome to the have not portion. Even on a good month and you find yourself out 17 days. Plan on 2 getting to work and 2 going back. 2 days to recover after the trip home. 2 days of rest then the worry starts wondering how the hell your going to get to Gothenburg, Sweden to start your next trip! (Hint..there is no easy way) I know there is banter about the STN situation going away. Well it never did over the past 2 years I was there and Id bet it want go away anytime soon. Why would management have it any other way when they save 3 to 4K a pop on travel expenses everytime a new hire bums a free ride. Enough said

Mike is absolutely correct. If you want or can live in central Europe or Great Britain then apply. The curent travel allowance scheme can cover most if not all of your costs and commuting is easy since most STN -400 and -200 trips start in FRA, AMS, PIK. GOT (Sweden) can be tricky to get to/from if patterned thru there. If you want to live in the US then commuting can be very difficult. If you live west of Chicago or the Mississippi river then forget it.

I see no incentive for the company to change the STN base and travel as they now have about 60 pilots jumpseating to Europe from the USA instead of having to pay for and schedule business class tickets to start or end a trip. The company saves a ton of money on this ALONE. As long as pilots keep showing up for work on time there is no reason for the company to change.....no matter how tough it is for these commuters.

:} Boy O Boy do these posts bring back the nightmare! Trying to get a jump seat on a busy Summer night to Europe. If you got bumped there were few places to run to since most North Atlantic flights launch at the same time. Very little wiggle room. Can not commute? Do not expect any support from the company. Scheduling will tell say you should have bought a ticket. (Check out the prices on the Internet, Goodbye one months pay) Expect to get docked pay or out and out get fired. And the old 17 days on, 7 off then another 17 days on schedule. Just when you are ready to scramble home for the 7, they take three of the days keeping you flying. Involuntary assigned. (Who needs a life) The commute home for the remaining 4 days has now become impossible. Now your stuck in Europe for those 4 days on your on dime. If you are lucky you might find a room for $120 per night. Remember the US Dollar is very weak at the moment. Oh yes, in reference to the above post. "The Have/Have Not Club" My fondest memory was landing in Frankfurt one night and it being to late to commute home. Three of us checked into the same hotel. The Captain's "Have Club Membership" got him a room for the night and a Business Class ticket home the next day. The other F/O's "Have Club Membership" afforded him a travel credit in which he had a room and a ticket home as well. And there stood lowly me, proud member of "The Have Not Club" My Visa card in hand to pay for my room. And hoping beyond hope that I could get a jump seat West to the US the next morning on an oversold flight. As stated above, 3 Pilots, same airline, same union on three different programs. If you are single, move to Europe and go for it. If you are married and its on shaky ground go ahead and get divorced if you choose this job. If you have growing kids at home, find another line of work, watch them grow up. They will be gone before you know it. As of last month there is no one remaining from my new hire class. Everyone reached their breaking point at different times. I wish I had better things to say but if you are at the bottom at this airline it is a horrible place to work. Good luck.:ugh:

Horrible Place to Work
 

I think the Company did not chain you to take the job N1N2, To my perspective you were out of work desperate, needed a pay check, cashed all the checks, used propably a good medical plan, and you were not a Happy Camper to Be in the cockpit with. We all make joices if the job works for you fine , otherwise we should move on. Look at all the so called legacy carriers lots of A,B,C and who knows what other pay scale.:)