N1N2:

While I don’t want to minimize the issues with the STN base structure, your example would apply in any situation where three pilots with different domiciles end their trip in or near one of the domiciles.

In reality, when one cuts through the tangle of gateway/STN travel credits, what Atlas has is a European base and a United States Base with an ANC satellite. If you live in one of the those three locations AND are “based” there things work out OK. However if you are trying to commute, which in most cases means from the continental U.S. to Europe, It is miserable.

I gladly came to Atlas. No, I was not desperately unemployed. No, I was not on the Atlas medical plan. I remained on my Wife's. And no..I was not miserable to work with. The crews I flew with were outstanding and flying the 747 worldwide was a chance of a lifetime. I was honored and will forever be grateful for being given that opportunity. I will always have fond memories of my time here. If you were to interview everyone who has left recently one common theme will emerge. The company was a tad disingenuous about this whole STN situation. I will spare the rant because any Atlas pilot knows all the stories. It is my hope the company tells the new guys and girls the hardcore reality of this STN base and all that is involved. (They want I'm sure) I by no means meant this as a personal attack on the Atlas Pilot group. It is however anger directed directly at management. Bottom line, if your based stateside, gateway travel, etc. It's a great place to lay your hat. :)

It seems that the big problem with new pilots is the commute to Europe from the US. If a new hire was to live at STN would that solve the problems. Are Atlas pilots allowed to live in the UK or do they enter on short stay business visas or something similar. Does the company arrange the right to live and work in the UK???

Thanks
RSull

how many credit hours can you expect at stn as a 1st yr fo, 2nd, 3rd, 4th...?

So does Atlas support you with visas and so on for England if you want to live at STN????

rsull & all:

Sit tight for a week or two as it appears that some changes might be in the works.

Here is an update. It appears our union efforts have finally closed the gap somewhat on the STN union busting base. This is subject to membership ratification, but I wouldn't expect a problem with that since it doesn't come out of any of the senior guys pockets.

Now, if we can only get the affected to recognize what the union efforts did for them despite the many hiring into a known condition in STN versus the number that suffered (furloughed, resigned, and displaced) at the hands of management and the STN base construct. I doubt it.

Message in MP3 Streaming Audio

And for those that didn't get the Atlas contract from before:

In PDF format

The T/A to follow.

mercpc9 http://cptaudio.com/cgi-bin/hiring/logs.pl

STN update
 

Thanks for the update. The crew members who are affected suffered hardships, and is good news to those folks who can soon exercise their date of hire, not some ghost senority system. The travel will eventually solve a lot of problems. Kudos to the Atlas MGT. for going forward to embrassing a new horizon!:) :) :) :) :)

U.S. Freight Airlines
 

Can anyone advise if U.S. freight operators employ non national Flight Engineers ie. professional flight engineer not a pilot in the 3rd seat.

NonU.S. national F/Es
 

T H Eng
Following a conversation with some US colleagues - it depends how cheap you are. Hence why so many sideways riders are 'Second Officers' Not interested being an Engineer but, only looking for an upgrade to the front seats - preferably the left one.

What are the latest STN LOA nuts and bolts? This management will not give up anything for nothing. Exactly what does gateway mean? After all some of the gateway issues ended up in court which I heard was lost and now in the appeal yet to be determine. I think it was something like you have to include "imputed income" into your W-2. As far as a Ticket to EU to meet the a/c it could be quite costly when you consider the flexibility that is needed with AAWW. Have to purchase basically a few days before travel and coming home forget it, scheduling here is ever changing and you cannot plan on your return accurately. No sympathy on either ALPA or scheduling. I'm suspect this is not such a good thing. If you were given the opportunity to be provided a ticket and then have to claim imputed income but deny the ticket and Jump seat then this could be the beginning of a jump seat debacle and end to our js benefit. Many problems exist here at AAWW, and just think they have been highlighted as one of the top 10 stocks to own for the next 10 years, all this with Polar pilots being paid to sit at home while the non sched portion fly's overtime. It must be a very profitable company on the backs of the employees.

Others will have better info on the details of the LOA. However to clarify, the taxation issue only comes up if you are going to or from your base. Since it is doubtful that the company would send a pilot to or from STN (where there is no flying) no imputed income should occur.

Or to put it another way, as long as the company travels a pilot to start an actual trip (AMS, GOT, FRA etc.) there should be no tax issues.

Stn Loa ?
 

Is the STN LOA finished?

If so, could someone please post it here, or post a link to it?

Thanks for the info!

LabDad,s request
 

Lab, it probably would not be a good idea for the Atlas pilot group or anyone for that matter, to publish on an open forum an unfinished document (finished meaning all signitures required). Intel says that this is a personal peace offering from senior management and it does require a level of privacy, less the offer be withdrawn. My two cents worth.

Cheers.

Thanks for letting me know the agreement is still pending.

Voting closes on the 18th. I`ll let you know how it goes!;)

Thanks in advance!:)

The STN Gateway Travel LOA passed by a 73% margin. I'll post a copy of it after it's signing.

Hopefully this will provide some much needed relief for those displaced to STN and those hiring into into it.

Here is the copy of the STN Gateway travel LOA. Takes effect June 1, 2007. The company came out with a signed letter of intent on some of the more sloppy sections of language. I've run out of space on my server so I won't include it.

LOA here in PDF

and the associated map here in PDF

If your hiring on, expect STN and take a look at the contract posted earlier in this thread. That is what your going to have to live by. Despite the people interviewing you saying that they have integrity, don't believe them. They have been notorious at saying one thing while intentionally doing something completely contrary to get the meat into the seat.

second hand intel says the interview rate going quite poorly.

Not like ' the old days ' when word of mouth takes time to get out. Internet speed equals good pre interview intel about the dirt bags of the industry.

Looks like the 2nd hand intel is not correct. The application window is closed for now.

Furloughed
 

hAVE YOU ever looked at you'r own back yard! I am sure the folks at Atlas really appreaciate you trashing their hard work and commitmend to provide sustainable employement to people around the world. Not just completely of the wall disgruntled Pilots!!!!!!!!! :):)

What happens to crewmembers on reserve that isn't resident reserve? Does the company now provide them gateway rights and hotels in STN for reserve sits?

They do pay for it. Unfortunately, one of the things they have been doing is taxing it as a fringe benefit under certain conditions while at your base. A lawsuit has been filed on it. So you get hit with whatever your income tax rate is on what they spend during your STN reserve. Still cheaper than out of your pocket. I don't see a reason for them doing it often though. There are no Atlas flights going through STN and getting commercials out to someplace useful is not the quickest thing to do. That and they are spending their money now vs yours.

mercpc9 http://cptaudio.com/cgi-bin/hiring/logs.pl

Looks like the 2nd hand intel is not correct. The application window is closed for now.

I was addressing the acceptance rates to interview and/ or showing up for Indoc.

Well said merc, well said!

Merc,

While I'm not a lawyer, it seems that Mr. Clark is merely spouting the company line. By all reasons, it would be expected as he is a member of the management team.

However, in the 2006 annual report, they company reported that the merger may not happen. They also state that it's up to the pilots if the merger should occur. Obviously this is in complete contradiction to what they are spouting to the pilots. Please take the time to review that, and don't take my word for it. (Page 21 of the .pdf if you want to read it)

Also, Mr Clark's worries about a Polar -400 going down are quite unfounded. How about finding expansion aircraft for Polar? Surely the marketing gurus in Purchase can find work for it in the world. According to their analysis, the -400 market is picking up, while the -200 market is declining. They want to replace the -200s with the -8s for more business. They also indicate that the -8 will be even more profitable thatn the -400. Imagine how prosperous both Atlas and Polar could be if both airlines grow!! More work for everybody...that's great business if you're a pilot.

The seasonal demands, again, could be solved via a well written scope clause should the lists remain separate. Obviously, there would be far more legalese, but it should encompass the following:
1) Define the peak season, and allow ACMI lift
2) Designate Atlas as the sole provider for ACMI lift for PO; or first right of refusal
3) Designate PO as the first right of refusal to provide additonal lift for 5Y with non-DHL designated aircraft.
4) Inability for AAWH to move aircraft between AAWH entities to circumvent CBA's.
5) Should an aircraft be moved, crew will not be furloughed.

This would allow both companies to benefit.

Hopefully, everyone agrees that should a merger not occur, the MEC's should work closely together to increase job security for ALL crewmembers. As we have all witnessed in the PAX world, a CBA isn't even useful as toilet paper if there are no jobs to go with it.

It's all academic. At the end of the day, protect my job and show me the money.

You make some valid points. Unfortunately, they are selective on who benefits when it's a good thing. Very reminiscent of what Polar's legal council says to Polar's benefit. I have heard of Mr. Katz, of the Polar legal council, saying the exact same thing. Of course, he is paid to come up with that.

Polar chooses to believe the company when they are the surviving carrier and not to when they are not, as is the case now. The company under the RLA gets to drive most of that unfortunately and not labor. That short and selective memory coming into play again by the Polar MEC. I hope the Polar membership doesn't fall into that.

Which also reinforces what you said:

Say and do anything at the end of the day. A tried and true practice on one side of the equation. Actually on two sides of this three way argument battle. I'll leave that to popular discussion.

This leads to the recent VARS by Bobb Henderson (Polar MEC Chairman of the Captains represented only Airline) saying the Atlas MEC are liars in his VARS 09/23/2007 Polar message. I have retained it for later record. Bobb (two b's) stated that the Atlas MEC had promulgated lies in favor of the company over the recent findings of the court rather than for the Polar union recently. In a 09/28/07 company response by Jim Cato (I hate quoting him, but he has a valid point on the timing and what the court said) the company confirmed that Bobb Henderson and the company both new of the outcome several days before Bobb Henderson's message calling the Atlas MEC liars on Sept 23. The verbal announcement to the parties of the decision with the written judgment to follow. Well, Bobb H. will say and do anything obviously. A lot of character there, which reflects his actions past and future. If your happy with it on the Polar side, then that says a lot also or confirms past actions.

Anyway, here is what I have on it in copy. Written up on at least the 20th and sent on the 26th. I can't attest to the verbal side dating of notification, which was prior to the 20th, but that is always followed by the paperwork in these cases.

Order Compelling Arbitration

Mr. Moderator

Mercpc9 is desperately trying to drag this forum into a Polar v Atlas battle again. The only reason I am here is to offer truth where he lies. Please shut this down, or leave it to the finish with an appropriate thread title and we can do this thing again.

Merc

You should enter your Section 6 negotiations ASAP. The Atlas crewmembers are being cheated and used by their leadership, and know it. The Polar "boogeyman" thing is not working anymore. Please don't act like Cato turns your stomach...he forwards court documents with his take on things, your leadership forwards them to you, you post and parrot their flawed thinking. You spout the Company venom as if this will change anything...silly. You work for liars who are working for liars...it is a house of cards. You have a great day, sweetpea.

Where are all the FOs at Polar?
 

Now that's pretty typical. You don't like to hear the truth so you ask the mods to shut down the thread. I too am curious where all of your F/Os have gone. I heard (rumor of course, but this IS after all a rumor board) that Robin (the real person in charge of the MEC) has said that none of the F/Os can be trusted. Thus all of the F/Os have been removed from committees - Even your Vice Chair and FO status rep has not been seen at a meeting in almost 8 months. It is a shame that Robin didn't get hired by United and that he got so upset when Atlas bought Polar. We could have been great. Typical of pilots everywhere. Greatness is ruined by one person - or a few people.

You can have an Atlas v. Polar (ok P v. A if some prefer) fight if you like. I don't mind at all. Only thing that makes it difficult for the participants is respecting the rules. No blatant rudeness, no personal attacks (in other words, attack the argument by all means but do not attack the person).
I'll just say from a personal point of view that the last thing you guys need is a fight. But, up to you.
As for closing this thread: not merited (for now).
;)

P v A it is...

cptvac is right. Atlas MEC should start Section 6 negotiations right away. We(Polar) are.

Oh,, and one other thing. Tell Bourne to "step up to the plate" and at least act like he's in charge and not blame the Polar guys for your next crappy contract(which is what your next contract will be). Got old really quick here at Polar.

Thanks guys,,, and good luck with your negotiations.

Polar SEction Six??
 

Who are you negotiating with? Yourselves? Are you negotiating for practice? There will be no section six negotiations with the company for either group alone (unless of course there is no more Polar).

And I still want to know where all of your FO's are? Is your council now a Captain only union?

Yes. Just Captains. No one else allowed. Dirty secret is out. Disturbing isn't it?

Wow,

I put up some third party facts from the court and step away for a day. Look what happens. Would put up the recordings of Bobb's messages (Polar), Dave Bourne's (Atlas) and Cato's also so you can compare, but that is a little too time consuming. If they have not been wiped yet, you can get Polars at 800-253-5671 for the last three, Atlas at 800-253-5642 for the last three, and I can't put Cato's message up because it's proprietary. You have to be an employee to hear it via their system. But his verifies what ALPA National and what Bourne says.

I can't help it that Bobb Henderson ( more likely Robin Hair through Bobb ) are caught lying again to his membership and treats them like mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed cr@!!!). They have done the same with the ALPA executive board thinking the facts wouldn't follow.

This is just a recent example. I can see why so many of the Polar group end up communicating to me for info. They seem to think they can't get the strait stuff from their own. It sounds like they don't get anything from their own council. BTW - the court order didn't come from Cato. You forgot that ALPA national is named on it also. Not just Polar.

As to Section 6 on the Atlas side. We have been prepared for that. Prepared for both merger or section 6 negotiations. We prefer merger negotiations since that will prevent the inevitable moving of aircraft back and forth between Atlas and Polar resulting in furloughs that were demonstrated on the Atlas and Polars sides during Sect. 6 negotiations of the past.

Have we forgotten the separate Sect. 6 negotiations of the past with Atlas and Polar? Do we really need a replay of those days?

Is it that on the Polar side, only the captains count and not the F/O's that would see the brunt of those replayed games matter? Is it Bobb Henderson trying to keep his 100 guaranteed pay hours a month as a MEC officer for sitting down on his house boat in the Bahamas running his bikini business the reason for wanting separate section 6 instead of a merger?

Bobb was gangbusters for merger until after the seniority arbitration award. Which Polar mostly won. What has he told you on that?

Look at your post merc.

The entire post is about Polar's business. MEC communications, "captains only count"(whatever that means), even so far as to comment on the chairmans residence and pay. What goes on over here on the Polar side is really none of your business. In fact,, you need to concentrate on the goings on in your own MEC.

Again,,, good luck in your section 6 neg.

Section 6
 

101,

And how are your section six negotiations going? Doesn't there need to be two parties to negotiate?

Of course this all matters to us. You still have two of our airplanes. We are just trying to plan for when they will be coming back - along with all the PA -400s.

And you probably will not believe this but since your MEC thinks that all Polar FOs are disloyal, and has locked them out of the loop, they have been calling their Atlas friends as well as our MEC for information and advice.

It is a darned shame - we could have been so good together. And really ONE angry man has caused so much hate and discontent. Of course he now has his followers who are "sucking" others into their Vacuum. :rolleyes:

I was at the employee exchange the day that Jeff Erickson announced that "of course we were all going to be Atlas pilots." The look on Robin and Mark's faces (who were also there), told me all I needed to know about what we were all in for.

too bad

Whaledriver101


Actually,

Your MEC's actions are affecting about 600 union paying members on the Atlas side of the equation. Polar's constant "IN" , then "MAYBE" and then "OUT" of the merger is not only screwing with your membership but also the Atlas membership. In the constant limbo of Merger "Maybe" or Section 6 "Maybe".

It was obvious Bobb (and Robin) were happy when you thought you were going to be the "surviving carrier". We couldn't merge quick enough. The seniority arbitration seemed to null that quickly. Despite Polar winning the majority of it, you didn't get the bump and flush to get rid of as many Atlas crewmembers as you could. Then the Bobb and Robin show tried getting that via the merger protocols with "follow the flying". The arbitrator pretty much summed that up as "tuff luck boy's, my rulings are binding" and ALPA National even recognized it. All of a sudden, Polar doesn't want to merge any more.

Anyhow, here are about 1500 pages of that arbitration we got on the Atlas side. I'm looking for the arbitors final award copy, but I can't find it at the moment. Think it's on my other computer. 2MB download takes some time:

Atlas Polar senioirty arbitration transcripts in TXT format Right Click and Save AS

As to "It's none of your business!" You are absolutely right, up until all of those Polar MEC actions (and Robin H) of continual lying, deceit, personal interest self protection, knuckle dragging, intentionally misleading the Polar membership and anyone else that will listen affects my fellow crewmembers and I. Outside of that, I wouldn't give a flip.

Judging from the number of those contacting me for more info, I've been thinking of starting a website to allow downloads of published info on the merger to inform the Polar membership with the released documents since it is obvious that they are not given anything of the whole truth by their MEC. Drop me a PM to count as a vote for it.

merc