Oh come on now nitty! For years now you and your minions have touted the fact that ALPA national had about had it with the Polar MEC and how Bourne et al. was in their good graces. Now you say they're smoking Bobb's pipe? Outside of being a disgusting statement that should require an apology to Henderson, Hair, and the entire ALPA management, it flies in the face of all that has been written in this, and other forums.
It is obvious to me that your council has some serious explaining to your union on why they cannot seem to give what they promised. Blaming it on others will not fix anything since you figure nothing is wrong. Well, obviously it is. Assuming you're successful in moving to the Teamsters, what you would do when the first decision came down against you? Where would you run to next?
Believe it nor not, I would like to see a merger. I really would although it might not mean a return to of displaced crew members, on either side of the aisle. If the Polar side is demanding that their scope clause is honored and it is not then they have a gripe. However, if the Atlas side is right, they have a gripe. The bottom line is that not everyone is going to get every job back (that is the issue isn't it) and the sooner everyone steps back and takes a deep breath nothing will get resolved. The enemy here is the company, not the unions.
Here is a novel idea. Have everyone study each others scope clause. A little knowledge on where the other side stands can only benefit everyone. Gleaning from your previous posts, ALPA has cut off your fundings. Could it be that they felt the money would be better spent on what they consider the winning side. Remember, they are stewards of a lot of money from a lot of councils, not just yours and Polars. They have to assess how to use it wisely.
It isn't the best way to put it but let's hope that both sides win and AAWH loses.

This is about a favorable outcome for Bourne and his inner circle, as engineered by Cato to end Polar. Period.

Honorable representation of his crewmembers is not on Bournes list of To Do items. Look for the following:

1...HARD press for Teamster representation (w/ Cato support).

2...Move for Single Carrier (w/ Cato support).

3...Subsequent vote to pull Polar from ALPA (w/Cato support).

4...Bourne installed at Teamster National.

5...Caputo/Alves/Allen Atlas Teamster positions.

6...Continuous blame of ALPA and Polar for concessionary contract from all of the above (and WhaleFr8) rings suddenly hollow with Atlas membership-

AND THE REGRET AND DISAPPOINTMENT WILL CONTINUE...

At least Dave will still be eating in the same expensive DC restaurants on the membership dime.

Are you really THAT naive. ALPA is ONLY concerned with NWA. NWA currently has the DHL flying and If ALPA can drive a wedge or prolong this merger then Bobbrobin are playing right into their hands. It is more flying, longer for NWA. Helling, the EA at ALPA that is the driving force behind this is a NWA. Like you say you must be educated. Most Polar pilots that post on here are merely parroting what Bobbrobin tell them too. They have not read the Polar Scope clause. Just like you, you have not taken the time to investigate the politics behind all of this. Check it out. Prater and Helling do not care about cargo companies. They care about legacy carrier JOBS. They have an agenda to prolong this merger.... and it doesn't include either Polar or Atlas.

Mark - time to step away from the crack pipe.

Just like you were(or are) a Daveputo voice piece for Atlas pilots. Just the McHolman show there now ! Ha

Atleast you make us all laugh

Lets see, US Air council 41 gets pulled and a trustee replaces them by ALPA order. Charges brought by Atlas MEC for the same things USAir council 41 did which are mirrored by Polar's MEC. ALPA now says that they can do anything they want if they are Polar in about a 180 degree turn from the council 41 decision of replacement by trustee. Gee, do you think that was politically generated?

Polar and the @170 member council recieves over twice (@ $900,000) and gets an outside attorney for their grievances which are filed to take flying and A/C from Atlas. Versus the funding of Atlas @700 member council gets which is less than half that of Polars. BTW Atlas funding was cut again just this week at Atlas and only regular staff attorneys that say everything costs to much to represent grievances. Even now ALPA is refusing to pay already agreed upon costs we spent on Polar's strike of about 1/4 mil. in expenses. You know, the one we went on in sympathy for Polar. The first sympathy strike in ALPA history cargo carrier to cargo carrier. The agreed upon amount by both sides (National and Atlas), but that was under a different more honorable President.

Since Atlas was not supporting the current president during his election, Atlas has suffered at Polar's gain at ALPA. You gotta love politics. It has so little to do with what is right.

It is pretty obvious. Since the change out in Presidents, Polar has been getting favored. That's not to say they were not taken care before that.

With the Teamsters, we have support. About 1.4 million that won't let the freight on the A/C let alone fly it. With ALPA, we have a sister airline more than willing to fly our A/C or cargo anywhere as proven in the past during our count-down to strike so many years ago. In as much asking for asking for relief to fly the struck work and A/C ahead of time. I won't even get into the flying and A/C they acquired during our negotiations prior to that they now claim as their own forever and always.

I don't even want to go into how NWA and Exective Administrator Helling (NWA) entering this covering themselves in this over the DHL flying. I'm sure they are covering themselves in this already. Just by his current actions.

What is the Atlas membership left with? We certainly can't count on ALPA or Polar to do the right thing. Let alone hold up to their promises.

Polar has a sister airline that does fly all the Polar cargo. Atlas has none of their own cargo. Just what they steal from Polar thru Cato.....

So your saying that Polar never flew Atlas A/C and routes prior to the Atlas strike countdown? Then later requested relief to fly even more Atlas A/C and routes prior to the strike release.

Kind of like "which came first the egg or the chicken." Doesn't really matter. Polar did it first hoping to keep the flying with their scope clause. Didn't work out that way in the end. Polar then yelled that Atlas were scabs if they didn't give it back plus all of the remaining flying when it was Polar's turn at negotiations and strike. ALPA National said BS to it when you called us scabs after we held a sympathy strike for Polar. Then here we are.

You need to sit back and think just what Polar did to help. I think it was "we'll monitor the loads from Purchase". Followed by a "we want relief from the struck work rules" about 20 minutes prior to the release for Atlas.

With friends like Polar and inaction by ALPA National, I can see why we are going Teamsters.

I don't expect an intelligent answer from you, looking at your previous posts. Just putting it out there for those at Polar that think for themselves.

Teamster
 

I'll send in the Teamster card only with an assurance of new union leadership. Like you said, it's time for a change.

I don't think you understand the grievance process there nitty. Just because you file a grievance doesn't mean that ALPA has to pay for the representation. When I worked grievance, there were times when we felt that the grievance was not valid. We informed the crew member that we would file the grievance and support it but he would have to provide his own attorney costs. An average cost was about $5000 per grievance. If he won, then he got the money reimbursed. Have you thought that maybe ALPA is having reservations over these ongoing grievances that you file that you always seem to lose?
I have a question. If you do go to the Teamsters; Is your present contract kept in force until a new one is negotiated (usually talking several years); what is your support percentage; how long will this process take place and finally; if and when a merger is completed, has anyone thought of how the representation will be handed between the two competing unions?
I do have one more question; has anyone in your union looked at what, if anything, your present council would benefit with any merger. I would hate to see a lot of good people get hoodwinked and jump off a cliff for some self-serving act of a few.

Very good joking response from you, nitty. You accused Polar of almost flying Atlas A/C. But Atlas really does fly Polar Freight and Contracts. GET OVER YOURSELF ! Good luck with the Hoffa Group .....

I'll say just that. There was no Atlas/Polar connection other than we shared the same ALPA attorney back then. We met with your council in Everett Barber's offices and fully supported you then. When Fell put out that ill advised letter, we furiously jumped on it and had it voided within two days. We floated a recall petition against Fell for the letter. There are some, I believe, that use selective data to advance their causes or cover their missteps. Look at all the facts. You should have struck!!!

Actually you were already flying 5 A/C and routes at the cost of @170 crewmembers prior to the Atlas strike countdown. You know, back when Polar was saying they were saving both companies instead of the Negotiating tactic that it was to make Atlas crews bend (the saving by Polar part was dispelled later during the bankruptcy filing). Then Polar requested relief from struck work rules minutes prior to the strike release. Gee, kind of a shame no one told the Atlas side how you chased down Fell and corrected that before his famous 20 minute call to us prior to the strike. Thanks for that help there guys.

Trash-

The current contract would be in force. It's at http://atlasforteamsters.com for a lot of the answers. Let alone under the NMB and RLA rules if you want to download that and go through it. I would suggest doing so as an independent check. More than likely, we will be considered under single carrier status such as the AWA-USAir situation I put up for download a page back in pdf.

As far as time lines, it would probably be quicker than the current merger - no merger BS PID fiasco at ALPA that is serving just a few and holding up any contract negotiations merged or not on either the Atlas or Polar side.

Question
 

If Polar wins its no merger arbitration, what would that do to the Atlas/Teamster single carrier status plan?

THANKS

I don't know myself. My answering would only be conjecture. Good question to ask though. They have an email address for questions at the site under Q's and A's. Judging from the responses I got so far and how long it took, they are probably funneling some of the hard questions through a lawyer. They seem to be posting a number of them over there.

Joetommy

You hit upon a great idea...it would be very telling if ALL of the Atlas leadership would resign and assure its members that they will hold no place at your new union. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.

Bourne (and Cato) have been hatching this plan for over a year. ALPA has been aware (as has Polar) and is remiss in not dealing with it. Central to the effort is the same cast of characters retaining their lifestyle. Their backdoor tactics have fallen flat at ALPA...they continue to work this Teamster angle hard with Cato and demonize the "uncooperative" Polar folks.

Big sales point will be negating the Merged Seniority List...

I sincerely hope that all of the Atlas crewmembers ask hard and thoughtful questions before going down the Teamster road and rewarding Bourne and Cato. They have been footing the bill for the benefit of a handful of political hacks long enough. In their hearts, they know its true.

You guys are so worried about the strike, this single carrier plan is about 10x worse in regards to union busting than anything in the past. For a union to work with a company to bust another union is incredible. I do not know how any pilot can feel that they are getting a fair representation if there is collusion between the company and union. Don't get me wrong, I understand that a union and company need to work together for a common goal, however, this is too much. I would hate to face the industry to explain this one, you may think jumpseating now can be uncomfortable, just wait. I hope that this is just a rumor, please someone deny it.

By the way, doesn't someone out there think its foolish to blame pilots for the routes they fly. I somewhat understand the argument that people feel that their are backroom deals going on but for the most part it is really out of anyones control. I hate that pilots are getting screwed out of career progression, however, does anyone across the aisle have anything to do with that? Maybe so, I would like to hear the argument on what should be done. Refuse the work? I haven't seen anyone do that.

Also, while I got the floor and before I get hammered, How come there is no clear discussion on why it is in Polar's and Atlas's best interest not to merge? How merging would be a detriment to both airlines overall. Or I tell you what, what is the benefit of merging when there is no clear scope protection in place? I'm sorry but it seems that the Atlas pilots do not have the same priority on scope and seniority as the Polar guys. I believe their are 3 different senority lists at Atlas being; Atlas pilots, FE's, and Stanstead. If there are more let me know? As far as scope, the whole Standstead affair should of never happened. Also, watch your back on this company out of Ireland, just another avenue to outsource.

Look, overall, I think everone should be working together towards something. Discussing the strike and Fell over and over does nothing. Maybe, we should be discussing all the altercations that seem to be happening between the two groups and how to stop it. When it comes to an airplane diverting because of a disagreement at 35,000 feet, we all will be sorry and embarrassed.

Back to the Springer show.....

I would be scared of the Teamsters also Mark if I were you. Your MEC Chairman Henderson calling ABX crews scabs has been looked upon rather poorly by them. Seems like anyone that doesn't believe the same as Henderson is a scab in your camp. At least Astar got rid of the MEC chairman that buddied up with your Henderson that towed the same line and rhetoric.

Your comments and opinion probably just reinforce Atlas going to Teamsters considering how well you have worked with Atlas crews in the past. If you don't like it, then it must be good for Atlas crews.

Any Atlas crewmember that knows Dave Bourne and John Caputo, know that their agenda is Dave Bourne and John Caputo. Blaming Polar for their failures and "Working Together" with a management that can't even abide by the Atlas CBA, weak as it is, has got to be wearing thin with any thinking Atlas crewmember...

The immediate goal of just demonizing and getting rid of Polar (with a little help from Cato) hasn't worked out. Bourne/Caputos self-serving behavior has had NOTHING to do with representing the interests of Atlas crewmembers or labor in general.

Simplistic accusations and revisionist history are not going to be enough when Atlas crewmembers start asking the tough questions. Thats when the closed door meetings and promises of Daves "special" relationships at the Teamsters will start. It will be interesting to see how much faith the group will place in more of this backdoor nonsense.

It Sure Fits
 

CAPT "VACuous"
Definition:
Pronunciation:
\ˈva-kyə-wəs\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin vacuus
Date: circa 1660
1 : emptied of or lacking content
2 : marked by lack of ideas or intelligence : stupid, inane <a vacuous mind> <a vacuous movie>
3 : devoid of serious occupation : idle

I always laugh when I see your posts as they always follow the above definition!

Sorry, Couldn't resist the Vacuous poke; enough Fun, Move On!
 

Bourne ,Caputo and Low are about self sacrifice. They answer the phone 24/7 and go to bat. If you watched the video, Dave is taking an LOA which means a loss of longevity; that is going to bat. If we go to a different union and they get elected they'll be going back to the line if we want them to. Read the Dave Allen letter to Polar crewmembers regarding how we feel about blame. It's over, move on!

The only truth in your whole diatribe is the fact that we have a weak CBA. That's why we want a new one and have done since the last one reached it's expiration. We want to move on!

Getting rid of Polar is a ludicrous statement to accuse our MEC of. We put our jobs on the line to support you and your strike. That's over with, with absolutely no thanks, but let's move on!

Accusations of working with Cato to demonize and get rid of Polar are absolutely straight out of cloud cuckoo land. Please back that up or move on!

Atlas crewmembers are asking tough questions but it's not about our MEC it's about the total lack of support at ALPA national level and what we Atlas pilots can do about it. We...are moving on!

>At least Astar got rid of the MEC chairman that buddied up with your Henderson that towed the same line and rhetoric.<

Untrue. No one on any of our MEC's has ever "toed" the same line and rhetoric as Henderson. Our recall of one of our MEC's had nothing to do with that, and everything to do with negotiations. I've had chats with Henderson after the ILN integration. At no time did he ever make references like that about ABX in my presence. Don't be dragging us into the AAWWH soap opera, please. You have quite a full cast of characters on your own, with out adding any more.

EJetCA/WHALEFR8
 

How about a little help with my previous question.

THANKS

from joetommy
 

It would not affect Atlas crewmembers going to Teamsters.

Or do you mean, "Single carrier status" as regards union voting.

Or do you mean the two airlines merged under one SCBA because that next step would be down to the company.

Personally, with the merged seniority list, I'm going to take a good slide down the pecking order, but I'm ready TO MOVE ON!

Mark,
No one at Atlas and no-one I know is 'Demonizing' the average Polar crewmember. As all of us have said MANY MANY times before, we do not want you to go away. We just want to get the merger done and GET ON WITH life. Get to our new scope clause negotiations, get to our new compensation negotiations (although the losses in bargaining power are now in the Millions - no thanks to Bobb Henderson, Robin Hair, and Mark Hoover).

So your statements are ridiculous. You sound like a little boy - "they don't like me - they want to hurt me - MOMMY!"

The real issue here is WHY don't you want to merge. Just answer that. WHY? You will have access to a growing fleet, expanding routes, and be able to get to your (our) contract negotiations.

Your courage is commendable but what are you fighting for? A scope Clause? Why? Do you want to be your own stand alone airlines? WHY? With only five airplanes and a very small route structure? WHY? This is beyond childish and silly.

You don't like the thought of merging with Atlas, even though you actually liked it several years ago when you thought the merged list was going to increase your seniority. Yet you have the temerity to accuse the Atlas MEC of only looking out for their best interests? WHY? Why did you want to merge before but don't now?

I heard the furlough notices are in the mail. Wouldn't an MEC that wanted to serve its members try hard to work with all parties involved to actually PREVENT furloughs? WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS? I heard the ANC basing event has already been explained to the Polar MEC? WHY haven't you told your crews yet? WHY?

You make some serious accusations Mark for someone in a glass house.....


Joetommy - there is no "Atlas/Teamster single carrier plan." Simple. Atlas pilots will soon be teamsters with or without the Polar pilots. In fact, through all of this there was some hard work done to keep ALPA from petitioning for a Single carrier status. If single carrier status happens it will be from Bobbrobin requesting it, not from the Atlas guys. And we all know how the company feels. But to answer your larger question, when it comes time to negotiate the merged contract, there will be 750+ Atlas/Teamster guys voting and 123 Polar/ALPA guys voting.

I have no clue, brother. I can hardly read these threads, as it makes my head hurt.

I read stuff like this:What productive discussion can really occur?

I spoke my piece.

Cheers and beers.

JT - nope. Single carrier status is not a major selling point. There are too many other reasons to go Teamsters.

Ejet. The point I am trying to make is why fight for a scope clause that will cause the loss of ALL jobs and cause the airline to go away. Wouldn't it be smarter to finish the merger and negotiate for a decent scope clause and decent wages. There certainly is a small chance to find an arbitrator who will rule in favor of Bobbrobin. That is what they want to do; delay delay while filing continuous grievances and hope to get an arbitrator that will rule favorably for them. But my question is, To what end? And, are you all willing to bet your jobs on that small chance? What will be the end result? And the really big question is are you all playing right into Prater and Helling's hands?

I have said this before and will continue to say it. Don't win the battle if you don't want to lose the war. Look at what Polar has already lost. With the June furloughs they will be roughly 1/3 the size they were when Bobb took office. In fact they will be EXACTLY the size that the Atlas merger committee said they would be. 123 pilots. With 516 coming back to Atlas, Polar will be down to 5 planes running a few Japan routes and one SA route. All under Bobbrobins tenure.

How long will the shrinkage continue - and WHY? Wouldn't it be better to merge and all work together to get to a decent contract. Many of the Atlas pilots, as Atlast said, will be losing seniority - but all are willing to do so because it is what was agreed on when they agreed on "binding arbitration," because they want to get to the merged contract negotiations. That is impossible right now due to Bobbmarkrobin.

Why don't you both post your scope clauses here and we can all look at them and the one with the worst scope claus has the worst MEC. Now that is a simple solution to the whole argument.

How do you figure that - neither MEC was in office when the scope clauses were negotiated and both clauses were negotiated with different companies.

Just FYI, this will be my last post on any AAWH crap. This is it because it is pointless, and you are stuck in a mindset and bound not to change. Do you read what you write? Do you think about what you are saying? Did you look what AAWH did?

You are so stuck on a push that was driven by AAWH under different times and conditions. Regardless of the road travelled, look at the beginning and where we're at now.

In the beginning they said "one airline, one certificate, one pilot group". Both groups agreed to this fact. Under the above conditions, the merger process was begun. The COMPANY changed the game when they sold 49% of PO. That is a MAJOR change in what was presented. I would never continue a deal when a major tenant is changed, I wouldn't expect my MEC to either. I'm sure you can understand that. Thinking about that, I don't understand why the 5Y MEC wasn't upset about the restructuring.

The most contankerous of all merger issues, seniority, was settled. Done. Everyone agreed, it was arbitrated, and appearantly done well, as pilots from both sides complained. If there is one good-faith indication of commitment to a merger, a completed seniority list is pretty high up on the list.

After that was complete PO had a minority share sold off, and is to be maintained as a seperate certificate. PO pilots are disagreeing with 5Y pilots and the company on what constitutes a "complete operational merger". The grievance process is on going. Instead of letting it maintain it's course, people get on pprune and bitch about PO's foot dragging. Do you think the process would have gone any faster if it was 5Y filing the grievance?

Why fight for scope in an existing CBA? That may be the dumbest question (rhetorical or not) of a union member ever asked. SCOPE is the only thing that keeps us in work. The rest of the CBA is worthless without any jobs to have. Go back and read the post where the merged items are listed. About 0 are operational. Everything listed was ADMINISTRATIVE. The OpSpecs are identical verbiage because all opspecs are created equal. An operator looks at the menu and orders the paragraphs they want. One would imagine our opspecs look damn near identical to Connie's or Southern's.

You keep saying Polar is delaying. I think the company did a pretty good job taking up the 3 days of scheduled arbitration on their grievance.

Speaking of that, how come you have NEVER once assigned any blame on the company?

Here are the threats:

1) Polar will be a 6 airplane fleet forever. You don't wanna be a 6 airplane fleet.
2) Polar is not economical as a 6 airplane fleet (GSS appearantly makes money flying 3 -400s around. That's 3 airplanes that 5Y or PO pilots SHOULD be flying.....and yes I have been under a scope clause where GSS could exist, but would be flown by unionized pilots of the parent company)
3) We're going to ship all ya'll up to ANC
4) PO will be a 1 airplane airline.
5) 516 is going back to the lessor

BTW, according to our CBA, they can't furlough when alliance flying is occuring. JC sent out a copy of the alliance flying agreement.

Do you really think DHL will pull all the flying if PO wins the arbitrations, and remain a separate group? Would AAWH go through all this dog-and-pony show about DHL in EVERY SINGLE presentation if they thought it was a shaky contract? Did you read the BSA and the FSA?

They do a great job hyping up all the work they have for 5Y, and for PO, so why is either company threatened for a work-force reduction?

Polar was already awarded more flying for DHL and the aiplanes are ACMI from Atlas with Atlas Crews flying them. (Look up the press release yourself).

Do you really think the airline will be shut down due to one grievance? The shareholders will put the uppermanagement's heads on spears and drag their bodies through the townsquare if the f-up the DHL deal.

What happens if they remove the PO pilots from the PO certificate? Will they try to remove all the pilots from the 5Y certificate next? Then will they fire all of us during negotiations when there's a group of pilots that will contract to them cheaper than we work? If the PO pilots are removed from the certificate, they will do the same for 5Y.

Follow the money. As much as they'd like to make us think they really care one way or the other about this, but they have a publicly-traded company to run. They pay those mofos big money to make the stock price go up. If PO tanks, they stock will drop. If they drop the DHL deal, there will be no one in upper management you'd recognize.

These boys wanna play in the big leagues. They care about $$$. The CFO, at the April 14 investor day (it's the one where there was one VP left off the flow chart.). was asked how much senior captains make. He guessed "200 grand all-in". They did know that they are able to stretch the 5Y workforce by 24% due to the "flexibility (ie involuntary extension)" of the Atlas crews. They don't know what they pay you, but they know it's cheaper to pay a premium for extension than hire more crews and let you have a life.

At the end of the day, they'll grow the company regardless of one pilot group or 2. This isn't going to be the end of the world for PO if we win, and it won't be the end of the world for 5Y either.

No matter what the outcome is, I'll go to work, flip my switches and look forward to seeing my family as soon as I can, whether it's here, Connie's or god knows where.

Oh, please re-read my post about the Teamsters. Been there, done that.

fly safe, and you best hope for us all.

Whale

Your comment about furlough notices goes a long way to demonstrate the disgusting relationship the Atlas MEC has with Cato and why the Polar side distrusts that MEC. Indeed, Cato was busy engineering more nonsense to coerce Polar and set Dave up in his position today. The boat has sailed on dealing with either.

Polar crewmembers have made clear that they will not be intimidated and want no part of a merger that violates their CBA, and dooms them to the Atlas CBA minus concessions--no doubt the bargaining would be 2v1.

Whale, you've gloated over the misfortune heaped on Polar crewmembers who are only defending their rights. You eagerly anticipate and approve of more coercion by the Cato/Bourne team to damage Polar crewmembers, and the transfer of more flying. You applaud the actions of an MEC who sends Paul Alves to testify against the Polar FEs, and keep them out of work. You continue to blame another MEC for delays in your negotiations, when your own leadership sold the Atlas crewmembers down the river with two LOAs delaying Section 6 negotiations in return for their precious Flight Pay Loss. LOAs that the Polar MEC refused to sign. TRAGIC. You, Whale, and your pathetic minority make the Polar case for staying clear.

Atlas crewmembers know the truth. As always, I hope they will make decisions which will finally give them some representation. The "many" have tolerated these "few" for too damn long. This Teamsters nonsense is a gamble that will have implications far beyond keeping Dave and John employed (and Tom busy posting)--it has been expected for a long time.

If the cat is out of the bag for some, let the rest of us know. It sounds like an announcement was made.

I wasn't referring that he was a patsy of Henderson. Just doing everything in a similar manner. Since he got recalled, that just explains matters even more.

The scab statement was made by Henderson at the Global Pilots Alliance meeting with Heir Buchner (sp?) that Henderson crashed uninvited. The statement was made while the ABX 1224 VP was standing within earshot of Henderson making the statement to your now departed chairman.

Whether you canned him for his negotiations ability or what ever, we don't care now that he is gone.

Since I had a direct line to those meetings, and nothing like that was ever reported being said, I doubt your story has merit. I also chat with ABX pilots. I'm confident that if such a thing had been said, I'd have heard about it. Like I said. Leave us out of your train wreck.

>Since he got recalled, that just explains matters even more.<

No, he was not recalled. He was the sacrificial lamb so our beloved CEO could save a little face. He was moved to the Vice Chair position after the TA was announced. And he resigned after the contract was put out for ratification, which was his stated intent when he was put in office in the first place. We recalled our previous MEC because they were going to sign off on a concessionary contract. Now that its been clarified what went on at our little corner of the field, I'm outta here.

Are you saying you walked the line with us? Funny,I didn't see any Atlas crews on the shifts that I worked. Just how did you put your job on the line?
You know, for years now I have heard so much dribble about the other shoe dropping at Polar, and it never seems to happen. Over the years various tricks have been used. For instance, we know that merc9 and whale were able to access our IP addresses for their much touted lawsuit that went nowhere. Which reminds me to tell all you out there to watch you back, these two may have your account IP addresses and any log on names you use may be compromised. There is no doubt that Bourne and Caputo worked and still work doing Cato's bidding. Too much get out concerning confidential material for it not to.
If Atlas wants to go to the Teamsters, fine; but ask yourself this: What's in it for me vs. whats in it for the company? Sure you have a nasty contract. Well, go ahead and get it fixed!! Don't you think that Cato may be using this merger (that is probably not going to happen, was never meant to) as distraction from keeping you from doing just that? Management is just fine with the CBA. Are you? And while I am at it, would the Teamsters makes it look any better, and if so how long would that take? Does the Teamsters have a plan that will guarantee anything to you?
I mentioned earlier that I would like to see a merger, because the company doesn't. So, how can they delay it. Easy, knowing that one MEC strictly interprets the CBA, why not try to merge in violation of their scope clause and use the other MEC as a willing, or unwitting, accomplice. That way they can:
1. Divide and conquer
2. Continue to use Stanstead to the detriment of the crew member
3. Continue to use IRS tax implications so you will not use the gateway you so hard fought for.
4. Give the minions a once a years profit sharing bonus and tell them how good they have it.
5. Open a new venue in Ireland
5. Possibility to suspend a current CBA and delay negotiating a new one while the "new union gets in place"
Go and change if you want but all you will have accomplished is to leave ALPA and I seriously doubt you would have improved you position with the company.

In all of my years of commercial flying(20+) I have never in my life seen an MEC so unstable, without direction and lacking in leadership than the Atlas MEC. But that is typical. It trullely mirrors an AAWW management team that has the exact same qualities. I can honestly say how fortunate(and lucky) I am to have an MEC with direction and leadership. If I were an Atlas crewmember, with the instability and the "we dont really know what to do" attitude. I would be afraid. Very afraid.

whaledriver101
 

The Atlas MEC is doing a good job. Circumstances, unfortunately, constantly hinder them. First it was someone in the polar union who subverted the Atlas strike. Then the polar union prevented the Atlas pilots from getting a contract. Then ALPA national took all the dues and further prevented a merger. Then management forced the Atlas pilots to work hideous schedules, go to outbases for 30 days, and accept Stansted (even though there is little to no flying directly out of Stansted).


None of this could have been foreseen or prevented. A move to a new union should solve most of the problems.

It will solve a big problem for ALPA.

Layinlow : "Just how did you put your job on the line?" When the Chief Pilot gets my private personal cellphone number from out of the blue and tells me to enter BLDG 23 at JFK or I'm fired and I tell him no, it's a picketted building even though there are no pickets there, I call that putting my job on the line.
Now let it go and move on.

Biilybob521 : It won't solve ALPA's problem. They want us close to keep control and they want our dues in the face of declining revenue. We're moving on.

Whaledriver101 : Atlas MEC has direction and leadership and Atlas crewmembers approve of that direction and leadership. We're moving on.

Layinlow : To say that John and Dave are doing Cato's bidding is insane and I ask you once again to prove that absurdity. Divide and conquer you say; Atlas and Polar crew will be no more divided than they are already. We're throwing out an olive branch so we can all move on together.

CptVac : I'm still laughing but I have to admit you said something truthful,
"Atlas crewmembers know the truth." We absolutely do; that truth enables us to move on.

EJetCA : Don't leave the thread, you have some good points and it's a good read. You really seem as if you want to move on.

Then we all win. After 19 years of ALPA membership, including committee work--bye. I will try not to let the door hit me on the way out.

atlast
Putting your job on the line means not going into the building like one of your brethren did in Miami. He got fired and was subsequently rehired at the insistence of the Polar union who refused to agree to a settlement until everyone at Atlas who was fired for not crossing was rehired. That is putting your job on the line. Wear your battle star well.