Just got back from a trip and heard that more guys sent in their resignations.
Capts. & F/Os

As I am counting the days (35 to go) as well I'd love to see some improvements for my future ex collegues.

AAIops said,

'Now what is wrong with this? If I can count with my 10 fingers it seems to me that they are offering 10 more days then pilots had before!! What is wrong with that?'

This is still 11 off days less than others and still 7 days more work for less money. Nobody ever asked for a FFF or FIA contract but this offer is simply not reasonable.

As for the 6 month out of the home country (the EU rule you mentioned), already history for a number of years now (used to be 189 days).

People are drawing a line because nothing is changing - nothing!

oops - only 34 to go:)

AAI operations -

Thank you for coming to this board. I appreciate your input.

AAI drivers -

Do you guys live at base (ie: LUX/Jeddah/FRA etc etc) or do you guys airline
from your hometown to your base (LUX/FRA/Jeddah) on day 1 and airline back on the last day of your tour?

Also, how much deadheading do you guys do?

Do you have any ZED fares/ ID75/ ID90 deal with some airlines to get to your homeland/hometown on your days off if you live on base?

Appreciate any input.

Regards,
V1.

Here are answers to my good friend MaxBlow.


That is news to me. Have you got any names?


Well... as I said good things are happening. Did you expect that new management would change the contract deal to an FFF deal over night? You guys can't stick together (union thing), because of that you will have to except what the management hands you...


I would like to ask you to show us some numbers. What is an Icelandic FFF F/O and CPT getting total and net in comparison to a contractor?


Now how can you say that? You know that things are happening!


Thank you for your comment v1r8!

AAIO - would you be interested in hearing some of the real-world stuff that goes on?
I'll PM them, I would not air them in public.

Yes please.

AAIops,

if you're ops 'only' (as we're contractors 'only') how comes you know everything better?

Why should everything that you write be actual fact and all we know is rumours only ?

In my years of service for AP and there single client operator AAI I figured
that you guys (up north) actually really believe that your pooh doesn't stink.

A bit funny though.

I believe that you're just hiding behind this nick name and you're either a guy high up, one of the agency guys or the guy that just recently resigned from his position 'cause it was getting too much to handle and as a reward for this he placed himself on the -400s ?!?!

Whatever it is, fact is the guys are leaving for many good reasons, no input, suggestion or letters are answered or appreciated and that is why you've to constantly hire (and fire).

That's it for me, pm me if you want to say something- I'm happily serving my notice period.:)

Period!

This from AAI Ops dude...

"Well... as I said good things are happening. Did you expect that new management would change the contract deal to an FFF deal over night? You guys can't stick together (union thing), because of that you will have to except what the management hands you..."


Funny, I heard the same thing except that was 3 years ago. "New management" and "...things are happening..." are phrases you guys keep on using to keep the suckers at their posts long enough to get some more cash out of Saudia and Garuda and the like. I am so glad I realized AAI's line of bullcrap in time to move on, although I still kick myself for sticking around for the 1 1/2 years I did. You're speaking the same old lies all over again. Don't anyone believe this guy.

Dear MaxBlow,

I belive we've covered our topics, if we continue we'll start repeting ourselfs. :)

Have a nice day :)

Hello AAI Operations
Are you for real or just trying to get information as to who people are posting the problems here concerning AAI?
A few years ago crews tried to do something about this and stand together in KUL remember that?
We trusted one Captain to present our side, he threatned industrial action, none of us knew about this until after the fact.
So everyone involved was punished in one way or another.
What about all the crew members that refused to operate against the MEL"s and FDT that complained and nothing ever happened.
Some worked there for many years and helped build the company, when they had enough they left.
Now they are the bad guys.
AAI needs a whole managment change, from the chief pilot on down.
Lots of good dedicated people have left because of this comply or goodbye type thinking.
Every single one of us would have done anything for this company, but when we did break the rules it set a new standard, before long we had no standards at all, it became anything goes as long as they can cover it up.
So what has changed?

You're a brave man owning up to that statement on a public forum Earl.:suspect:

Ease up guys
 

A lot of old grips about the company are coming out here and I don't blame you guys. However, don't lay those hard feelings at the personal doorstep of the AAI operations person who seems to be trying to have honest dialogue with us. Who knows, he may not have even worked here three years ago, Earl.

If we shoot this messenger he will go away and we have lost an opportunity to get valuable information from him, and to have POSITIVE input to the guys in AAI operations in this informal forum.
I personally have seen some improvements here in the last few months. For instance, I am now called and asked if I will work on a day off rather than just getting notice of the trip shoved under my door. Conversely, we don't get any overtime pay for working on that day off.

THAT needs to change!

The pay here is pretty decent, but you have to be willing to spend long periods away from home. If you have a family, this isn't the place for you unless you get a fixed base contract.

I intend to write more later in this forum but there are some things to like about working for Air Atlanta as long you understand the deal. The checks always come on time and there are a lot of good guys here with tons of experience. We tend to be bashed by outsiders who don't have a clue about the quality of our cockpits. We do some of the hardest flying in the world at Air Atlanta. We go EVERYWHERE, with all the attendant problems of borders, politics, fly-over permits, hotels good bad and ugly. Half the controllers we talk to barely speech English. But we do it and we do it well, in my opinion.

More later, just don't shoot the messenger, okay?

You can't be too hard on the AAI ops guy, if he's up in Iceland there's every chance he's doing his best under tough circumstances and he doesn't know any better anyway. I'm more interested in this "Strategic Review".....they're up for sale?

I guess from Eimskip's perspective it makes good sense since Atlanta represents a lot of potential risk with all those contractors around the world working for the mysterious Airborne Personnel. Who owns them again? :}

Who is gonna buy?
 

another money laundry icelandic bubble company or Cathay Cargo,and they will automatically integrate all contractors below 60,into their seniority list,and of course all commanders get direct leftseat.....

chi,chaye,I dont think so....

-most prob. another icelandic money laundry company......

I don't know how to prove who I am with out giving my name


No, sorry :(


We will have to hope that things are changing as they are promising...


Thank you for your input Flying Guy, it is much appreciated.


My theory is that the company has already been sold. In yesterdays paper Icelandair says that they might be interested. If Icelandair will buy in the next couple of weeks they were just announcing this to comply with rules of the Icelandic stock market. Lets see how this will go :)+

p.s. Ask the correct questions VS1711 and you will get the answers you look for.

Thanks for the input AAI Ops. Interesting to think Icelandair might be the buyers although there's some logic in them seeking to consolidate. Another rumour is that Atlas are interested.

So what's the right question in your view?

Air Atlanta
 

Ok. Now anyone with money to invest and in their right mind would not touch AAI with a 12 foot pole. The company is in abysmal condition and chances that it can be fixed without huge layoffs and house cleaning with a firehouse in Iceland are slim to nil.
You want names AAI OPS. News for you here: Many of the people that have jobs elsewhere have not resigned yet or have not told the company. Yes I could give you names, but let's rather play a game. Leaving the F/E's alone that do not really have options, everyone with EU passport and JAA licence with experience that is employable in Europe is looking for or found another job. AAI is and will be a home for people that are inexperienced or on the Icelandic contract or otherwise unemployable.
How many guys and gals left AAI between January 1st and end of February. 3Captains that had all been with the company for 4 years or more and several First Officers. (Not counting the F/E's)
Flying Guy: Your posts have started to annoy me to an extent. A good salary. As your initials it is a total load of BS. Take the rose coloured glasses off and have a look. The salary from AAI with the USD/EUR exchange rate is CRAP, garbage really not even worth entering a discussion about. But then again over 60 guys dont really have an option where to work with a non JAA license.
Personally I took a 35% paycut since joining AAI. Not a pretty picture.

Thanks for the information folks it all helps.
AAI Ops, a page or two ago you mentioned that you were getting flooded with CV's from guys that did not have sufficient time. Could please indicate what the minimum time requirements are. I have the stuff off of the website but what is the company actually looking for with respect to times. Does command on a Turbo-prop over 20000kgs count for anything or is jet time required. If it does count how much is necessary. Any info in regards to time requirements for both Captain and FO would be great.
With regards to pay there was a note at the start of this topic of 185 plus 50 perdiems. Is this Captain's or FO's salary. Which ever it is could the other be given here as well.
Thanks DW

Thank you for your questions Double Wasp.

According to FOM minimum requirements are 500 hrs. but I know they want to see guys with AT LEAST 1000 hrs., turbine experience is a must.

Please refer to www.ppjn.com for pay.

You seem to have what they are looking for, have you applied?

AAI Ops thanks for the response.
The website you gave has some good info but it is dated 2004. Is it still the same pay or has it changed at all?
No I have not applied yet. I am still on a bond for a few more months and I don't want to break my word if I can help it. There is a couple of other possibilities that I want to explore where I don't have to pay for the rating first. I am not saying that these guys are the last resort but if I can get away without having to pay why not.
I do have one more question with regards to obtaining the rating. Do they provide this there and you give them the money for it, or do you have to go get it yourself somewhere else? And what is the going rate for a 747 type endorsement these days anyway?
Thanks for all your help.
DW

Yes, I think this is still the going rate.

Regarding the rating: they will provide it for your free of charge. I don't know the going rate of the rating, but I can't imagen that it is cheep. :)

Thanks for the replies. Do you recommend applying direct or through an agency?
Is there a website for Airborne or is it just send an email and hope for the best.
I will be looking for something else once my comitment is done and I thank everyone for the information given both positive and negative. It all helps.
DW

They prefer the applications to be sent on line: http://www.airatlanta.com/index.aspx?groupid=72

Good luck :)

Any applications sent to AAI will be fwd to Airborne to Jerry O'Sullivan for screening so you might as well sent it to him direct. AAI does not hire directly nor do they offer direct employment for pilots except the 75 to 80 some that are on the FFF/FIA contract.

To get in touch with Jerry and for employment opportnities with AAI, try [email protected] or [email protected]

AAI is still looking for people and will be in the considerable future.

The above mentioned jobsworth is not quailified to do anything, least of all screening aircrew. God help you all.

Why would anyone want to board a sinking ship????

Thank you for your input Atlanta-Driver. Please note that Jerry does not do crew selection for AAI, we do it ourselves. The contractors are not employed by AAI, that is true.

Formally Known As - thank you for your input, you've made your point. Why these sour comments? Did you get laid off?

:)

AAI Operations.

"Why these sour comments? Did you get laid off?"


No I laid AAI off as I could afford to. Saw the writing on the wall very quickly as I wasn't wearing rose tinted glasses.


If the sour comments make just one potential applicant think twice about joining AAI my work has been worthwhile.


My complaints are not about the money so much as I signed a contract with my eyes open. The contract did not state I had to put up with lies however. Lies?? Yes and I have the correspondence to prove it.

Do you like being lied to? No I don't either.:=

I agree with "Formally Known As". AAI has a lot coming to them, if "what goes around comes around" is valid they have a whole lot of negative energy pointed right at them.

I don't think there is any actual bases for your comments, my suspicion is that you are ex-employees that were terminated for some reason. I will therefore not honor your comments with further replys. Best of luck to the two of you.

AAIops,

seems to be a common problem in HQ that nobody can take and handle criticism.
It is very important though to take every input very seriously whatever direction it comes from. This is the only way for you guys to improve in the future.

It has been said in here many times (even you did) that there's plenty of room for improvement. As hard as it may sound at times - a company can only
be as good as the management that runs it!

No hard feelings - but even guys that still work there are not very happy.
Now how about the employee survey in Iceland only (!) why not include the contractors (remember how many we are).

Would be a good way to get some ideas for improvement.

I'm not sure how useful it is to say that AAI Ops have a lot coming to them since a lot of the management have changed since the worst abuses took place. Having said that, the crewing is still fundamentally unfair when you have a small proportion of pilots working on much more favourable terms than the majority and this is probably the biggest reason that AAI leaves so many of it's crew with a bad taste in their mouths when they leave. To add to MaxBlow's point, listening to the contractors instead of branding them whingers would help people understand this a lot better.

What an incredible attitude :) AAI started operating for us about 14 years ago, attended many enjoyable evenings in Rose Village, heard too many stories about the inner workings within AAI to disregard!

Mutt

DUH
 

"I will therefore not honor your comments with further replys"

The arrogance of the few and privileged is unreal. It shines through with just about everything. They actually really think they are better than the rest of the world. Reminds me of a certain European nation from the 30's

AAI Operations

".....ex-employees that were terminated for some reason......."

Although your grasp of the English written word is quiet good I think you are getting confused between terminated and TERMINAL DECLINE which is the case at AAI. You have just demonstrated, albeit unwittingly, one of the reasons why.

It appears the Peter Principle is still well entrenched at AAI (or should I say Petersson). "Les abrutis n'ont rien compris".

Constructive criticism is a good thing, but a comment like "AAI has a lot coming to them" or "Reminds me of a certain European nation from the 30's" can hardly be regarded as such. I don't want to put the effort into answering posts that are mainly innuendos towards AAI, from people I don't even know if they have ever worked there, I have better things to do with my time. But if there are people out here that want to have mature discussions, I will particiate, no problem.

Atlanta-Driver
Formally Knows As
Ganbare
MaxBlow
2bad2sad (I name him because I saw a reply from him this morning which has now been deleted)
18-Wheeler
Earl
Flying Guy

For those of you that work, or have worked for AAI, I have the follwoing project, I hope you will participte:

List 10 things that you think will improve Air Atlanta. Also name 5 things that are good and you are happy with or were happy with.

Others, former or current employees of AAI, are also welcome to participate.

This will be interesting :)

AAi Operations

Fair enough I'll tee off.

I was employed by AAI, for a short period between 2000 and now. I am not going to be more specific than that.

On the positive side I thought the training and checking was done in a relaxed and fair manner by the instructors I was rostered with. As has been said before there are some fine and clever personal employed by this company both permanent and contractors, people that worked hard and tried to improve things for all of us.

The rot in the "management", in my opinion, was deep seated from the chief pilot(s) on up right through to the VPFO. I included the CP's as they were company "men" and they should not have been. Also in this wide swipe was at least one person at mountain high, which was then, and probably still is AAI and HR. During my brief incarceration at AAI I witnessed some of the most accomplished lying, blatant examples nepotism and abuses of power as I have ever seen. This cancer was at the top and filtered through and the only cure IMHO was to axe the lot of them and start again with a complete lot of new management. The crews had no person to go to regarding grievances except management and this was wrong!! The CP'S should be balleted. Also as has been pointed out before, having a 2 tare pay structure for doing the same job is the quickest way to destroy moral amongst the troops I can think of. It has never worked and never will sustain a happy work force. Not referring to yearly increments etc. but to T & C's between the "elite" and the contractors. Maybe this was part of the plan to destroy moral.

It is the old story if you don't like it and it can't be fixed then leave and that is exactly what I did. Would I go back in the most unlikely event I was asked? NEVER!

Include the contractors in the employee satisfaction survey and you'll get
800+ ideas to make things better!
If I would go back again once fnished? No, thank you.

Monthly rosters and days off
 

You asked for suggested improvements.

At present, we receive our monthly roster just two or three days ahead of the month and then are only "guaranteed" the next 15 days. That doesn't allow us to plan practically anything! This is particularly hard for fixed base contractors with families who want to schedule family events.

I would like to see us receive our roster by the 20th of the preceding month and the roster be "good" for the month, not just 15 days.

Now then. the most important thing in the roster is the scheduled days off. They should be set in concrete. I frankly don't care if scheduling changes my trips to different destinations at different times during my working days. I fully appreciate that the scheduling in ACMI requires constant re adjustment due to ever changing customer requests. But make it a mission to give us our days off WHEN THEY ARE SCHEDULED so we can plan our social life.

To do this I assume will require more crews to be available, a problem right now with all the events in progress at Air Atlanta. But you asked so there is my suggestion. Better quality of life and more security will result in better crew retention. :-)

Since there has been no much negative input over the last few pages let me add that I like working here. There are a lot of good guys here (gals too) that fly and maintain these airplanes who give their professional best. And when Miller time comes around we have some really good times.

I see you are Dubai based, how easy is it to join AAI and get a Dubai base?
cheers FM

Lets see, pens with no ink for log book descrepencies, willing to look the other way for technical issues, perhaps a law degree twisting the MEL/DDPG.
Could be you mate, have what it takes?