With 2000 PIC you will have no problems securing a F/O position with Air Atlanta, but as Max says, you'll need a 747 rating which is for your own cost.

So next logical question:
How much for the rating? Written job guarantee? Fly max. allowed hrs/year?
Since I have both FAA and JAA licenses, would it be sufficient to get the rating on the FAA??

It used to be that if you had a JAA license they would pay the type rating. If you have no JAA then you pay for the type rating.

Seems to me that the poison dwarf should open his own flight school to keep AAI staffed in the RHS.

Perhaps I'm being a tad unfair.
While the dwarf was at Direct, he was quite OK, as I recall.
Clearly downhill after that.

411A,

unfair? Not at all!

PicMas,

written job guarantee?:p :p :p

You know how to read, do ya' ?

The reason I ask is that it would be a helluva lot cheaper to get the rating on my FAA rather than on the JAA. It would still be without IOE, but the first sectors with a suitably equipped gentleman in the RHS would take care of that - An appendix H rating...

Would like to hear about common experience level for F/O position.

Air Atlanta Icelandic
 

I understand that there is a new head of flight ops in AAI, and that his intention is to do something with the problem of pilots leaving.
Does any of of you guys working there care to comment whether this could give hope for improved t/c?
Maris

Looks like a lot will be done to make it work. More time off with increased salary. No details yet, but I have heard 20 on 10 off type of deal being mentioned, but again these are all AAI rumours and sometimes those are just made up by people wanting to see how fast it takes to the rumour to travel through all bases. Wait a few weeks and something should come out.

AD

If the management learnt to tell the truth it, would be a big step in the right direction.

The new head of ops is an old head of ops who was moved side ways a few years ago. He is the same as Jerry O Springer and lies out of habit. Only there because of family connections.

So what you are telling us is this. AAI have acknowledged that fact that the crews have been ripped off in the past, so to try and stop the mass exodus they have decided not to rip the crews off as much.

new eal ???
 

yes they have been ripped off big times over the years and now they'll have to pay for it.

The new deal that has been offered must have been a joke.
28 days on / 10 days off - makes you work 6 weeks in two month :D

More are leaving this month and I hear quite a few in June as well.
But no sweat as our american cousins are filling these seats quite happily with a cheap rating from WALmart and fake hours to earn 'big bugs'. :mad:

But no sweat as our american cousins are filling these seats quite happily with a cheap rating from WALmart and fake hours to earn 'big bugs'. :mad:

Max.. Where do you get this information? What "Fake hours" are you talking about?

With regard to B747 Classic aircrew at AAI, we never hear anything about the numbers and quality, rates of starters and leavers, for the Flight Engineers.

I've only heard one even mentioned just recently, in that Medina low fuel arrival, but that's the first for quite some time, and that was only a quick comment!

I understand 'big john' is still there, smiling to your face all the time, but how are the numbers going, and with it the experience levels, that remain.
By remain, I mean they stay for at least two cycles.

Cheers...FD...:\

crs clb,
airborne and/or aai never conduct any br-chks nor will they ask for references of any kind.
they started doing it but than stopped again.
we all remember the faa licenced pilot who said he had been capt. on serveral types. he was involved in a tailstrike and podstrike and it turned out that he had been fired from all his previous positions. many trng. capts complained but he stayed on (fake hrs).
of course it's not all of them (sorry for that) but quite a few that cheat on their ttl time to get a jet job in europe and quick command, not only at aai.
but that's probably a different topic already.
HitList,
if you speak up you'll be on a long vacation the very next day!
safe flying!:ok:

I think it would be like shooting one self in the leg, or even the head, to admit to the fact that I work at AAI Headquarters in Iceland. I have a few comments on what has been said here, it will be interesting to see where this will take us.

First of all I want to comment on pilots resignations. They are a fact, but not to the extent described here. I don't have any numbers available, but I know they are far from being such that they will put the company on the spot. The discussion here on pprune might be what is causing the flood of applications, I'm told that the human resources department had to allocate one person to go through the pile. Having said that I admit that the majority of the applications is from pilots with less than 1000 hrs total time and no jet experience. That is not what AAI is looking for and those pilots need not apply.

Secondly I want to comment on the working conditions. The first thing a pilot has to realize when working for AAI is that AAI is not a scheduled airline. Rosters change, even every day! This is due to the fact that the airlines buying flight hrs from AAI change what they require AAI to fly for them. If for example a customer gets a cancellation on a big load that he planned to move on his aircraft, he will right away cancel a flight with AAI and allocate his fleet to move what AAI was meant to move. Then the customer lands another deal to move something, first thing he does is to call AAI and tell them that he will require their aircraft to move the load. AAI is working with the "over flow" from other companies, therefore it is impossible for the company it issue rosters and have them stick for the 15 or 30 days they are issued for. If pilots, who are on base, find this unacceptable, they are not working for the right company. I know that many times the operations department is having problem with pilots that don't want to accept a roster change. When they finally do so they call it a favor to the company. Is flying airplanes when you are a pilot, and you are getting paid for it, a favor for the company you work for or is it called doing ones job?

Third issue. Many times over there has been talk about the Icelandic pilots and their salary here on pprune. I'm not going to comment on any figures but would like to point out that Icelandic pilots have to pay between 30 and 40% tax of what they earn. Other pilots usually don't pay tax as Jerry and co pay through some off shore accounts. In total the Icelandic pilots take less home per month, but they also work less. Net income per flown hour is about the same, might be in favor of the Icelanders, but not to the extent that it should be the problem it is.

Forth. Limited resources to the flight operations department is a big problem. The company has for many years believed that too few pilots is a good thing. Who can agree on that?? We hope that the new VP of Flight Operations will change that. I've heard that he is planing to hire a bunch of new pilots, lets hope he does, it will ease the pressure on pilots and ops staff.

Number five. I saw someone comment on the proposed on/off system and called it a joke! The new VP of Flight Operations is trying to change the environment pilots work in. The first thing he does is to have pilots work 4 weeks and off for 10 days (please note that this is still just a proposal, nothing has been confirmed yet). It used to be that the pilots worked when the company was in high season, then they went home and came back when the business bloomed again. Now the company isn't experiencing as much of low and high seasons as it did, so many pilots find themselves being stuck on base for months and months before being able to go home to their loved ones. So what is wrong with this proposal? Keep an open mind to things that might be good for you, if you are not happy make sure you criticism is constructive. A positive voice is rather heard than I negative one.

Although I'm more on the positive side in this post than negative I should mention that I, as so many other, have negative comments about the company I (we) work for. But we are all hoping what things are getting better with new management, therefore I don't want to focus on the bad things, except when trying to fix them.

I could go on for quite some time, but I think that this is enough for now. I hope I get some comments from you guys, but please note that i will not answer rude or unfair comments or remarks. If you want comments from me be polite please.

Edited: Paragraph spacing.

AAI_operations,
Are AAI IOSA certified?
Mutt

I'm sorry, I have no idea. I can see on the internet that this is an IATA thing, but AAI is not an IATA airline.

So that means that if you are operating for an IOSA certified airline, that airline is responsible for ensuring IOSA compliance?

Mutt

I would not know. You know that AAI is mainly flying cargo aircraft?

Not in our case, you are flying humans.....plus i think 1 cargo aircraft...



Mutt

Then you are talking about Saudia. I don't know enough about the contract made between AAI and Saudia to comment on this, nor do I know enough about this approval.

OK so let us look at Saudia Flt 2250, it finally landed at its destination with 3600 kgs of fuel.(B747 TF-AMJ).

What procedures do you have in place to:
1: Record that the flight landed with below minimum fuel.
2: Discovered why this happened?
3: Advise the lessee why this happened.
4: Implement corrective active active to avoid recurrence.

Mutt

I guess that answers to these questions will be given by my boss to your boss, not from me to you here on pprune.

Ha ha, good answer.......

Yes the answers will be supplied outside of Pprune....


Mutt

IAOSA
 

IATA Operational Safety Audit for those in ops, nice to know you see. Or if one does not know something, using an internet search engine can do wonders.

AAIops
 

AAI ops,
read your post and have a few comments.
Resignations
Wouldn't it be easier to improve T&C's to prevent crews from leaving and spend enormous amounts of money rather than to train new crews over and over again that will also just stay for short periods ?
AAI is not a scheduled Airline
Very true! But this doesn't mean that crews have give up their lives to be available. Day to day rostering has it that even off days disapear and people can't plan anything. Everybody has a private life and it is of course a favour to the company if a crew member goes to work on a rostered off day! In fact this day should be paid extra as well (just like it is for permanent crews).
Icelandic taxes
Fact is that everybody who lives in Europe has to pay taxes somewhere in the range between 20% and 45%.
Keep in mind that contractors have no benefits at all and are paid in U$D with no compensation whatsoever.
Limited resources
Get the required resources - hire professionals, pay their price, fairly simple.
I wish the new management luck quite some work ahead. Maybe things improve for all contractors but management has to wake up now!

Thank you for your post MaxBlow, I feel that you are very factual and I'm happy to see that.

I'll go through your reply and answer every comment you made.


T&C's are being improved with the new the rostering system: 4 weeks on / 10 days off. I hope that will help, but I think that a part of the problem (why crews are leaving) is that the moral is not good enough. Management could help fix that and hopefully they will, but first they have to see the problem and I don't know if they do.

In regards to conditions alone I think that if you compare pay between AAI and other operators in the same field, AAI is not as unfair as some users here on pprune say they are. By browsing through www.ppjn.com you can see that, but I think that AAI could improve in that field, and hopefully the will. Everything happens in small steps, but sometimes they are too few and too small...


Crewing tries to keep changes on rosters to a minimum. Off days should never disappear from your roster, you get a minimum of 7 days per month, if you don't, talk to the Manager of Crew resources. There are rules about this and everyone should adhere to them, if somebody is trying cheat on you he will assist you.

Rostering is not done on a day to day bases, except in Jeddah. SV is constantly changing our schedule so there is just no way that a roster can be issued for 15 days and kept. I think that Rostering has been issuing these rosters with stand-by days and days off. You should only be asked to fly when on stand-by, not on off days.

Favors have been done by crew members, of course! But a roster change is not a favor. If crew members can not accept that their roster will change they are not working for the correct airline. I'm not encouraging anyone to resign, I'm just pointing out a simple fact.


True and not true. As said in my earlier post payments are made to an off shore accounts (or where you ask for it) and because you spend more than half the year away from home you don't pay taxes at home (EU rule I believe). I remember a few Danish guys that left the company because they couldn't go home every 4 weeks to claim their benefits, I don't think they were paying any Danish taxes.

In regards to the benefits; I know that AAI crew members don't get any benefits, but why don't the contractors form a union and demand them? Last year some guys tried to unionize contractors within AAI, but their first action was to strike! How stupid was that? Fist make a union, have everybody join it and then do something. Don't have crew members say if they are in our out by forcing them to strike on the first day if they want to be in. Needless to say only a handful of guys participated in the strike.


Yes, it is fairly simple. But lets put it up like this: You are the Manager of Crew resources and you say to your VP of flight operations: I need 50 pilots for this job, that is the absolute minimum! Then the VP of Flight Ops says: well, then you only get 30! This has been one of the biggest problems within AAI. Hopefully this will be better with new VP of Flight Operations and a new Chief Pilot. They have already started hiring more pilots and hopefully that will help.

And yes, agreed, the management has to wake up! It might be too late tomorrow!


Having said all that I would like you AAI guys who read this pass a message on to your colleagues: If you are unhappy don't bitch about it for the 8, 10 or 12 hrs you are flying. If you are unhappy just write a polite e-mail to HQ in Iceland and say why you are unhappy. If you don't get a reply send it again and again and again until you get a response. Send it to Human Resources, send it to Manager of Crewing, send it to VP of Flight Operations, send it to the Chief Pilot and send it to the CEO! Too often guys go on without saying anything, except to each other or at the most the poor their s**t over some poor ops staff which don't deserve it and can't do anything about it.

I'll let this do for now, I hope you got your answers MaxBlow :)

AAI Operations
 

A flight deck commitee would be a good start with members elected by line flight crew. They would represent the flight crew on all matters.

Also an end to the laying off of well qualified crew because someone in engineering or operations does not like them. If the company has a professional problem with someone the crew member must have a chance to defend themselves. This would mean the Chief Pilot and Chief flight engineer would need to be involved to help the crew not yes men for the company.

All bases should be shared fairly no matter where you are from including Iceland. If you do a term in Jeddah then you should have chance of a base elsewhere.

It all boils down to management in Iceland respecting ALL crew members.

Good luck to all.

AAI_Operations

Lostinspace could not have made it clearer than that. I suggest you take heed.

Thank you for your post Lostinspace, here are my answers for you. Don't hesitate to shoot back if you feel my answers aren't adequate.

That is a good idea!

Well... They had something that they called "a Forced Vacation" 6 months back. That was due to low demand of flights and unfortunately necessary so the company would survive. But I don't think you are talking about that. When I think back over all the years I have been with AAI, I can only think of two lay-offs where I thought the company was unfair. I guess you guys know of one F/E who got sacked recently, he is one of the unfair ones. Too often pilots have been allowed to go too far before getting laid off. In all cases except in those two I can think of they were well passed their expiration date.

I would have to admit that I would sack 10 or 12 immediately if I held a position to do so. The vast majority of you guys are great, but there are always some that do not belong...

True, but some of you guys are so f***ing pushy, threaten to quit, not take a flight and so on... of course they get what they want... and the nice quiet guys don't get what they request. Some might understand this as a hint that they should behave like the others, but it is not. Please don't! I'm not quite sure, but aren't all Icelanders just based in Iceland?

True, but do you feel they don't? If you are going to say that they like the Icelanders more you are wrong. It is just that the Icelanders have a union.


I would also like to thank Formally Known As for his post.

I would if I could, but I only fly a desk equipped with a dual monitored computer and an IP phone. The pioneer in a pilots union must be a pilot.


That is all for now :)


p.s. a closed forum for AAI employees might be a good idea, that might be the beginning...

Fair enough, at least you are taking it in.

I think I know who you are...oh yes i dooooo... You're Jerry O'Springer!! Oh yes you are.

How was that for a guess?

hahaha... that is a good one :) but far from being correct :)

Firstly I do not work for AAI but I may have a few suggestions that could help.

At the company I work for we do not have a union. We used to have a pilot body that was elected to negotiate with the company on behalf of all crews on issues that effected the pilot body and individuals. That didn’t work so well as when the group didn’t get what the other pilots thought was fair the negotiators were sometimes very harshly criticised and a few even left the company. This created a division and extreme stress in some of the crews for a small gain in T & C’s.

What we do now is pay an Industrial relations lawyer to work on our behalf. Captains pay about $600 and FO’s about $400 per year and that get us a year of his service. We only have a small pilot group and as the company grows and hires more and they join then the costs per member goes down. He has achieved lots more and we have more than covered our costs with increased benefits and conditions. There is no stress to the pilot group, and we have professional legal advice an all matters. He has negotiated our contracts and recently added productivity bonuses.This works really well for us and from what I have read I think it will work well for AAI crews.
We also setup a group forum. The only ones with access are our Lawyer and our pilots.

This is easy to setup and once it is setup then the work required from the pilots is minimum.

Good Luck

I have a few friends who worked there a few years ago, late 2004-2005. I have to say, if what they say was true, AAI has to be the worst place in the world to work.

Spoke with someone who just went for an interview in LGW and met the new Chief Pilot. Not very impressive. Job was offered, and job was turned down. No ability to commit to any base or days off. Doesn't seem like things have changed at all.

A Cry For Help
 

Hoi all my little cash cows! Oim joost back from anodder o me leetl vaccations to d'Beloovid Emerald Isle. Da BIG difference is lads dat Oi'm gettin a joocy sloice of all yer wages all d'while. Dats whoy I Loove you all so much and put so many years in settin oop all these creative contracts. Clever words and lots of rewards for the boys! Its You Oi'm thinkin of Lads, aal d whoile, You!
Now, since last toime I set all yer restless moinds to rest and terminated the few spoitful leetl sinners causing civil oonrest der, it seems dat inexplicably, some trecherous agents of d Devil have got into Riverdeep, airbourne rats Mountainhigh upyerdrainpoipe and back on the books of this perfect agency agency of moine.
Now as you can imagine dis causes me throat to toighten wit a loomp of emotional sorrow for meself (And you good lads who assume d position wit no protests) Dats the esteemed position of an AAI contractor wid the special place in heaven reserved for ye.
Rest assured lads Oi'm gonna clean out the agitators and restore d loovin peace dat AAI is famous for.
ITS YOU OI'M TINKIN OF LADS...ONLY YOO!!!!!!!!!

as an aaic acmi user .. have not had any negative feed back from the pilot community flying on our contracts

acmi48
 

Y dont moan about internal company problems to the customer. That would do no good as the customer is hardly responsible for the actions or conditions the ACMI operator or their crewing company choose to impose.

4weeks on - 10 days off Typical of AAI, good idea but not quite right! How about 4 weeks on - 2 weeks off?

Good idea. This is something that AAI pilots might want to look into, I'm not going to encourage it :)


I think the key is to share what YOU have experienced, not pass on hear-say.


A pilot that was talking negatively to the customer about the company he works for should be fired! It is as simple as that...


Now what is wrong with this? If I can count with my 10 fingers it seems to me that they are offering 10 more days then pilots had before!! What is wrong with that?