good evening gents,

what is the average gross salary a fo may expect? is there any experience extra pay?

thanks

- A 737 type rating is by far better than a 747 type rating and slightly worse than an A320 TR. The market is tight and there are plenty of opportunities for 737 jockeys, like Norwegian or Jet2. By your level of experience, I presume that you are young. I don't see a major crisis in the following three years. Thereby, calm down and think about what you really would like to do. Life is a journey and you must make the most of it.

- According to the rumours, six or seven pilots had resigned in less than two weeks. Nonetheless, I receive farewell emails from colleagues on a weekly basis: a worrisome symptom. The working atmosphere is far from being optimal.

- The next CWA could or could not improve the current working conditions. Nonetheless, this company is not going to be what it was ten years ago. Besides, the Chinese are shareholders of Cargolux. The implications of this are unknown to the employees. If I were you, I would better forget about Cargolux China.

-Take your own decisions. Try to contact by Linkedin to a new joiner to get fresh information about how is life under the new scheme. Be aware of the omissions and inconsistencies of public claims and disclosed compensation.

I wish you luck and all the best, Chris

@final06:

A possible new CWA might be a good point to be considered, you are right. During my research, I only found a statement of the LCGB in the newsletter (01/2016) regarding the changes of the CWA. As far as I can remember there wasn't stated when there will be new CWA negotiations. Do you have any idea when a new CWA (negotiations) will come?
I have read some statements of the LCGB. It seems to me that the CV's management stayed very strong while the union made the compromises (they mentioned a compromise of around 10 million € from their side), especially against new joiners. Furthermore, they said that they finally agreed to the CWA, although they know that there are some important points to be changed and improved. This doesn’t sound like a good union’s work. From this point of view, do you think a new CWA will bring improvements or even more decreasing conditions (and therefore joining as soon as possible would be better, if I finally decide to do so)?

@Aero75

Did you have look on the CV’s webpage? They publish some of their conditions (Unfortunately, I am not allowed to post web-links. But google for “cargolux working conditions”). I don’t know, but I think, these are based on the actual CWA.

CWA -> 3 years
Short version:
Mistakes have been made, but the other union had the majority in the delegation and was legally able to sign the CWA without our consent.
Negotiations starting soon.
Management has 100+ ideas how to bring our conditions further down.
Our own colleagues betraying us while selling their OFF days left, right and center, also in critical times.
New generation not interested in politics.

Did you notice that our profession is in a downward spiral since many years?
Not only our profession, probably everyones in these times of accelerated capitalism and greedy managers.

Final 06,

I had to laugh when I read your last sentences because I totally agree with you. BTW, I think it’s worth to mention that I am not that young anymore (mid 30th), although a started commercial flying a little bit later and therefore lacking a little bit of the “between the lines experience” in this branch. But that’s why I am here and asking questions. The point you raised, that also other branches are going down, can even be extended to the government and all the things that are going wrong in the society at all. But considering the fact nearly every branch in a downward spiral, I think our branch is still on the upper end of the conditions compared to the majority of the other branches. Of course, there are some other jobs and branches, which are better than aviation but if you really want to break the circle at least for yourself, you have to become a “skilled worker” and move to Canada or Australia. And even there, you will have some kind of fight.

If we can change something in our system than only to a very little extent. Therefore, most of us try to make the best out of the situation. That might also explain a little bit why colleagues are selling OFF days. So, where is the difference between the colleagues and the “greedy managers”. And let me honest with you, I did this also two time for longer flight to get the hours, although I am aware about the adverse “political statement”.

If I got it right, the CWA is valid until winter 2018. This matchs may planning to start my application (if I do) during and of this year. Maybe, I will have an idea what coming next with CV.

Another question that is a little bit important for my decision: What is your opinion about an additional job in the office, especially in the safety department? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to become a manager. It’s just because I am interested in the topic of safety and want to have a plan B in case of losing my medical or reducing long-haul flying when getting older (something like 50% office and 50% flying).

However, until now thanks again for the honest replies.

Indeed, there are ample opportunities to work "in the office".
You would fly (and earn) less but the health effects are very positive.
This is why the training department is quite popular - in some cases regardless of qualification.
Safety department has plenty of staff now but is not impossible to achieve.

Good luck to you with your next career moves! :ok:

Is it true Cargolux is adding an additional (ex-)TNT -ERF?

LX-KCV Dunno where the lady's coming from.

LX-KCL, ex OO-THD

roadshow
 

Anybody went to the road show in London Stansted? And how was it?

All of them are the same.

I know who went to Madrid.
They are adding 3 more 747-400 next year.
First year the salary is low,3900 net +1400 per diems, first year. If you have kids the state sponsors each with 300€ per month. Schools in Luxembourg are free. Every year you have an increment in the salary.
But to rent an apartment 2 rooms is quite expensive, so the option maybe to live in Germany, or Belgium, it is 1/2 of the price.
Fly around the world , be prepared for roster changes, sunddenly a business opportunity can appear. Example you’re in VCP, and your roster is VCP-SCL, you may have to go EZE first to load a new cargo before flying to SCL. Sometimes an ACMI operation, charter flights.
Expect to work with various cultures.
Company is not very flexible to swap rosters between colleges. The company offers good opportunities , for the F/O , to do some ground duties. Flight instruction and support.
Traveling facilities , with Cargolux , Luxair and SN BRUSSELS.

Work-to-the-rule in full effect now.

Do you know if there is any bond for the TR?

anybody been for assessment recently? how long between first batch of tests and second interview etc., when are classes planned for?

Yes, bond. I think it was three or four years.

Mollymawk
 

Hi all,

Can anybody tell me how to prepare for the Mollymawk test @ Cargolux?

Thx! :-)

Once you're signed and paid up for it the test includes it's own preparation tests and exams.

Any news of the new CWA. Will they increase the salaries ?

Another question.
Did anyone of you had a lot of flying hours more than 5000 , in Airbus FBW, like 320/330 or 340 and changed to Boeing. What hwere the chalanges that you faced?
Operational Philosofy is completly diferent.

I am curious about it .

Here you can see:

Hahahahaha

Seems there are small improvement for F/O salaries:

Comparing values presented in ROADSHOWS .
In May 1st year 49935 EUR; Cargolux WEBSITE(today Octiber 2018) 51183 EUR;
2nd year 59372 EUR; " " 60856 EUR;
3rd year 62836 EUR; " " 64407 EUR;
4th year 66390 EUR; " " 68050 EUR;
5th year 75927 EUR; " " 77824 EUR;

That's not an improvement.
It's just the Index which was 794.54 and was increased to 814.40
On the same site where you got that info from it says:

I see them advertising for TR DEC's for at least 4 months now. Obviously they are not getting any one to sign up.

Any particular reason ?

Maybe they realise that they are not welcome.
We have enough first officers who can be upgraded.
I do not understand why a company like Cargolux takes DEC's.
As you might understand it pisses off the first officers who are close to their upgrade...

I applied as DEC for the last 2 years and recently was told they definitely do not employ DEC you have to be FO, be interested to see if anyone knows any DECs that joined the company in last few years?
Besides the usual reason for DECs is that the FOs don't have enough hours for the insurance, it has nothing to do with ability.

Thanks.
Could you or anybody else give a rough idea of the roster a new joiner can expect in terms of sequence of days on / off ? and also....is commuting possible / accepted / tolerated ? Thank you.

If the 2015 CWA is the problem, are there any updates to the new CWA because as far as I know the actual one is only valid until end of november? How his the recruitment situation? Has CLX enough applications or are they required to increase the conditions (also considering the very successful financial year 2017) maybe by terminating the B-scale?

nope
 

The current CWA has been extended to August 2019 while negotiations take place.
Recruitment is still ongoing. Reducing the requirements to 1500hrs 10tons etc means they are not short of applications.
People want to jump from business jets or turboprops often getting low salaries, Cargolux is a step up and accept the b scale.

Problem is holding on to them, once they have enough hours they will see better conditions elsewhere and jumpship.

Its my understanding that good financial years mean nothing. They would even like to reduce our vacation days, pension, days off, 13th month, profit share etc.
The negotiations are going to be interesting

...any hint will be appreciated. Thanks

From my experience
expect :
- 6 days off a month fixed, another 3 days floating around wherever they see fit.
- you can commute, your responsibility, but always arrive day before, so you need a hotel or crash pad,
- no travel benefits worth mentioning, since you cant access them for 6 months anyway. and they make it difficult to buy anything and forget bringing anyone with you, impossible
- if you ask for back to backs, which means putting both your 6 and 3 days together, so 9 days off, and 19 days away from home.
but you will be fatigued like hell, or stick 3 vacation days next to your days off bringing it to 12 days off 16 days away.
- work on your off days and vacation days because you're in probation and need to make a good impression that you're a team player and company minded. (they play with this probation hanging over your head, say no, work to rule)
- to be bombarded with roster changes,
- to buy an EASA ftl app to crosscheck your duty and rest limitations because you don't know otherwise.
- to have fun flying an iconic machine, into weird and wonderful destinations, with nice genuine crew, see the world, taste drink and see new cultures. just makes all the bull**** easier to swallow.

Do I believe Cargolux would let you go? No.
Did I mention any threat of termination in my previous post? No.
All I said was, its just expected, (only from what i experienced)
Maybe I should edit my previous post to include:
Its your decision in the end, accept or not. But I've been delayed/rescheduled to work on my days off or vacation, without the courtesy of a phone call or email. Its just there. I called, and said no, and the response I received was " oh? you're not willing to work on your off days to help out?" another call "are you still in probation?" How do you think this makes a new joiner feel?

I have refused to fly in all cases, deadhead home. and I'm still here.

now that you mention sleep .....https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....76f6e0cecd.gif