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The Aerologic's Joke

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The Aerologic's Joke

Old 9th Aug 2020, 08:29
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The Aerologic's Joke

They are a joke.
Last year they invited some guys, type rated and not, who had zero knowledge of German language.
Some of those guys made through the psychometric test, English test, Simulator screening and interview.
It goes without saying that most of them spent a lot of time and money to prepare for the assessment, showing in this way a high level or professionalism and respect for the company they applied for.
During the final interview they were clearly told that German language was no longer a requirement, but the best has yet to come...
...right before their interview a newly formed union had been recognised by the company, and those guys were told that their hiring process was now to be submitted to the union for approval and you may guess what...the union indeed refused the hiring.
The company was then stuck as they did not know how to recover from this stall condition, hence very unprofessionally decided to write the guys that they did a good assessment but they did not have the requirements to be hired (how is it possible that the company called people who did not fulfil requirements?) the same requirements that were waived by the moment they were called in and the same requirements that were no longer required as it was told during the interview.
Needless to say that nobody from the top management was able and brave enough to apologise for the mistake of underestimating their capability to carry forward what was their decision as flight operations management, to hire pilots without German language knowledge and defend this decision with the union, at least for those unfortunate guys who were already called in and assessed.
They demonstrated to everyone that a bunch of guys part of this internal committee rather than a union, are more powerful than the top management and can easily override any decision the management makes.
This management leadership was definitely close to zero.
They showed zero respect for the seriousness and professionalism of the pilots who invested time and money to prepare for the interview.
Everybody can make a mistake but everyone, especially in our job, must be able to recognise and eventually apologise for it, it would have been a huge sign of respect at least, answering to some of the emails that those pilots very politely sent to the management to express their surprise and shock, as none of them could have ever thought that they could ever be victim of such a kind of "scam" in Germany, country of which all those pilots had a very good reputation until then.
Finally it must be noted that all those pilots during the final interview gave the management their availability to study and learn some basic German language, as a sign of gratitude, even though the language was no longer a requirement as per what they were being told during the interview.
Aerologic's management lost the face and aviation is a very small world where "rumours" fly around very quickly.

Signed by.....One of those pilots....

Last edited by bongo bongo; 9th Aug 2020 at 12:07.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 09:15
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Their pay is a worse joke.
I've applied, I had a phone call to have my German level tested and my application is still being processed.
I knew EAT is a better job in LEJ, but I did not know by how much until I got to see the actual numbers of AeroLogic.

Year 1 gross pay is less then my actual net at year 2 at my present company, and to equalise my actual salary I would need 8000 MPA hours.

I leave it to the unfortunate ones that have recently lost their jobs so they can keep current.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 09:33
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I also know of some Austrian pilots, who of course are mother tongue in German, that were bullied during interview because they are not pure "Uber Alles" Germans LOL
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 11:58
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Originally Posted by bongo bongo View Post
I also know of some Austrian pilots, who of course are mother tongue in German, that were bullied during interview because they are not pure "Uber Alles" Germans LOL
I can only imagine the CRM level in the cockpit.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 12:55
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Do I hear the whine of the millenial??

German speaking is and always has been a requirement at Aerologic.
Pay is something you can find on the internet, BEFORE you apply.
People imagining about CRM levels in the cockpit of an airline they know nothing about.
Please..
I don’t fly at Aerologic, but I do recognise “people” I wouldn’t want to have in my company as collegues from these disproportional hateful uninformed statements.
And so did Aerologic obviously.
Good on them!

Last edited by Piscator; 9th Aug 2020 at 14:41.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 13:01
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No, the detailed payscale is not easily available online and their data has been removed from Pilot Jobs Network.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 16:28
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@bongobongo, your story might be true, except for the fact it has been pushed by the union. Aerologic gives a shit about union, if they didn't hire the guys, then it was a management decision.
As far as I know german language was and is still a requirement, austrians are not bullied in Aerologic, there is a big and strong Austrian group in Aerologic since day one.
People join Aerologic because of the big aircraft they fly, if you are a friend of the exLTU group, or of the austrian Group, then you might get a good contract, if not .... your pay is shit.

If you want a decent job in the cargo business, you should apply with the big yellow company, unfortunately hiring is closed at the moment at DHK as well as in EAT.

@Banana Joe, true, pay scale has disappeared, but as you say, it's shit. Probably the one of worst 777 contract in the word.
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 01:23
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Originally Posted by Piscator View Post
Do I hear the whine of the millenial??

German speaking is and always has been a requirement at Aerologic.
Pay is something you can find on the internet, BEFORE you apply.
People imagining about CRM levels in the cockpit of an airline they know nothing about.
Please..
I don’t fly at Aerologic, but I do recognise “people” I wouldn’t want to have in my company as collegues from these disproportional hateful uninformed statements.
And so did Aerologic obviously.
Good on them!
If it has always been a requirement, why did the company invite for the interview many non german speakers?
I'm not saying that it's bad to call only german speakers, i'm just saying that is bad to invite non-german speakers to an interview, tell them that german language is no longer a requirement and then saying the opposite when the union obliged them no to hire those pilots
Maybe it's not clear to you that Aerologic invited those pilots and told them german is no longer a requirement, hence the invitation and then told them the opposite after the interview
i find this behaviour very unprofessional
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 01:28
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Originally Posted by EAM View Post
@bongobongo, your story might be true, except for the fact it has been pushed by the union. Aerologic gives a shit about union, if they didn't hire the guys, then it was a management decision.
As far as I know german language was and is still a requirement, austrians are not bullied in Aerologic, there is a big and strong Austrian group in Aerologic since day one.
People join Aerologic because of the big aircraft they fly, if you are a friend of the exLTU group, or of the austrian Group, then you might get a good contract, if not .... your pay is shit.

If you want a decent job in the cargo business, you should apply with the big yellow company, unfortunately hiring is closed at the moment at DHK as well as in EAT.

@Banana Joe, true, pay scale has disappeared, but as you say, it's shit. Probably the one of worst 777 contract in the word.
EAM i can prove what i'm saying, so tell me what's actually wrong with a management that invite non-german speakers and then decide not to hire them? do they like wasting times?
You should now that by law the Betriebsrat has veto power on the hiring in Germany, and the informations i have is that they denied that hiring, pissing the management off as they lost their face and reputation and could not do anything about it
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 07:29
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I can confirm that:
rosters and hotels are decent
pay is horrible. Absolute shite.

the requirement for German language is stupid. Especially since it is a JV between DHL (then still based at BRU) and Lufti and there is no need to make PA’s.

it’s also one big friendzone. If you happen to know a few persons in there, its much easier to get in. But then you see the pay and you have to ask yourself if you want to be the lowest paid 777 pilot in the western world. in fact, you could make more flying a 30 year old turboprop.

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Old 10th Aug 2020, 10:49
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bongo bongo I am not saying what you say is wrong, I agree with you. If that is the requirement, why do they invite the people? But I know that they invited non german speaking people before and I know that they hired a few non german speaking people. They still give a shit about the union and if the union does not agree, who cares, the legal process would take years.
Anyway, the requirement of speaking german is bullshit, but then, try to get a job in France without speaking french. ;-)

Aeroligic is mainly maid out of exLTU guys and exAustrian/Lauda Air guys, if you are friend of one of those groups its easier and you might get a good contract, but other than that Aerologic is a shitty company, they even offered P2F on 777 for quite a while. And they rather get in one of their DEC friends than upgrading their own FOs.
There are quite some nice guys in there, I know a few, but there are also a lot of big egos.

Ask about Aerologic crews in Leipzig and you will be surprised about the answer that you get from all kinds of people.
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 20:27
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wow...........
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 08:26
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To all the whiners here bashing AeroLogic.
You probably didn't get in for whatever reason. It is human nature to bash and talk down on what you don't get. Reading all your posts you whine about the German requirement, but your english is also lacking. Maybe that is the reason?)
I am the last person to defend the company, but I cannot stand the BS being spilled here.
Pay could always be better, but then go to FedEx and wait until you are at the end of the pay scale.
If you enjoy flying the 30 year old prop, then do it. Fact is AeroLogic is the only company in the world that is hiring on the 777, at least to my knowledge. Of everyone that has left, it seems all of them regret it now.
Direct entry hires get compensated according to their prior experience, some even getting more than people with more than 10 years in the company. Pretty good deal for new hires isn't it?
Everyone I encounter loves the work atmosphere so the comment about CRM seems especially misplaced. As the prior commentator said, many mostly German speaking nationalities here with zero absolutely zero discrimination!
PS. I am not management!!!
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 14:40
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Nobody's bashing, but it's a fact the pay is horrible also when compensated according to experience. I am at year 2 at my current company on a short-haul jet and to get paid at AeroLogic on the 777 what I get at my present company now I would need 8000 hours MPA. That's just rubbish, almost equivalent to P2F. And I am not at FedEx or Cargolux.

I haven't been turned down by AeroLogic, but if I get called to an interview in the future I won't bother. I just did not know how bad it was when I applied, until I was sent the actual payscale.
Attached Files
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 22:04
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Originally Posted by magnum View Post
To all the whiners here bashing AeroLogic.
You probably didn't get in for whatever reason. It is human nature to bash and talk down on what you don't get. Reading all your posts you whine about the German requirement, but your english is also lacking. Maybe that is the reason?)
I am the last person to defend the company, but I cannot stand the BS being spilled here.
Pay could always be better, but then go to FedEx and wait until you are at the end of the pay scale.
If you enjoy flying the 30 year old prop, then do it. Fact is AeroLogic is the only company in the world that is hiring on the 777, at least to my knowledge. Of everyone that has left, it seems all of them regret it now.
Direct entry hires get compensated according to their prior experience, some even getting more than people with more than 10 years in the company. Pretty good deal for new hires isn't it?
Everyone I encounter loves the work atmosphere so the comment about CRM seems especially misplaced. As the prior commentator said, many mostly German speaking nationalities here with zero absolutely zero discrimination!
PS. I am not management!!!
I suggest you to learn reading and understanding principle before writing non-sense like you just did.
Nobody is blaming Aerologic for applying the language requirement, the blaming is because they decided to invite people, who don't know German, for the interview and telling them that knowledge of german was not a requirement anymore, informing and congratulating with them for passing the assessment, also asking those pilots to provide Aerologic the documents required for their hiring, in order to expedite the process, before saying that they did not fulfil the language requirement...how would you call this other than a Joke?
All you read above is not an opinion but facts.
You don't need to mention that you are not management, it's pretty evident, if you were, you would know perfectly that what i just wrote is 100% consistent with what happened ad you would have kept quiet.

To summarise i'm only blaming them for making those pilots waste their time, leave and money.

P.s. you probably also don't know that the management last year was desperate to find pilots with 777 rating and experience and decided to remove the language requirement until they were stopped by the newly formed union which was not even present and/or recognised till then.

Last edited by bongo bongo; 17th Aug 2020 at 09:20.
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Old 25th Aug 2020, 14:20
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Originally Posted by Banana Joe View Post
Nobody's bashing, but it's a fact the pay is horrible also when compensated according to experience. I am at year 2 at my current company on a short-haul jet and to get paid at AeroLogic on the 777 what I get at my present company now I would need 8000 hours MPA. That's just rubbish, almost equivalent to P2F. And I am not at FedEx or Cargolux.

I haven't been turned down by AeroLogic, but if I get called to an interview in the future I won't bother. I just did not know how bad it was when I applied, until I was sent the actual payscale.
Hi! Do you know, even roughly, which taxation is applied to this payscale ? let's pretend to a payment around 50K to 60 K
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Old 25th Aug 2020, 14:59
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You will find many salary calculators for German taxation online, but I would say that for a pilot it's hard to get a proper estimate because probably there perdiems and indemnities involved.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 00:58
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As a ball park use a tax rate of 35% if in the 5 figures gross , but it depends on family status, number of children, deductible commuting costs etc.
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Old 31st Aug 2020, 10:53
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Originally Posted by magnum View Post
Fact is AeroLogic is the only company in the world that is hiring on the 777, at least to my knowledge.
And that is the only reason why people join Aerologic, flying a 777, for their ego.

Originally Posted by magnum View Post
Direct entry hires get compensated according to their prior experience, some even getting more than people with more than 10 years in the company.
Pretty good deal for new hires isn't it?
No its not, you need 9500h to be in year 13 to get the same as an FO year 1 flying a 757 in one of the mother companies.

Its fine if you like it and are happy with Aerologic, anyway, their pay sucks.




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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 14:44
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There’s no point moaning about pay - you know before you go.
They appear to be the only company in Europe recruiting onto Boeings at present , so they’ll be plenty of people willing .
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