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AirLander take off then 2nd Flight Mishap

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AirLander take off then 2nd Flight Mishap

Old 25th Nov 2016, 23:26
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Cannot see this as being the future of air travel. Sorry to break it you.
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Old 26th Nov 2016, 00:18
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The idea has been around for years and no one has made a success of it, so there is little chance now especially in a windy country.
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Old 26th Nov 2016, 00:43
  #323 (permalink)  
 
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At the risk of stating the obvious, you can have a successful product without it necessarily being "the future of air travel".
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Old 26th Nov 2016, 04:06
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not possible to make it solar/electric?
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Old 26th Nov 2016, 06:24
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Well it's got plenty of surface area. Got to be worth looking into.
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Old 26th Nov 2016, 16:13
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Google for the German cargo lifter project, they tried it as well about 15 years ago, and they failed miserably
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Old 4th Dec 2016, 23:12
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I don't think that anyone has mentioned the fact that the slower you go, the less effective the controls are going to be. You end up with zero control at zero speed, and have to rely on the vectored thrust from the engines. Do they rotate to the extent that there is no thrust in a horizontal direction?

Another thought is that the Airlander might have huge problems with centre of pressure travel. Put that alongside controls of limited effect, and some odd attitudes might result.

Especially on landing.

Last edited by Penny Washers; 14th Dec 2016 at 10:18.
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 01:19
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Phd project

Sounds like a great project for a PhD candidate (seriously) : model the behavior of this hybrid beast using the latest CFD (computational fluid dynamics) advances to predict behaviors and suggest software for managing it. Someday we might be using airships to navigate Mars and Titan....modeling the behavior of such a hybrid beast in gusty England might give us some insight.
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 06:54
  #329 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by g109 View Post
Google for the German cargo lifter project, they tried it as well about 15 years ago, and they failed miserably

Chin up old chap, can't let the dastardly hun beat us.


But the UK is much fatter bear in mind...


The Cargolifter (of which I assume you are referring to), is a 'standard' Led Zep bullet/low drag type. The Airlander 'seems' to be relying on the shape for lift more than the engines per se..
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 15:25
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model the behavior of this hybrid beast using the latest CFD (computational fluid dynamics) advances to predict behaviors and suggest software for managing it.
Don't you suppose they've had scores of such doing exactly that for the last decade or more?
How do you imagine it got where it is now - by guesswork and a sliderule?
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Old 11th Dec 2016, 22:09
  #331 (permalink)  
 
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I flew G-BIHN the old 500 series.... there is a good reason the US gave up the Skylander as a bad bet.... airborne and mooching around its fine, and you can coerce it if you wait long enough...... but get it close to the ground and it doesn't want to play at all.... that thing needs a pair of 250ft guide lines on a mini winch - approach airfield, zero speed, winch out, winch in, connect to mast... back to the bar for Gin and medals!!

Best of luck to them but chances of success are close to remote as a commercial operation...

Renting Cardington hanger, staff, development, licensing, let alone marketing or anything else will be a cash burn of circa 1 - 2 mill GBP per annum.... If its not commercial with clients by end of 2017 then I think it will go the same was as most British a/c manufacturing for commercial types... BN / Edgely / Slingsby..... Sorry if you're employed there and wish you the very best success...... but......... it will be an amazing experience if nothing else!!
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Old 11th Dec 2016, 22:47
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Any large buoyant object in the boundary layer is bound to be skittish in a slow sense.

As a simple experiment, the Met Office courses for graduates with 2.1s or Firsts [and the occasional PhD] went into an open field in daylight and launched simultaneously, and tracked, a red balloon, a white balloon and a blue balloon from a short and surveyed base line.

Each was tracked by theodolite. The divergences after a minute were substantial, after 2 minutes were multiples of the baseline. After 5 minutes they were separated by football pich dimensions.

The students then went indoors and were asked what conclusions they came to.
Predictability in the boundary layer is very very poor. Which is part of the reason to employ proper pilots for proper aircraft.
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 00:23
  #333 (permalink)  
 
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It occurs to me that the problems AirLander is having are analogous to those of a large ship trying to dock without the aid of a tugboat or -boats. So, what would the tugboat-analog for an AirLander be, if one is possible at all?

Last edited by PersonFromPorlock; 12th Dec 2016 at 23:34.
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 14:20
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So what has made the US abandon the AirLander before? Limited payload? Flight behavior? Do we know?
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 18:09
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I understood that the withdrawal from Afghanistan left no immediate mission and no likely future one. (Who would want to do that again?)
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 22:56
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Well they certainly didn't seem to be able to land it safely, so I suspect its behavior isn't well understood!
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 23:00
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Isn't it a good thing no one took much notice of such wisdom when the Wright Bros/Codys/Bleriots/Farmans were doing their thing?
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 09:34
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The Wright Bros idea was new, the airship has been around for quite a long time. The Americans, who paid a lot for the development of this vehicle, could not find a use for it and I can not imagine an economic case for something that is slow, unable to carry much, suscetible to weather and difficult to control. Were there any plus points?!
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 10:03
  #339 (permalink)  
 
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Were there any plus points?!
Economics. If your only option to get something heavy but not time critical into a distant remote location is by air, the alternates will cost an arm and a leg. From the bill I had to pay for airlifting a party of 12 plus gear and supplies to a remote African mountain location with a helicopter that was based 200 miles away, I could have purchased a small house back home...
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 10:31
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Capt Scribble

There was a use for it; there was no further use for it once the USA changed it's tactics and before development was complete.
The Wright brothers ideas were not new, they were a development of existing work. Nor were they 'the first.'
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