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Freight Dogs Finally a forum for those midnight prowler types who utilise the unglamorous parts of airports that many of us never get to see. Freight Dogs is for pilots and crew who operate mostly without SLF.

DHL Air UK/LEJ ASSESSMENT

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Old 24th Jan 2018, 15:39
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Anyone else here going for interview at EMA in Januari? I am arriving 30/1 with the interview 31/1. Someone know what to expect from the 1 hour interview?
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 18:06
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Originally Posted by EAM View Post
DHK rosters are quite fatiguing at the moment due to lack of pilots. The rosters are everything,....but easy!
May I ask how this is generally handled in the freight business? It is widely agreed that night work requires sensible roster design to make staff stay focused and long term healthy. Some of the accounts given in the freight dog forum seem to point in another direction though: bad rostering and unnecessary fatiguing of staff. Is this representative? I mean, I have friends that are nurses, bus and subway drivers or railroaders, and their shift work seems to be reasonably managed. I find it hard to believe that a hyper-regulated field like aviation could be less considerate in this regard than other jobs?

After all, this matter is not really a question of preferences, there is hard science on how to do this right as well as how to wreck your staff in no time.
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 19:17
  #103 (permalink)  
EAM
 
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Krautwald, yes night work requires sensible rosters and fatigue risk management.
The problem is like everywhere, if you donīt have enough people to do the job, all this is just on paper. We are heavily under crewed, crewing staff have low or no experience and the fatigue risk management is just a tick in the box.

The new EASA F&D Times donīt really help. People still feel a pressure to complete their duties even they are suffering from fatigue.
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 19:59
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry to hear that.

Undercrewed for cost effect or are you hiring? I still ponder on freight being a possible foot in the door for a slightly old-ish low timer as I will hopefully be. But strategic undercrewing might just be a new normal, for freight is logistics is time is money?
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 23:01
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK - Southwest
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Under-crewing is not intentional, they are hiring a lot right now to address that. Money is not an issue - profits are massive. They put you in 5* hotels and really look after you. There are various part time rosters down to 50%. Regards interview, show a sense of humour and you'll fit in.
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Old 25th Jan 2018, 09:02
  #106 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
Under-crewing is not intentional, they are hiring a lot right now to address that. Money is not an issue - profits are massive. They put you in 5* hotels and really look after you. There are various part time rosters down to 50%. Regards interview, show a sense of humour and you'll fit in.

Awesome, who are you flying for.

Well, we canīt complain about hotels, but we are not staying in 5* hotels and there is bit of a tendency to go for the cheaper ones like Novotel, Penta and Mercure.

The reason why we are under crewed is, we didn't hire for a year and the managers thought it would be fine, but when you are taking on more work and people are leaving, you canīt catch up by just hiring 10-15 people after a year.
People still leaving, still taking on more work, trainers canīt cope with the new hires, commands and the rest of the training.
Doing 3 sectors a night, 5 Days in a row, working up to the 10:30 max FDP.

It is hard work at the moment and people are really struggling with fatigue and their rest. It will hopefully improve for the summer with more people,
but hey, we are working for DHL, everything is possible.
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Old 26th Jan 2018, 10:18
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Btw. how is general experience with low timers going straight to B757 T/R?
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Old 26th Jan 2018, 17:18
  #108 (permalink)  
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Quite fine, not a problem.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 08:32
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Still pondering that fatigue issue. EAM you mention 5 nights in a row. After a week like that, do you get time to recreate? What is the birds eye view on your rosters, say in weeks. Is there a week off after a full week of night work or is it pretty much like a regular job (5-2 days, more or less), just that the work hours are after dark?

If the latter applies, this would make the job similar to those gigs in ports or 24/7 plants, where some people are on a „night only“ crew, and adjust ALL of their lives to being night owls because there simply is no time to readjust. In fact, those people are told to adjust to nights 100% because 2 days off between weeks might just confuse you more if you try to switch to regular daytime activity.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 09:11
  #110 (permalink)  
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We have 2 options, flex roster or fixed roster. On the fixed you work nights only, more or less a 8on 6off. On flex you might occasionally get some days flying and after 6 days working at least 3 off days, usually you will fly around 5-6 days having 3-4 days off, plus maybe a rest day.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 11:40
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Wow, 8-6 is 8 nights in a row? 6 off days probably cant compensate for that long term...

Which one do people prefer in terms of fatigue management? (Other factors like commuting/family not considered).
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 11:47
  #112 (permalink)  
EAM
 
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No, its not 8 nights in a row, you need a 34h rest in between, otherwise it wouldīt work with the EASA rules. You usually do 6 nights with the 34h break somewhere in between.

It depends on peoples need. the 8/6 is perfect for commuting and you have almost a week to recover, on the flex you sometimes just have a trip of 3-4 days.
The nights themselves can be very fatiguing, when you do 3 sectors every night for 3-4 or even 5 days, when you just do 2 sectors a night, it is usually quite ok.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 06:43
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you for explaining.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 18:26
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
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Originally Posted by EAM View Post
No, its not 8 nights in a row, you need a 34h rest in between, otherwise it wouldīt work with the EASA rules. You usually do 6 nights with the 34h break somewhere in between.

It depends on peoples need. the 8/6 is perfect for commuting and you have almost a week to recover, on the flex you sometimes just have a trip of 3-4 days.
The nights themselves can be very fatiguing, when you do 3 sectors every night for 3-4 or even 5 days, when you just do 2 sectors a night, it is usually quite ok.

Depending on how many nights have been worked it is 36 hours / 2 local nights or 60 hours / 2 local nights. Usually this can be done over the weekend when the A/C are in MX.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 19:18
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Alright, so the idea is to let you sleep 2 nights out of the 8-9 nights in your working bloc?

I might try to go freight once I get all exams and hours sorted...do you guys feel that this is a healthy, steady business, or is it very (too?) dependent on the current economy being so busy?

Everybody kind of fears a downturn, but logistics like air freight may be hit real bad, no?
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 23:15
  #116 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by sarnold View Post
Depending on how many nights have been worked it is 36 hours / 2 local nights or 60 hours / 2 local nights. Usually this can be done over the weekend when the A/C are in MX.
That is EASA rules, the 34h is due to a variation approved by the CAA, it has a few different rules on it. But that is DHK only.

DHL is the biggest parcel service in the world, the growth becomes more every year. Yes, I would say it is quite a stable business for the next years.
The night flying can be quite hard, we have people who are only able to sleep 2-3h during the day, so it depends on how you can cope with it.
But then it is quite ok.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 08:09
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by Krautwald View Post
Alright, so the idea is to let you sleep 2 nights out of the 8-9 nights in your working bloc?

I might try to go freight once I get all exams and hours sorted...do you guys feel that this is a healthy, steady business, or is it very (too?) dependent on the current economy being so busy?

Everybody kind of fears a downturn, but logistics like air freight may be hit real bad, no?
DHL can not count the money fast enough, the profit on turn over is a million miles better than for airlines that fly self loading freight around. In a down turn being at DHL would leave me feeling less vulnerable than at virtually any other operator. I am no longer at DHL so hoping we don't have a down turn in the next 16 years.

I don't know if it was true or not but I was told that the first couple of cans cover the cost of the operation and the rest is profit, I seem to recall that the 757 can carry 17 containers.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 08:26
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: uk
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CV is right, freight is here to stay with the increase in internet shopping and just in time logistics. Revenues are so much bigger - consider how many 10kg parcels you can fit in a 757. DHK survived the last recession and now volumes just keep on growing. When I left Thomas Cook for DHK in 2002 there were 5 uk charter airlines, now there are two.

As for fatigue, I don’t miss multiple consecutive night DLM, TFS etc and the difficulty of resting for them in the home environment. Or the massive skewing of the program to the Summer period.

Horses, courses. At least at the moment there’s enough recruiting out there hopefully to make a choice.

AtB
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 10:59
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
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Originally Posted by Council Van View Post
DHL can not count the money fast enough, the profit on turn over is a million miles better than for airlines that fly self loading freight around. In a down turn being at DHL would leave me feeling less vulnerable than at virtually any other operator. I am no longer at DHL so hoping we don't have a down turn in the next 16 years.
In the last economic downturn DHL Air's sister, EAT-DHL made quite a big number of employees redundant. DHL (Air) is not known for its compassion...
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 11:02
  #120 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Tommy Gavin View Post
In the last economic downturn DHL Air's sister, EAT-DHL made quite a big number of employees redundant. DHL (Air) is not known for its compassion...
When was that?
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