Atlas transition from FE to FO
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No rant required
Dumbdumb, I was going to respond, but Firststep beat me to it, thanks again F.S. for being the professional that you are. We (At Atlas) have recalled all of the furloughed pilots, and have just hired 120 new pilots as well. Now that I see you are one our Polar brothers I understand a little better the frustration shown in your post. If you guy's had gotten on the bandwagon from day one, instead of letting Bob and Robin take you down the crimson path, it just maybe would have turned out differently for your pilot group. But that is all water under the bridge at this point. We have had a two-list system from day one here. It has been voted on twice to change it to a single list and was not. (By the way I voted for it and was hired here as an FO and would have lost about 20 numbers) The FE's that hired on here were completely aware of this when they signed their employment contract. The comment I made about getting a job elsewhere was supposed to be a bit of sarcasm.
FR8
FR8
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Fr8Dog,
I think your "just hired 120 new pilots" is VERY inflated. I think they got the interview numbers up to 120 total (3 x 40) this week, but they are only hiring half of them. The second class of 10 new hires just started last week. Ten in a class, every three weeks. The talk is still of only 4 or 5, -400 classes, and one classic class.
I don't remember signing any "employment contract"?
I think your "just hired 120 new pilots" is VERY inflated. I think they got the interview numbers up to 120 total (3 x 40) this week, but they are only hiring half of them. The second class of 10 new hires just started last week. Ten in a class, every three weeks. The talk is still of only 4 or 5, -400 classes, and one classic class.
I don't remember signing any "employment contract"?
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That is the number we have been told.
WhaleDriver
I don't remember signing any "employment contract"?
I don't remember signing any "employment contract"?
When is the last time you were IN a cockpit as a flight crew member at Atlas?
About 5 years right!
FR8
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O.K. this is the last I'll say of it as it's not worth wasting my time on the subject anymore.
It doesn't matter if I was at Polar, Atlas, American, or Mom & Pop Airways. I was only stating that fact that I disagree with two seniority lists. I was hired as an F.O. as well and my number is already in place. Therefore, I wasn't affected by the list, either.
No need to debate the ALPA/Teamster issue as we already know that has been done here.
It doesn't matter if I was at Polar, Atlas, American, or Mom & Pop Airways. I was only stating that fact that I disagree with two seniority lists. I was hired as an F.O. as well and my number is already in place. Therefore, I wasn't affected by the list, either.
No need to debate the ALPA/Teamster issue as we already know that has been done here.
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"Experience"
Some years ago I was involved in training a number of F/E's for the RHS. Their jobs were evaporating and their company provided conversion courses for those able to take them. They were all very experienced operators though results went from one end of the spectrum to the other. However, one quote remains stuck in my mind - "For years I have sat there thinking 'You stupid old @art, why don't you do it this way?'. Now I know why - and I apologise to them all!"
Prober
Prober
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Experience
Prober,
New to this forum. I was at Atlas 95-98 as an FE. Left 3 months before they organized. Saw it coming like a tidal wave. Were you there then? FEs were just upgrading when I left.
New to this forum. I was at Atlas 95-98 as an FE. Left 3 months before they organized. Saw it coming like a tidal wave. Were you there then? FEs were just upgrading when I left.
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Lists?
My Atlas class in May of 1994 had only one list.
My original # was in the nineties, after the arbitrary
two list was forced on us my pilot # was in the fifties.
There was no input solicited from the majority of the
crew force! (for what it's worth)
My original # was in the nineties, after the arbitrary
two list was forced on us my pilot # was in the fifties.
There was no input solicited from the majority of the
crew force! (for what it's worth)
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Just curious....
So for the record, which group and which company is which union? (Man, that's a lot of which's.....) 
Never was a big fan of the Teamsters..... in the 80's, Capitol, yearly furlough during 'slow season', bid lines went from 65 -70 hour average to about 85 average. Go figure........
Never was a big fan of the Teamsters..... in the 80's, Capitol, yearly furlough during 'slow season', bid lines went from 65 -70 hour average to about 85 average. Go figure........
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For prober - post #26
Your post reminded me of a dumb statement made by a sim check airman while I was In FE/FO upgrade years ago . . . . He had said - "After sitting side saddle and watching us do this for the last 1,000 hours, you surly should be doing better" . . . My reply to him was " My daughter plays good concert piano. After watching her play for a thousand hours, you too could be playing good concert piano!"
Your post reminded me of a dumb statement made by a sim check airman while I was In FE/FO upgrade years ago . . . . He had said - "After sitting side saddle and watching us do this for the last 1,000 hours, you surly should be doing better" . . . My reply to him was " My daughter plays good concert piano. After watching her play for a thousand hours, you too could be playing good concert piano!"
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If my memory serves me, we had two elections over the two list issue. The only ones against it were the FEs transitioned/transtioning to FO and the over 60 pilots who moved to the back or soon to be over 60 pilots that couldn't get a seat because the professional FEs were protected by the 2 seat list. Atlas promised the PFEs that they wouldn't be displaced by over-60 pilots and the crew force respected this promise. Maybe its wrong, but that was the promise and it was one of the few that was kept at Atlas.
Thread Starter
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So I'm guessing the only problem with the FE moving to the RT seat on the 400 is IN FACT a scheduling issue. Not an FAR or ICAO issue, but a scheduling issue. Because he can't hold IRO until he /she has a ATP....
Phewww. Next time I'll just say... "So how are things at Atlas?" and then let the b1thching commence....
Phewww. Next time I'll just say... "So how are things at Atlas?" and then let the b1thching commence....
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Dutch74,
The scheduling issue isn't really a problem as all new hires must have the prerequisite time to get a type rating and serve as IRO the first day on the line. Atlas had hired pilots in the past with low time whom initially were not able to get IRO qualified. All of those pilot have since gotten their type rating after about a year. Atlas No longer hires pilots that will NOT be able to get a type rating and serve as IRO after initial training. So only recent FE to pilot transitions lack experience to get the IRO qualification immediately. There are maybe 10 of these folks amongst 500 pilots.
That being said, since the Classic is a 3 person crew, it isn't until the flight time exceeds 12 hours that a relief pilot is needed and even then based on the numbers above, it would be EXTREMELY rare to have two Classic FO's that are NOT IRO qualified in an augmented crew.
More importantly, given an option, I think it makes a lot of sense to make a Classic FE a Classic FO for his first right seat job. He knows the plane, he knows the crews and he gets roughly half the landings (or more if the Captain is generous). Atlas -400 pilots almost always fly 3 or 4 pilot crews. One or two takeoffs/landings a month is hardly a place to get "stick time" and GAIN proficiency. Why put the additional difficulty of putting that FE into an unfamiliar cockpit when there is already enough stress of the transition?
When pilot hiring recently resumed, Atlas FE's both active and furloughed were given head of the line privileges before hiring commenced. I believe 6 or 8 people are now in training for the right seat. The offer for preferential hiring remains for all Atlas FE's both active and furloughed once the minimums set by the company and agreed to by the union are met.
I hope this helps.
ACP
The scheduling issue isn't really a problem as all new hires must have the prerequisite time to get a type rating and serve as IRO the first day on the line. Atlas had hired pilots in the past with low time whom initially were not able to get IRO qualified. All of those pilot have since gotten their type rating after about a year. Atlas No longer hires pilots that will NOT be able to get a type rating and serve as IRO after initial training. So only recent FE to pilot transitions lack experience to get the IRO qualification immediately. There are maybe 10 of these folks amongst 500 pilots.
That being said, since the Classic is a 3 person crew, it isn't until the flight time exceeds 12 hours that a relief pilot is needed and even then based on the numbers above, it would be EXTREMELY rare to have two Classic FO's that are NOT IRO qualified in an augmented crew.
More importantly, given an option, I think it makes a lot of sense to make a Classic FE a Classic FO for his first right seat job. He knows the plane, he knows the crews and he gets roughly half the landings (or more if the Captain is generous). Atlas -400 pilots almost always fly 3 or 4 pilot crews. One or two takeoffs/landings a month is hardly a place to get "stick time" and GAIN proficiency. Why put the additional difficulty of putting that FE into an unfamiliar cockpit when there is already enough stress of the transition?
When pilot hiring recently resumed, Atlas FE's both active and furloughed were given head of the line privileges before hiring commenced. I believe 6 or 8 people are now in training for the right seat. The offer for preferential hiring remains for all Atlas FE's both active and furloughed once the minimums set by the company and agreed to by the union are met.
I hope this helps.
ACP
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Hey guys, there seem to be a few of you that are working currently in Atlas and have a grip on the pulse of whats going on, so if you dont mind I have a couple of questions. Im currently in the Middle East and applied to Atlas about 2 weeks ago, I have done as much of my homework as I can about the life style and QOL and fits right into what I want in long term Airline.
What I would like to know is how long is it usually between sending your resume and hearing something (if anything) back? Is there anything that sets you apart in the stacks of applicants? Is there a number floating around as to how many more FO positions they are looking to fill?
Thanks for the help!
What I would like to know is how long is it usually between sending your resume and hearing something (if anything) back? Is there anything that sets you apart in the stacks of applicants? Is there a number floating around as to how many more FO positions they are looking to fill?
Thanks for the help!
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Hey guys, there seem to be a few of you that are working currently in Atlas and have a grip on the pulse of whats going on, so if you dont mind I have a couple of questions. Im currently in the Middle East and applied to Atlas about 2 weeks ago, I have done as much of my homework as I can about the life style and QOL and fits right into what I want in long term Airline.
What I would like to know is how long is it usually between sending your resume and hearing something (if anything) back? Is there anything that sets you apart in the stacks of applicants? Is there a number floating around as to how many more FO positions they are looking to fill?
Thanks for the help!
What I would like to know is how long is it usually between sending your resume and hearing something (if anything) back? Is there anything that sets you apart in the stacks of applicants? Is there a number floating around as to how many more FO positions they are looking to fill?
Thanks for the help!
My following comments are based upon comments made by our VP of Flight Ops at a fairly recent (few months ago) crew meeting.
In light of the Buffalo Colgan Air crash, he really doesn't want to expose his dept to any potential training problems. Therefore the "bar is set high" (his words).
Previous heavy international experience with an internal recommendation and previous military service will probably set you apart.
The VP said he's looking to hire a 60/40 mix of military/civilian pilots.
The previous heavy jet time and letter of recommendation seem to weigh more than the military experience, from what I can see.
I have no idea how long to wait for a response.
The chief pilot advises to keep updating your application on a regular basis--"be persistent, but not a PITA."
Good luck.
