Atlas/AABO
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 57
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From: San Diego, CA., USA
CR2
Can we take it a step further? Did the American Chief Pilot get 15, 30, 45 days notice and pay incentives when he was asked to leave? My heartburn is with the EU employment rules when working with a US company and are not reciprocal when things are reversed.
bpp
Can we take it a step further? Did the American Chief Pilot get 15, 30, 45 days notice and pay incentives when he was asked to leave? My heartburn is with the EU employment rules when working with a US company and are not reciprocal when things are reversed.
bpp
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 216
Likes: 1
From: United States
CR2 wrote:
Atlas mainline has non-American passport holders working in the group. AACS/AABO has Americans. The issues are not about nationality, they are about the structure.
Should he have been thrown out for being American?
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 238
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From: Planet Earth
Well said 742.
The organization/group known as AABO was formed solely as a deterrent to organized labor. Started within weeks of Atlas voting a union in. The issue has never been a Euro/American hate fest. As a matter of fact, AABO has shafted a number of non-US guys along with US guys on continued employment and upgrades at mainline.
CR2,
Not to start an new argument and I don't have the numbers to back this up, but I see far more Europeans flying for US companies than I see Americans flying for European companies in my trolling around the world the last 25 years.
The organization/group known as AABO was formed solely as a deterrent to organized labor. Started within weeks of Atlas voting a union in. The issue has never been a Euro/American hate fest. As a matter of fact, AABO has shafted a number of non-US guys along with US guys on continued employment and upgrades at mainline.
CR2,
Not to start an new argument and I don't have the numbers to back this up, but I see far more Europeans flying for US companies than I see Americans flying for European companies in my trolling around the world the last 25 years.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: home
hi guys,
the rumour that every AABO is getting a fresh PC is simply not true!!!!!!!
some are lucky that they have to go to mia in the last couple month of employment.and all mainline guys have the right to be recalled when things getting better.AABO pilots will be terminated with no chance to come back.
the rumour that every AABO is getting a fresh PC is simply not true!!!!!!!
some are lucky that they have to go to mia in the last couple month of employment.and all mainline guys have the right to be recalled when things getting better.AABO pilots will be terminated with no chance to come back.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 238
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From: Planet Earth
Asked that of an AABO guy in a May recurrent class, which is his base month. Not sure how that worked out since he would be good till the end of June and he was in a May recurrent class at the time in MIA. Maybe he is on Richard R.'s good list.
Hope your right though. Less salt in the wounds of the furloughed Atlas Mainline guys that are scheduled for furlough at the end of May and I want to actually see a conclusion to this one problem among the many at Atlas.
Hope your right though. Less salt in the wounds of the furloughed Atlas Mainline guys that are scheduled for furlough at the end of May and I want to actually see a conclusion to this one problem among the many at Atlas.
Last edited by nitty-gritty; 30th May 2009 at 00:21.
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 243
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From: USA
From 747drivers
"the rumour that every AABO is getting a fresh PC is simply not true!!!!!!!"
What ever you say, I will not argue with someone that has been here as long as you have. You obviously have the inside scoop.
Why do I continue to
"the rumour that every AABO is getting a fresh PC is simply not true!!!!!!!"
What ever you say, I will not argue with someone that has been here as long as you have. You obviously have the inside scoop.
Why do I continue to
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14
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From: Tfirma
Just glad the nightmare is almost over. Let this teach a lesson to our current union so that this mistake does not happen EVER again!
Don't feel bad for the aabos they all got more 747 PIC time, and made at least 350,000 more than some 12 year Atlas FOs. Talk about lost income, and career expectations.
Don't feel bad for the aabos they all got more 747 PIC time, and made at least 350,000 more than some 12 year Atlas FOs. Talk about lost income, and career expectations.
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 42
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From: Kalifornia
Furloughs
14 more furloughs announced. I think that puts it at 62 of us on the street now. It will be interesting to see how muddy the waters get after the combined Polar/Atlas contract is signed. There are pilots at Polar who are junior to some Atlas pilots. What a mess!!!
I miss the big bird, but this is a crash course in the realities of life in the airlines.
I miss the big bird, but this is a crash course in the realities of life in the airlines.
Joined: Nov 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 30
From: Texas
Nitty,
You can't use the "grace month" without having recurrent. If the base month is May and the company planned on skipping recurrent since he'll be gone in June, when you do the look back, everything in June would be illegal since there was no training/checking within the last the last 6/12.
You can't use the "grace month" without having recurrent. If the base month is May and the company planned on skipping recurrent since he'll be gone in June, when you do the look back, everything in June would be illegal since there was no training/checking within the last the last 6/12.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 238
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From: Planet Earth
Have seen the tactic used at Atlas, Evergreen and at others. I don't think that would keep a guy from a furlough or termination just because he is in his grace month when he was canned.
Good or bad, it has been done in the past. With the FAA, I've notice they rather spend time chasing crewmembers (easier prey) rather than getting the airline to comply with regulations. Companies usually tap dance when called to the mat and come up with a "new program" to stop the problem which makes the FAA happy. We as crewmembers just get violated.
Good or bad, it has been done in the past. With the FAA, I've notice they rather spend time chasing crewmembers (easier prey) rather than getting the airline to comply with regulations. Companies usually tap dance when called to the mat and come up with a "new program" to stop the problem which makes the FAA happy. We as crewmembers just get violated.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 97
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From: USA
TimeOnTarget
January 17, 2009
"Beav
The guys at Atlas are finding out that the "no bump no flush" they were so happy about is a double edged sword. It cuts both ways."
Posted in January and even more true today.
January 17, 2009
"Beav
The guys at Atlas are finding out that the "no bump no flush" they were so happy about is a double edged sword. It cuts both ways."
Posted in January and even more true today.
Joined: Nov 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 30
From: Texas
I think it's a matter of being planned. If someone turned 60/65 in their grace month it's not like you couldn't figure this out in advance. Same thing for furloughs planned for a couple months.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 222
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From: US
I think it's a matter of being planned. If someone turned 60/65 in their grace month it's not like you couldn't figure this out in advance. Same thing for furloughs planned for a couple months.
Joined: Nov 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 30
From: Texas
There is a Nov of 71 Chief Counsel intrepretation that is the FAA's final word on the subject. Unfortunately their online stuff only goes back to 1990 and my books only go back to 1975.
From references in later questions, it looks like there have been a couple views in the FAA. It was an issue at a prior job with someone reaching 60 in their grace month. It came down to if you did a look back after his last flight, when was the last PC and ground school? If it was more than 12 months from the last flight, that was a problem.
From references in later questions, it looks like there have been a couple views in the FAA. It was an issue at a prior job with someone reaching 60 in their grace month. It came down to if you did a look back after his last flight, when was the last PC and ground school? If it was more than 12 months from the last flight, that was a problem.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 222
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From: US
121.401 Training program: General.
(a) Each certificate holder shall:
.....
(b) Whenever a crewmember or aircraft dispatcher who is required to take recurrent training, a flight check, or a competence check, takes the check or completes the training in the calendar month before or after the calendar month in which that training or check is required, he is considered to have taken or completed it in the calendar month in which it was required.
(a) Each certificate holder shall:
.....
(b) Whenever a crewmember or aircraft dispatcher who is required to take recurrent training, a flight check, or a competence check, takes the check or completes the training in the calendar month before or after the calendar month in which that training or check is required, he is considered to have taken or completed it in the calendar month in which it was required.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 59
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From: USA
Dying profession, YES. Excess pay??, go ahead and walk in their shoes. As an Engineer upgrade myself, I was fortunate enough to be in a position to acquire my ratings, at considerable expense. Not everyone is as fortunate in available funds or time.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 287
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From: KLAX
"should have gotten a Pilot's license"
A few of the Polar FE's did have their pilot's license's and ratings, but not all were chosen to upgrade. One of those left behind even had a type rating. . . . A committee of one decided their upgrade selections if that says anything.