Polar/Atlas The Saga Continues
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Well that much is all old news. Last time I checked PIK was in Scotland. Even Cato isn't powerful enough to move it to Ireland. 
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If anyone has ever check out where the A/C are currently coming from, you will note that a large number of them come from some leasing company created by some Atlas Air World Wide subsidiary or a sub-subsidiary of such since inception. Usually done for tax reasons, upstreaming income offshore, and minimizing liability. If they create a new one, it does not really change anything labor wise. It's just a new one to the existing fold of leasing companies that own the A/C. Neither the Atlas or Polar labor contracts have any really good ties to the A/C in number scope wise.
I do remember R. Shuyler (sp?) a number of years ago making a point of publicly asking the board of directors during labor contract negotiations if they should go to dry leasing only to put some leverage on negotiations.
If they want to do that now, there is nothing labor can do about it in it's existing labor state at Polar/Atlas. Doing dry leasing is not really a big money maker compared to wet leasing. Profit being the chief motivator will probably rule, but they have moved A/C to make a point with labor. Such as A/C moved to GSS, Tradewinds, Focus, Polar and Atlas back and fourth.
I do remember R. Shuyler (sp?) a number of years ago making a point of publicly asking the board of directors during labor contract negotiations if they should go to dry leasing only to put some leverage on negotiations.
If they want to do that now, there is nothing labor can do about it in it's existing labor state at Polar/Atlas. Doing dry leasing is not really a big money maker compared to wet leasing. Profit being the chief motivator will probably rule, but they have moved A/C to make a point with labor. Such as A/C moved to GSS, Tradewinds, Focus, Polar and Atlas back and fourth.
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Nitty
So despite all the ranting to the contrary on this and many previous threads, there are no Atlas aircraft for Polar to take away, or Polar aircraft for Atlas to take away. Just pawn aircraft to be used in the ongoing AAWH labor shell game.
So despite all the ranting to the contrary on this and many previous threads, there are no Atlas aircraft for Polar to take away, or Polar aircraft for Atlas to take away. Just pawn aircraft to be used in the ongoing AAWH labor shell game.
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Many here confuse "the flying" vs A/C and how both can easily be re-branded/moved to fit managements desires to shaft labor. It's been done to the Atlas and Polar labor forces back and forth. Probably why getting on with a merger now would be helpful for us and any subsequent companies formed to circumvent labor in the AAWW group. That's possible for the US based companies, the overseas ones like GSS are a different story with current US law.
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I'm curious as to why the Polar MEC failed to respond in a timely fashion on the fate of the Polar FE's. Was it some kind of tactic? Would be interested on the Polar MEC spin on it if they disclose it to you.
Anyhow, here is the Atlas MEC side of it in their weekly VARS:
Audio in WMA format
Text version link
Anyhow, here is the Atlas MEC side of it in their weekly VARS:
Audio in WMA format
Text version link
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.....and did he also tell the membership it was sent too late. Bobb missed the deadline. And did you all note that it was not a response but another attempt to delay the process by asking questions etc.
Last edited by Beaver_Driver; 16th Jul 2008 at 20:48.
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What I noticed was a counter proposal. Deadline? Was there a time on it? If so I guess I missed that part of the deal.
Do you really think this letter was going to come to fruition? I didn't. There was no way in hell anything was going to happen here. Cato knew Polar would counter and now he looks good by offering jobs (albeit not to all) F.E.'s. Ohh, how you can spin things I can see it now: Look Mr. Arbitrator I tried to help them out but as you can see they don't want it. They want to fight. See? Look at this letter I sent. Isn't it nice?
Then the company gets their way and wins the grievance, doesn't pay the F.E's didly squat and kicks the rest on the street. THEN . . . he'll blame the Polar MEC for doing such a thing.
Oh well . . .
Do you really think this letter was going to come to fruition? I didn't. There was no way in hell anything was going to happen here. Cato knew Polar would counter and now he looks good by offering jobs (albeit not to all) F.E.'s. Ohh, how you can spin things I can see it now: Look Mr. Arbitrator I tried to help them out but as you can see they don't want it. They want to fight. See? Look at this letter I sent. Isn't it nice?
Then the company gets their way and wins the grievance, doesn't pay the F.E's didly squat and kicks the rest on the street. THEN . . . he'll blame the Polar MEC for doing such a thing.
Oh well . . .
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Yes there was a deadline. Read the initial letter from Cato. You will see that any counter-proposal, especially one at the last minute, would be seen for what it was in this case. A simple delaying tactic. Too bad Mr Henderson is using the Polar crewmembers for his own agenda.
Last edited by Beaver_Driver; 17th Jul 2008 at 06:16.
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How did the Polar MEC put it once, "It's just collateral damage."
I'm sure the FE's appreciate that.
I don't think Mr. Cato was required to offer anything. That being said, I'm not stupid enough to think that he was being magnanimous with the offer. At the same time, I think that the Polar MEC did a good job of helping the FE's out the door without realistically examining the options with the last minute theatrics at the expense of the FE's.
We at Atlas have had a few of these similar situations during the past "whip-sawing" events. Some offers we could negotiate with to some resolution and some we couldn't. We didn't wait to the last minute to work it out and knew what we had and what we didn't have to negotiate with.
I'm sure the FE's appreciate that.
I don't think Mr. Cato was required to offer anything. That being said, I'm not stupid enough to think that he was being magnanimous with the offer. At the same time, I think that the Polar MEC did a good job of helping the FE's out the door without realistically examining the options with the last minute theatrics at the expense of the FE's.
We at Atlas have had a few of these similar situations during the past "whip-sawing" events. Some offers we could negotiate with to some resolution and some we couldn't. We didn't wait to the last minute to work it out and knew what we had and what we didn't have to negotiate with.
Last edited by nitty-gritty; 17th Jul 2008 at 06:04.
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Well, Nitty . . .sad but true but yes, I think it's going to be bad news on the Polar side pretty quick. I won't point fingers but I will say that it's going to hit the fan . . . just a matter of when.
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I find it amazing that the Atlas crew members are so cognizant of the Polar MEC intentions. Must be that direct line to Cato that they so enjoy because I have yet to hear one disparaging word from any FE or pilot at Polar. Gosh, I wish I had your insight.
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Anyhow . . . Cato may have agreed to a broader offer of Polar's FE employment if it were not for his pissing contest with Bob H . . . Oh how Cato just loves telling Bobby H where to pound sand!
Although the Atlas MEC did not have a chance to factor in yet, I wonder - how would they have responded? (especually considering that Polar appeared to be holding the shorter end of the stick.)
Although the Atlas MEC did not have a chance to factor in yet, I wonder - how would they have responded? (especually considering that Polar appeared to be holding the shorter end of the stick.)
Last edited by L-38; 18th Jul 2008 at 18:25.
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Came out today in an Atlas VARS the original management proposal, the late Polar counter offer and some pretty informative email traffic back and forth. I'll put the first two up. Don't think I'll do the email one. Not sure if the Polar guys got to look at the original proposal looking at the previous posts and hearing stuff from Polar guys on the line sounded wildly different than what I read.
Polar Fleet Reduction Management offer in PDF
The late Polar MEC Response in PDF
Polar Fleet Reduction Management offer in PDF
The late Polar MEC Response in PDF
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BobbRobbin continue to be a piece of work. Every time I think I've seen it all, they top themselves.
First and foremost, their counter is total BS and is designed as showpiece to their members of how hard their working for them? There is no way in Heck the Atlas MEC would have agreed to this and they know it. "Extremely fair"....give me a break! That's beyond the fact that they dated it the 14th but sent it after emails dated the 15th ....continued total BS.
This is another example of them trying to override the system and/or impress their members with their moxie. They are the perceived winners in the seniority arbitration, yet they continue to try and navigate around the award with improvements, all to the detriment of the people they're suppose to merge with. They've just added to the ways to separate the pilot groups, even more than Cato could have dreamt up.
Let me make clear, it is none of my business that they accepted/declined the original proposal as is. It just bothers me that my friends over at Polar are completed buffaloed by these guys.
What should bother the Polaroids is the email trail on the 14/15th, then say in a VARS that they responded on the 14th is an outright lie. We've told you, they have a habit of that, just that no Polaroids will believe it. Well I say that, but having spoken to a couple Polar FE's lately, they are starting to have their doubts?
First and foremost, their counter is total BS and is designed as showpiece to their members of how hard their working for them? There is no way in Heck the Atlas MEC would have agreed to this and they know it. "Extremely fair"....give me a break! That's beyond the fact that they dated it the 14th but sent it after emails dated the 15th ....continued total BS.
This is another example of them trying to override the system and/or impress their members with their moxie. They are the perceived winners in the seniority arbitration, yet they continue to try and navigate around the award with improvements, all to the detriment of the people they're suppose to merge with. They've just added to the ways to separate the pilot groups, even more than Cato could have dreamt up.
Let me make clear, it is none of my business that they accepted/declined the original proposal as is. It just bothers me that my friends over at Polar are completed buffaloed by these guys.
What should bother the Polaroids is the email trail on the 14/15th, then say in a VARS that they responded on the 14th is an outright lie. We've told you, they have a habit of that, just that no Polaroids will believe it. Well I say that, but having spoken to a couple Polar FE's lately, they are starting to have their doubts?