getting shippers to declare DGR (and to think....)
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getting shippers to declare DGR (and to think....)
another normal day in the forwarder's office today:
client manufacturing semi-con equipment calls up today and books 15 tons of return machinery and spares (general cargo) to the u.s. west coast. sprinig cleaning of dead stock, i guess....
goods get back to the airport warehouse (i happen to be there) and note one crate damaged whilst unloading.
we dump the crate (a good 1 x 1 x 1 meters) onto the scale and the scale shoots through the roof at 1945kgs.....bit on the dense side and hence has us slightly puzzled.
no markings, etc which could have us trace this crate on the commercial invoice to figure out what kind of goods they are.
call to client clarifies that it is a magnet(of course not accompanied by dgr forms, not mentioned at the time of booking)
probing a bit further about what they think would happen if they held their good rolex to it (or put it close to electronic avionics / radar / etc) we get them thinking into the right direction.
dgr forms filled, seperate awb cut and off it goes, but not after a handful of asian carriers flat out refused to accept the booking saying that they do not carry magnets on their freighters.
had me a bit puzzled (but discussing DGR with even senior staff at some carriers is useless) as in my book dangerous goods are not really dangerous unless they are not declared or wrongly handled (read loaded in the case of the magnet).
these carriers actually 'invite' you to not declare the dangerous goods, as otherwise they would not carry them.
client manufacturing semi-con equipment calls up today and books 15 tons of return machinery and spares (general cargo) to the u.s. west coast. sprinig cleaning of dead stock, i guess....
goods get back to the airport warehouse (i happen to be there) and note one crate damaged whilst unloading.
we dump the crate (a good 1 x 1 x 1 meters) onto the scale and the scale shoots through the roof at 1945kgs.....bit on the dense side and hence has us slightly puzzled.
no markings, etc which could have us trace this crate on the commercial invoice to figure out what kind of goods they are.
call to client clarifies that it is a magnet(of course not accompanied by dgr forms, not mentioned at the time of booking)
probing a bit further about what they think would happen if they held their good rolex to it (or put it close to electronic avionics / radar / etc) we get them thinking into the right direction.
dgr forms filled, seperate awb cut and off it goes, but not after a handful of asian carriers flat out refused to accept the booking saying that they do not carry magnets on their freighters.
had me a bit puzzled (but discussing DGR with even senior staff at some carriers is useless) as in my book dangerous goods are not really dangerous unless they are not declared or wrongly handled (read loaded in the case of the magnet).
these carriers actually 'invite' you to not declare the dangerous goods, as otherwise they would not carry them.
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Magnetized should not be a problem, (as long as properly declared). Carriers have varying restrictions as to where MAG can be loaded on the aircraft.
Give CLX a call to move your magnet. No problems for us.
Give CLX a call to move your magnet. No problems for us.
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thanks cr2 and icarus,
clx and dlh would not have a problem with it, and neither did sia in the end.
i did not see this as being a problem, what just really got me up the wall was again the ignorance of the shipper.....
clx and dlh would not have a problem with it, and neither did sia in the end.
i did not see this as being a problem, what just really got me up the wall was again the ignorance of the shipper.....
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That reminds me of the forwarder who 'forgot' to declare the DGR he put on board of one of our's... He was one of those who did the 'known shipper' courses, so no acceptance check was needed. At destination his packages leaked some unknown stuff (the airport fire brigade's chemical officer did trace it as something corrosive and flameable), which prompted an evacuation of the airplane and the general surroundings. It was then cleaned and the authorities informed, who then informed the loacl authorities of the forwarder (happened to be SIN). These guys revoked his known shipper license and they closed down for uncompetiveness.
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Does anyone know what type of nasty stuff leaked in the MAS A330, causing it to be written off? I asked our freight man in JFK, and he thought it was Mercury. Can anyone confirm?
On the subject of DG, does anyone have any input on whether Main Deck hazardous stuff (e.g. Inflammable, explosive or corrosive) should be loaded so that the crew have access to it in flight?
This is one of my constant complaints, and a source of endless pissing contests with the Cargo Department. They seem to think that unless the stuff is CAO, then it can go anywhere, and with no access.
My point is that on a pax aircraft it is loaded underfloor, so it will be in in a compartment with fire detection/protection, or sealed. On a freighter main deck the only fire protection is the crew, and that doesn't work if stuff is inaccessible......
On the subject of DG, does anyone have any input on whether Main Deck hazardous stuff (e.g. Inflammable, explosive or corrosive) should be loaded so that the crew have access to it in flight?
This is one of my constant complaints, and a source of endless pissing contests with the Cargo Department. They seem to think that unless the stuff is CAO, then it can go anywhere, and with no access.
My point is that on a pax aircraft it is loaded underfloor, so it will be in in a compartment with fire detection/protection, or sealed. On a freighter main deck the only fire protection is the crew, and that doesn't work if stuff is inaccessible......
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DGR PAX does not have to be accessible. End of story. (Do you really want to access the radioective stuff?).
CAO (except radioactive) must be accessible.
As you mentioned, on a pax aircraft, the stuff is anyhow underfloor/inaccessible.
What kind of aircraft are you flying? I would ask some questions about your cargo compartment "Class"....
CAO (except radioactive) must be accessible.
As you mentioned, on a pax aircraft, the stuff is anyhow underfloor/inaccessible.
What kind of aircraft are you flying? I would ask some questions about your cargo compartment "Class"....
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Ref the question about DG accessibility. I fly MD11F, and my point about the cargo on the main deck is that if it catches fire, the only means of fighting it is two portable extinguishers with a lance, stowed in the Galley area. The lance is about 5 feet long, and as the main deck is about 150 feet long, the only pallets that this can reach are the forward ones. A fire on the rest of the main deck could only be fought by someone going aft with a fire extinguisher, which is impossible unless access is provided.
I know what the ICAO regs say, and IMHO they are inadequate. I am trying to get the company to be more restrictive, but the bean counters won't listen. I'm trying to find out if other carriers have more restrictive rules, then I have some Ammo.
I know what the ICAO regs say, and IMHO they are inadequate. I am trying to get the company to be more restrictive, but the bean counters won't listen. I'm trying to find out if other carriers have more restrictive rules, then I have some Ammo.
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Ramp Tramp. Yep, thanks. Class 6 CAO in the belly?
As a practical matter, we do generally have all DG accessible. Apart from anything else, its easier to account for.
We'll take DG/PAX in the lowerdecks if there's no other way around it. This is a rare enough occurence, with the exception of cars. Class 7 into the rear belly, size/weight permitting.
Airlines do make up their own more restrictive rules. Have a look at Operator Variations towards the front of IATA DGR.
As a practical matter, we do generally have all DG accessible. Apart from anything else, its easier to account for.
We'll take DG/PAX in the lowerdecks if there's no other way around it. This is a rare enough occurence, with the exception of cars. Class 7 into the rear belly, size/weight permitting.
Airlines do make up their own more restrictive rules. Have a look at Operator Variations towards the front of IATA DGR.
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Further to the discussion on accessibility in flight, generally speaking the IATA DGR requires that, with some exceptions, CAO shipments must be accessible in flight.
Common sense says that I really do not want to be too close to Classes 6 or 7 (infectious, poisonous, and radioactive to the uninformed bean counters). With those exceptions, it is good and safe policy to have access to Dangerous Goods in flight. A 5 foot lance is all very well when the problem is just behind the barrier net but when it's "further afield" then you are in fertiliser country without a paddle!
Arrange a fam trip for the bean counter on your aircraft and, during flight (preferably at least 2 hours into an oceanic sector), express "grave" concern about some inaccessible "OK Pax aircraft" DG shipments.
Fear brings about a whole new set of opinions! He/she will have a more enlightened regard for safety and while you
have his/her undivided attention, explain the slogan "Safety is no accident".
Works every time! Oh, and by the way, suggest that the bean counter brings along a change of underwear. Could be useful!
Common sense says that I really do not want to be too close to Classes 6 or 7 (infectious, poisonous, and radioactive to the uninformed bean counters). With those exceptions, it is good and safe policy to have access to Dangerous Goods in flight. A 5 foot lance is all very well when the problem is just behind the barrier net but when it's "further afield" then you are in fertiliser country without a paddle!
Arrange a fam trip for the bean counter on your aircraft and, during flight (preferably at least 2 hours into an oceanic sector), express "grave" concern about some inaccessible "OK Pax aircraft" DG shipments.
Fear brings about a whole new set of opinions! He/she will have a more enlightened regard for safety and while you
have his/her undivided attention, explain the slogan "Safety is no accident".
Works every time! Oh, and by the way, suggest that the bean counter brings along a change of underwear. Could be useful!
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One of my colleagues asked if there were any dango on board because he had not been given a notoc but had seen a radioactive placard on one of the containers.He was told no radio active.After creating a big noise the ground agent appologised and said actually 3.5Kg depleted uranium but not to worry.Because he made further enquiries he actually found that it was 3.5Kg uranium but packed in 4000Kg lead container! So not only
dango mistake but 4 extra tonnes of cargo which had not appeared on loadsheet.Anybody out there found that when the notoc arrives very late it usually signals an error of some significence.Be safe, be suspicious dogs.
dango mistake but 4 extra tonnes of cargo which had not appeared on loadsheet.Anybody out there found that when the notoc arrives very late it usually signals an error of some significence.Be safe, be suspicious dogs.
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parcelpuppy
With many DGS, there's a lot of different opinions. Personally I'd rather keep them, size, weight and quantity allowing, within reach of some sort of extinguisher. But some stuff, as has been already stated, you don,t want to be too close to! My personal view is, if a package within the (rear) hold, for some reason did "let go", potentially 33,000 ft over the deep blue stuff, would it be to your advantage to be able to do something?Has any of you guys had, or heard of instances?
ULD placards. I've seen them with Haz and weight tags on from previous flights. Nobody took them off!
With many DGS, there's a lot of different opinions. Personally I'd rather keep them, size, weight and quantity allowing, within reach of some sort of extinguisher. But some stuff, as has been already stated, you don,t want to be too close to! My personal view is, if a package within the (rear) hold, for some reason did "let go", potentially 33,000 ft over the deep blue stuff, would it be to your advantage to be able to do something?Has any of you guys had, or heard of instances?
ULD placards. I've seen them with Haz and weight tags on from previous flights. Nobody took them off!
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In the current IATA DGR, go to Section 9.3.4 and you will get the rules as currectly applied. However, if at all possible it is good practice to try to make all DG accessible with obvious exceptions like infectious and toxic.
Quoting the slogan of the ADF (American Dispatcher's Federation) "Safety is no accident"
Quoting the slogan of the ADF (American Dispatcher's Federation) "Safety is no accident"
