Avient ?
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Sorry to dissapoint you, gentlemen. Sometimes we dont believe everything we read in the newspapers.
However - sometimes we were closely involved with such unscrupulous operators and have first hand experience of all the nonsense they have been up to and involved with. Sometimes we wonder how it is possible that their activities are just washed and paged over - leading only to uncomfortable suppositions and explanaitions for the reasons why the British authorities have not taken steps in this matter. Even these suppositions cannot justify their hypocracy and selective morality.
There are and were enough other people around in the DRC and Zimbabwe who observed and know the facts. Dont call their bluff - you may just lose.
Suppose you will also suggest or are oblivious to the facts that this company is/were old bedfellows to some of the most nototious and now banned nefarious operators in the world.
However - sometimes we were closely involved with such unscrupulous operators and have first hand experience of all the nonsense they have been up to and involved with. Sometimes we wonder how it is possible that their activities are just washed and paged over - leading only to uncomfortable suppositions and explanaitions for the reasons why the British authorities have not taken steps in this matter. Even these suppositions cannot justify their hypocracy and selective morality.
There are and were enough other people around in the DRC and Zimbabwe who observed and know the facts. Dont call their bluff - you may just lose.
Suppose you will also suggest or are oblivious to the facts that this company is/were old bedfellows to some of the most nototious and now banned nefarious operators in the world.
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EK-Avient codeshare
Avient must be doing something right , as Emirates have just announced that they are entering into a codeshare with them on Dubai,Accra, Dakar routing twice per week with DC10-30F
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Well done !! just don't let the United Arabian DC8 that Avient are marketing do that route as it has a habit of driving down into storm ditches in that part of the world.................
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If it was 5X-JOE it is one of the oldest DC-10's ever manufactured. This is just one of the manifestations of "old age" , and the very primary reason why DAS picked up their EU ban in the first place.
Trust Avient to have picked up this scrap thinking they are going to make it fly reliably on sustainable and commercialy exploitable basis.
Avient fly "very old heavymetal", not capable of sustainable reliable operations. Get them to inform the average age of their wrecks or do some research and see that their IL-76 is one of the very first IL Design Buro manufactured IL's, long beyong official Design Buro prolongation.
But then again, everything that looks European is overseen and automaticly viewed respectable. Let a true/real African operation try and fly this/such real rubbish into Europe and see how far they get.
One set of rules for the rest of the world, and another for "us".
Trust Avient to have picked up this scrap thinking they are going to make it fly reliably on sustainable and commercialy exploitable basis.
Avient fly "very old heavymetal", not capable of sustainable reliable operations. Get them to inform the average age of their wrecks or do some research and see that their IL-76 is one of the very first IL Design Buro manufactured IL's, long beyong official Design Buro prolongation.
But then again, everything that looks European is overseen and automaticly viewed respectable. Let a true/real African operation try and fly this/such real rubbish into Europe and see how far they get.
One set of rules for the rest of the world, and another for "us".
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AAL, why don't you get off your high horse and stop moaning. If you think you can start up and run an African airline,put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise let people who know what they are doing get on with the job of running a successful expanding airline, many of whose employees are African and happy to work for Avient.
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Dear Headfanwr, thats exactly the problem. Unfortunately not so simple as you suggest. First you see - you guy's like this Brit ferry bombs, crew and aircraft in here, bomb the **** out of our wives and children, and then with his spoils from this war has the audacity to start up an airline with old wrecks and thinks he must come now just for deserts and take our air cargo and money.
We have air companies and do the same. We try and get into Europe but are blocked by your industry protectionis schemes. We also have our own air companies but try as hard as you can, on an even footing flying such crap, we can not get clearances into your high and mighty continent. It is therefore not fair that scroundrels such as these get away with it - and if it has anything to do with us - we will make sure he faces here what we have to in Europe.
I Suppose you work for Mr Andy Smith, and if you are one of those pale skinned Africans who has already done the chicken-run, no wonder you are prepared to stand up for his nonsense and the hypocracy of the Europeans!
We have not quite yet progressed to all the gory details and facts but I am sure in this debate we will get to the bottom of some. First hang yourself - keep telling us what a saint this getleman actualy is and about the tons of good he has done for Africa, and as an aftertghout, include a paragraph about his warm relationship with the Zimbabwean government and who their business partners in Zimbabwe is, at a time when the rest of the world thinks they are polecatts.
Please dont stop now - sure that there is much more and many you can enlighten us on. You also dont say what the YOM of 5X-ROY, now Gana Reg is. Please enlightem us!
We have air companies and do the same. We try and get into Europe but are blocked by your industry protectionis schemes. We also have our own air companies but try as hard as you can, on an even footing flying such crap, we can not get clearances into your high and mighty continent. It is therefore not fair that scroundrels such as these get away with it - and if it has anything to do with us - we will make sure he faces here what we have to in Europe.
I Suppose you work for Mr Andy Smith, and if you are one of those pale skinned Africans who has already done the chicken-run, no wonder you are prepared to stand up for his nonsense and the hypocracy of the Europeans!
We have not quite yet progressed to all the gory details and facts but I am sure in this debate we will get to the bottom of some. First hang yourself - keep telling us what a saint this getleman actualy is and about the tons of good he has done for Africa, and as an aftertghout, include a paragraph about his warm relationship with the Zimbabwean government and who their business partners in Zimbabwe is, at a time when the rest of the world thinks they are polecatts.
Please dont stop now - sure that there is much more and many you can enlighten us on. You also dont say what the YOM of 5X-ROY, now Gana Reg is. Please enlightem us!
Last edited by AAL; 18th May 2007 at 16:27.
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AAL,
5X-ROY/Z-ALT newly acquired by Avient first flew 23/10/1979
5X-JOE still flying for DAS Air first flew 09/07/1973
What point were you hoping to make?
5X-ROY/Z-ALT newly acquired by Avient first flew 23/10/1979
5X-JOE still flying for DAS Air first flew 09/07/1973
What point were you hoping to make?
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For a start such older planes of African operators are not allowed into Europe anymore.
How is possible when there is a British - European connection that these are. Same with African International, and MK. Is it perhaps again a dicriminatory thing? Also bear in mind that DAS picked up these very problems because of the vintage aircraft they were flying. Does Avient intend to ressurect them and what makes them any better now.
What is the YOM of the Zimbabwean registered IL-76, as far as I know they can be prolonged by the IL Design Buro for maximim 25 years.
Twitcher are you related to Scratcher?
How is possible when there is a British - European connection that these are. Same with African International, and MK. Is it perhaps again a dicriminatory thing? Also bear in mind that DAS picked up these very problems because of the vintage aircraft they were flying. Does Avient intend to ressurect them and what makes them any better now.
What is the YOM of the Zimbabwean registered IL-76, as far as I know they can be prolonged by the IL Design Buro for maximim 25 years.
Twitcher are you related to Scratcher?
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The likes of DAS, MK and African International fly freely in Europe despite their age as they are maintained in the UK by EASA approved maintenance facilities.
Other 5X,9G and ZS aircraft maintained out of Europe are not so fortunate.
Other 5X,9G and ZS aircraft maintained out of Europe are not so fortunate.
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Does that mean that Europe does better maintenance on ageing aircraft. Common Twitcher - thats the double standards I am talkng about. Avients planes are museum pieces, their brothers and sisters have long ago been put to pasture.
You are obviously close to this bunch and it is expected and commendable that you stand up for them.
As for the rest of the point, surf the web and see the extent of Mr Smith's collusion with the Kinshasa and Zimbabwean governments during the Congolese Civil War. In the process he aided and abetted the killing and maiming of millions of Congolese woman and children. And this in collusion with one of the most despicable despot regimes in Africa who themselves are equally guilty of oppressing the Zimbabean people. Ask him about his aviation workshops in Bulawayo - and what kind of conversions and maintainance they were doing there in co-opration with the ZAF.
As for another point; other people who did much less wrong are being held accountable before the war crimes court in the Hague. Why is this guy avaoiding accountability - because he is European?
You are obviously close to this bunch and it is expected and commendable that you stand up for them.
As for the rest of the point, surf the web and see the extent of Mr Smith's collusion with the Kinshasa and Zimbabwean governments during the Congolese Civil War. In the process he aided and abetted the killing and maiming of millions of Congolese woman and children. And this in collusion with one of the most despicable despot regimes in Africa who themselves are equally guilty of oppressing the Zimbabean people. Ask him about his aviation workshops in Bulawayo - and what kind of conversions and maintainance they were doing there in co-opration with the ZAF.
As for another point; other people who did much less wrong are being held accountable before the war crimes court in the Hague. Why is this guy avaoiding accountability - because he is European?
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Does that mean that Europe does better maintenance on ageing aircraft.
With regards to the age of the DC10 may be you should be reminded that large American companies still operate these aircraft.
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AAL, I feel your frustration buddy. But its just the way things work, I dont know what the answer is for African operators. Not sure how the whole banning process works either, I am sure that operators would be given several chances to make the required changes before a ban takes effect. Unfortunately African operators will continue to suffer if they do not meet the standards to operate in the EU. Just a thought, the blame for bad maintainance seems to go to the engineers, I dont think you can say that European engineers maintain aircraft any better than Africans. Its just that they are not given the recources in Africa to do it properly every time, blame the bean counters I say.
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Dear Engineer, We incidently dont want such old wrecks flying here. You are very presumptious to believe that your maintenance and enginering is better than that in Africa. I can ussure you that there are some in Addis and Johannesburg that will put you to sleep. You are self-centred, self-serving, hypocritical people.
Just for your benefit I will soon post some pictures of an SN-Brussels aircraft that was grounded in an African country not too long ago. Pity you did not impart your first class enginering skills to them.
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander; no older African aircraft into Europe - no older European aircraft into Africa. You have more faith in yourselves than we do.
Does that then also mean that you proud Europeans do the maintenance and oversight of Avients IL-76, because the Design Buro surely does not!
Just for your benefit I will soon post some pictures of an SN-Brussels aircraft that was grounded in an African country not too long ago. Pity you did not impart your first class enginering skills to them.
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander; no older African aircraft into Europe - no older European aircraft into Africa. You have more faith in yourselves than we do.
Does that then also mean that you proud Europeans do the maintenance and oversight of Avients IL-76, because the Design Buro surely does not!
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Hear Ye All Good Men:
Say, ...is anybody who may have been closely involved in the "honorable" Avient operation aware of how Avient was till apparently vey recently positioning their IL-76 back southbound, after Baghdad deliveries. The route is a bugger as cargo back southbound is usualy restricted to Khartoum or Eldorette.
Heard a bird sing that their southbound might have included tobacco products that has taken a bad turn and gone very sour.
Heard a bird sing that their southbound might have included tobacco products that has taken a bad turn and gone very sour.
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Avient - Myths
Gents - BGW return loads are legitimate commercial cargo sometimes by charter down Eastside of Africa or via LOS.
IL76 Nortbound carriers armour plating under a commercial civilian contract.
They have hardly ever been to EDL, but Cargolux, EK and others all have been does this make them less legitimate.? KRT unlikely for anything other than a tech stop as Sudanese carriers not reknown for their open skies approach....
3rd DC10 on its way 12 June and forth planned for October I believe, being a customer have only ever found them quite straightforward in their dealings quite different from our "friends" at DAS or ANA.
Hope this helps..and would be nice to see an independent airline suceed for once, but i guess where AAL is based one could hardly expect him to be open to competition.
IL76 Nortbound carriers armour plating under a commercial civilian contract.
They have hardly ever been to EDL, but Cargolux, EK and others all have been does this make them less legitimate.? KRT unlikely for anything other than a tech stop as Sudanese carriers not reknown for their open skies approach....
3rd DC10 on its way 12 June and forth planned for October I believe, being a customer have only ever found them quite straightforward in their dealings quite different from our "friends" at DAS or ANA.
Hope this helps..and would be nice to see an independent airline suceed for once, but i guess where AAL is based one could hardly expect him to be open to competition.
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Dear Rogerdabootler; seems you are/were involved with sending the IL-76 back soutbound after it dropped of the armoured vehicles in Baghdad.
Specific question is: is/was she carrying tobacco products, where destined for, and were/are all protocols and taxation conventions considered for the destination country.
It is also ironical that nobody has as quickly yet ventured their expert or qualified opinion if this (only T-model) IL-76 is a legally airworthy aircraft, maintained and officialy prolongated by the IL Design Buro, notwithstanding exceding its hull-lifelimit, which has expired. Or about who Avient's sleeping partners in Zimbabwe are.
Its also amazing that the European Union are prepared to accept the Regulatory Oversight of the Zimbabwean CAA where the DC-10's (actualy very old) are now registered, in a clearly dysfunctional country where $10 can buy anything.
We all know that nothing works in Zimbabwe anymore, and that for a few cents any papers for anything can be obtained. The Zim authorities were/are even prepared to register, regulate and oversee Chinese Xian's which are by now apparently not even flying anymore.
Now explain, why flying for DAS, under Ugandan and Ghanian oversight, the DC-10's were not good enough and banned by Europe, but simply re-registered in Zimbabwe on a dubious operators name with dubious characters as sleeping partners, what make sthem any better and lesser risk for the safety of european skies?
An intensive investigation by the UN should be conducted into Avient's associations and partnerships in Zimbabwe to expose their involvement with persons who are otherwise banned from such activities and using this relationship and partnership to circumvent international ban's in collusion with with these known unscrupulous British people.
Please tell us about the IL-76 southbound tobacco products comrade!
Specific question is: is/was she carrying tobacco products, where destined for, and were/are all protocols and taxation conventions considered for the destination country.
It is also ironical that nobody has as quickly yet ventured their expert or qualified opinion if this (only T-model) IL-76 is a legally airworthy aircraft, maintained and officialy prolongated by the IL Design Buro, notwithstanding exceding its hull-lifelimit, which has expired. Or about who Avient's sleeping partners in Zimbabwe are.
Its also amazing that the European Union are prepared to accept the Regulatory Oversight of the Zimbabwean CAA where the DC-10's (actualy very old) are now registered, in a clearly dysfunctional country where $10 can buy anything.
We all know that nothing works in Zimbabwe anymore, and that for a few cents any papers for anything can be obtained. The Zim authorities were/are even prepared to register, regulate and oversee Chinese Xian's which are by now apparently not even flying anymore.
Now explain, why flying for DAS, under Ugandan and Ghanian oversight, the DC-10's were not good enough and banned by Europe, but simply re-registered in Zimbabwe on a dubious operators name with dubious characters as sleeping partners, what make sthem any better and lesser risk for the safety of european skies?
An intensive investigation by the UN should be conducted into Avient's associations and partnerships in Zimbabwe to expose their involvement with persons who are otherwise banned from such activities and using this relationship and partnership to circumvent international ban's in collusion with with these known unscrupulous British people.
Please tell us about the IL-76 southbound tobacco products comrade!
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AAL - Not involved just aware of what is going on.....as I am regular customer. No Tobacco that I am aware of just all the usual general cargo to LOS and beyond - kitchen sink to textiles etc. You even have to sign a waiver against contraband if you want to send material to LOS with them and provide a form M number for currency exchange in Nigeria....So once again nothing untoward there then.
The Iraq flying is also nothing special now adays everyone is up and down to 12+ airports in Iraq, many on a scheduled basis, we use a whole bunch of people for our business.
I have basic information on what i understand to be their Main/Eng programme and indeed they are beyond that of their regulator and they are busy with their IOSA programme as we speak.
As far as DAS in concerned, have used them many many times and despite what people may say, they appear here in the M/E on a charter basis only, have other people paying their DOC - Direct Operating Costs as no one will give them credit and just found out the aircraft is also due for a C check pretty soon...so I wont be transferring our business to them, as i consider them a risk....Hope this helps
The Iraq flying is also nothing special now adays everyone is up and down to 12+ airports in Iraq, many on a scheduled basis, we use a whole bunch of people for our business.
I have basic information on what i understand to be their Main/Eng programme and indeed they are beyond that of their regulator and they are busy with their IOSA programme as we speak.
As far as DAS in concerned, have used them many many times and despite what people may say, they appear here in the M/E on a charter basis only, have other people paying their DOC - Direct Operating Costs as no one will give them credit and just found out the aircraft is also due for a C check pretty soon...so I wont be transferring our business to them, as i consider them a risk....Hope this helps