Cl-44-o and swingtail merged
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 316
Likes: 50
From: Munich, Germany
This thread has been reported to us on the basis that FAA regulations will not allow this aircraft certification for even a ferry flight.
I don't consider this project (commercial freight operations) very viable in its current form (a ferry flight to a museum much more so), but there's no point in creating "fake news" making things even more desolate for a group of people who are currently sinking a lot of their own money and time into something which they thoroughly believe in.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: Florida USA
N447FT CL44 is on the FAA alert/watch list for ALL FAA DARs NOT to issue any Ferry/SFP permits for this aircraft..... So there you have it FACT call a European FAA DAR or FAA International office in Dallas/New York and all will tell you the same. Stop dreaming and waisting money and getting a con job done on yourselves and investors..
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,490
Likes: 0
From: Hotel this week, hotel next week, home whenever...
4 Holer
I have no vested interest either way in whether she flies again or not, however, if I had sunken x dollars into the project and I could prove the provenance of the parts and Structural integrity of the airframe repairs, sorted out a qualified and trained crew then I am sure a few extra dollars with lawyers to sort out mr FAA’s reluctance to issues C of A would be the least of my worries.
I have no vested interest either way in whether she flies again or not, however, if I had sunken x dollars into the project and I could prove the provenance of the parts and Structural integrity of the airframe repairs, sorted out a qualified and trained crew then I am sure a few extra dollars with lawyers to sort out mr FAA’s reluctance to issues C of A would be the least of my worries.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: Florida USA
How do you sort out the required 6 month currency check for the flight engineer and the cancellation of the Rolls Royce Tyne type certificate and no tech support from Canadair , FAA/Manufacturers maintenance program for ferry permit.... Your all dreamers, children unable to comply with basic regulatory requirements. I can see them now sitting at the flying club talking it up. it will never fly with a US registration, more money than sense but seems the money has run out.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 115
From: UK
Just look at how much money they poured into resurrecting Belfast G-BEPS from a shell at Southend The CAA kept telling them that it would never move again and they got as far as hanging four engines and three propellers on the old girl (and even giving her a wash) just for the whole project to fall on its ar+e and the scrapman quickly followed.
Anyone who thinks the Guppy is going to fly again simply does not understand the problem (in my humble opinion).
Anyone who thinks the Guppy is going to fly again simply does not understand the problem (in my humble opinion).
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,156
Likes: 113
From: There and here
Could it not simply be transferred onto another country's register for a a one-off ferry flight to pastures new ? As long as it's mechanically airworthy, open water is a minute away from BOH and then it's someone else's issue to worry about. I'm assuming that they want to head to the dark continent.
Joined: Apr 2004
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
Posts: 2,281
Likes: 189
From: Dorset UK
Open water might be minutes away, but it has to fly near my house first if it uses 26.
It has been at BOH for about 15 years and always outside. Who is going to look for corrosion without a "D" check and lots of X-rays?
It has been at BOH for about 15 years and always outside. Who is going to look for corrosion without a "D" check and lots of X-rays?
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 463
Likes: 7
From: Deepest Essex.
11 of the 39 CL44s built were lost in accidents, mostly fatal. Admittedly some were not the aeroplane's fault, eg shot down by a Soviet MiG in one case, but nevertheless this was a dangerous aeroplane.
I would dearly love to see the Guppy fly again, but please folks, consider this: it isn't worth the risk to life that I honestly consider getting it airborne again represents.
I can't begin to appreciate the Herculean task readying the Guppy for flight entails. Corrosion, training, paperwork, etc. I admire the effort but I do feel it is misplaced.
It was a complex machine and I say that with nearly 1000 hours on 44s, my last ever flight on one being on 447T in 1979. In those days, training, qualified crews and engineers with experience were abundant as were spare parts. There was a wealth of knowledge available.
Nowadays? All of that is long-gone. I'm 64, and still a current professional pilot. I looked out the ops manuals, checklists and training guidance that I still have for the aeroplane. I can't imagine how you could even begin to train a crew for the aeroplane, or who you would find to certify them and I say that with an airline TR examiner hat on.
Whilst I wish you well, IMHO it would be best if it were to remain grounded, even though it pains me to say so. I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm raining on the parade, but really, isn't it too late for this venerable old lady? Please don't fly it, unless you can allay my fears by persuading me that your efforts are backed by similar levels of resources and money to those of say, the Lufthansa Constellation project or the Qantas 707 project.
"All off outboards, 100 lbs inboards"
I would dearly love to see the Guppy fly again, but please folks, consider this: it isn't worth the risk to life that I honestly consider getting it airborne again represents.
I can't begin to appreciate the Herculean task readying the Guppy for flight entails. Corrosion, training, paperwork, etc. I admire the effort but I do feel it is misplaced.
It was a complex machine and I say that with nearly 1000 hours on 44s, my last ever flight on one being on 447T in 1979. In those days, training, qualified crews and engineers with experience were abundant as were spare parts. There was a wealth of knowledge available.
Nowadays? All of that is long-gone. I'm 64, and still a current professional pilot. I looked out the ops manuals, checklists and training guidance that I still have for the aeroplane. I can't imagine how you could even begin to train a crew for the aeroplane, or who you would find to certify them and I say that with an airline TR examiner hat on.
Whilst I wish you well, IMHO it would be best if it were to remain grounded, even though it pains me to say so. I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm raining on the parade, but really, isn't it too late for this venerable old lady? Please don't fly it, unless you can allay my fears by persuading me that your efforts are backed by similar levels of resources and money to those of say, the Lufthansa Constellation project or the Qantas 707 project.
"All off outboards, 100 lbs inboards"
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 463
Likes: 7
From: Deepest Essex.
rude-stuff,
If asked, I'd probably be flattered, but I would very much decline. 40 years ago, when I flew it, I flew with captains and flight engineers who had enormous experience and knew the aeroplane well.
The tech course on the aeroplane alone was 5 weeks in the classroom. It tested your mettle, handling skills, airmanship and technical knowledge at regular intervals - and that was when it was in regular service, looked after by people and engineers who understood it,
supported by manufacturers and service agencies. Spares were available and the aeroplane's were given regular hangar visits.
Nevertheless, just shy of 1000 hours saw 1 EFATO, 5 IFSDs, 1 hydraulics failure (the famous switch by the captains right knee was tripped) several 3-engine ferries and 1 flapless landing (at MLW) oh, and I nearly ran it off the end of the runway once at Lubumbashi. A long story, but my inexperience largely to blame.
All of that is long gone. I loved flying it, it was intractile and incredibly heavy on the controls. D.P Davies is alleged to have slammed it, nonetheless it was a true adventure and one I still bore people to death about. Best flying I've done in 27000 hours.
Fly it today? No thanks. Best if it is disassembled and trucked out to preservation at say Kemble or Bruntie.
Once more, I'm sorry to be such a killjoy, but it gives me misgivings to think of it working again.
Cheers all,
If asked, I'd probably be flattered, but I would very much decline. 40 years ago, when I flew it, I flew with captains and flight engineers who had enormous experience and knew the aeroplane well.
The tech course on the aeroplane alone was 5 weeks in the classroom. It tested your mettle, handling skills, airmanship and technical knowledge at regular intervals - and that was when it was in regular service, looked after by people and engineers who understood it,
supported by manufacturers and service agencies. Spares were available and the aeroplane's were given regular hangar visits.
Nevertheless, just shy of 1000 hours saw 1 EFATO, 5 IFSDs, 1 hydraulics failure (the famous switch by the captains right knee was tripped) several 3-engine ferries and 1 flapless landing (at MLW) oh, and I nearly ran it off the end of the runway once at Lubumbashi. A long story, but my inexperience largely to blame.
All of that is long gone. I loved flying it, it was intractile and incredibly heavy on the controls. D.P Davies is alleged to have slammed it, nonetheless it was a true adventure and one I still bore people to death about. Best flying I've done in 27000 hours.
Fly it today? No thanks. Best if it is disassembled and trucked out to preservation at say Kemble or Bruntie.
Once more, I'm sorry to be such a killjoy, but it gives me misgivings to think of it working again.
Cheers all,
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 463
Likes: 7
From: Deepest Essex.
Only that a friend sent me a link to a facebook page confirming it's sad but inevitable end has arrived.
I stand by my previous posts: putting it back into the air would have been a very dangerous endeavour.
I wonder if any of it will be preserved, probably not I'd guess.
I stand by my previous posts: putting it back into the air would have been a very dangerous endeavour.
I wonder if any of it will be preserved, probably not I'd guess.
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 149
Likes: 24
From: Martian
This is a most interesting thread.
I'm contrasting what is supposedly happening to this aircraft, to Hector the Belslow in Cairns where also supposedly folk are frantically working to get this back in the air and even, if rumour is to be believed, seem to have the regulatory authority of the country on side!?
I'm contrasting what is supposedly happening to this aircraft, to Hector the Belslow in Cairns where also supposedly folk are frantically working to get this back in the air and even, if rumour is to be believed, seem to have the regulatory authority of the country on side!?
Joined: Apr 2003
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 10,588
Likes: 805
From: Northumberland
A spokesperson for the airport said the aircraft had been grounded due to corrosion and had been in Bournemouth ever since.
"Over the years, it appears to have passed through multiple ownerships but its condition has been deteriorating, so the airport took ownership earlier this year," they said.
"We have been in discussions over the years with various interest groups and individuals about finding it a permanent home, but sadly nothing ever materialised. The aircraft is now being dismantled and, to preserve its legacy, large parts of it are going to the South Wales Aviation Musuem at St Athan where we are pleased that they will go on public display."
The airport said other parts would also be made available worldwide so they could be re-used on other historical aircraft.
"Over the years, it appears to have passed through multiple ownerships but its condition has been deteriorating, so the airport took ownership earlier this year," they said.
"We have been in discussions over the years with various interest groups and individuals about finding it a permanent home, but sadly nothing ever materialised. The aircraft is now being dismantled and, to preserve its legacy, large parts of it are going to the South Wales Aviation Musuem at St Athan where we are pleased that they will go on public display."
The airport said other parts would also be made available worldwide so they could be re-used on other historical aircraft.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,640
Likes: 133
From: Paradise
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 74
Likes: 1
From: Germany
Aviationtag is now offering Keytags from CL-44-0 Skymonster
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https://www.aviationtag.com/?mc_cid=5760162625
