CX Direct Entry Capt
 

It's started, CX has hired the first couple of Direct Entry Captains to fly the 747-400! Ex OA pilots not spending a day as an FO. Bypass pay for those delayed a Command course...not a chance. What does the AOA say...apparently not much!:mad::mad:

On the 744F ? or Pax?

Started? This has been going on for years. Don't kid yourself. We had a bunch of DE Skippers start Jan 08. But it was happening on a small scale basis well before that any way.

Has anyone heard the numbers?

I was spooled up for a course in the fall - Still looks like the fall alright - of 09 or 10!

...uh, it's been happening since 94'. Have we forgotten about our ASL brothers who were hired directly into the left seat? The latest affront is more serious, as we now have a 'unified' fleet (no separate freighter fleet as in ASL). The basic facts are that any semblance of a seniority protected career in CX are over. Those of you young enough to consider another career choice may need to assess your options.

It's time!
 

DEC's are the way to the future! All this archaic practice of starting like an apprentice working your way up in servility has no place in the modern world. This semi feudalistic practice and the equally obsolete seniority system are the bane of the industry which the airline management make use to the fullest, to the detriment of pilots world wide.

jando, I'm sure the FO's will agree with you.:yuk:

It has been happening for a while on the Classic as no one wanted to take a command on the classic but these are the FIRST to join the 400 fleet as a DEC on the CX list. I have no problem accepting the necessity of DEC but pay the bypass pay for those already CAT A'd waiting for a command course!

CPdude.....exactly what 'necessity' is there to accept DEC's on the 400..?

First Oasis RC (rapid Commanders) hit the streets on 6th June. Rumour on the 3rd floor is that they received 100 app's all are being considered. 40 RC positions will be offered mostly in HKG on HKG roster on LEP terms on 744 (since there is no more freighter crewing agreement in place - you know what that means).

First to be offered positions are those who are "recency critical" and G O$$ was amongst the top of that list.

Seems like its jobs for buddies and taking the dinosaurs first!

I would sincerely like to thank NR and PW for giving me the finger yet again!

AFL

CX Direct Entry Captains
 

Apple Tree Yard I guess CX management has seen an opportunity to save a few dollars by hiring current captains direct to the -400. CX was built on being "smart" with the financial side of the business and if they had not they would not be around today. If the pilots being hired directly to the left seat have a past history with CX that, I would guess, is a plus for both the pilot and the company. For one who has only good memories of my time with CX I find it sad that there seems to be so much unhappiness in the company at the present time. Plenty of opportunities down here in Oz if it gets too much to cope with in HK.

ATY,

The "necessity" is the shortage of 400 Captains...I'm just saying if you want to skip the normal process then pay compensation to those you hurt!:ok:

ATY,

irony
a method of humorous or subtly sarcastic expression in which the intended meaning of the words is the direct opposite of their usual sense

at least I think that's what jandakotcruiser was up to :)

Have put this on another thread so excuse me.
Is the current DEC the same person who has a nomination in for the G.C??
Dont spose that is ironic is it??

As always, the bottom line is that the management will do whatever the management want to do...

...unless they are taken to task by the employees.

End of story...

Fenwicksgirl,

And who do we have to blame for this? Cathay or us for allowing it and doing nothing like the gutless bunch we all are?

Finally someone has woken up to the fact that this is happening,
:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::=:=:=:=:

?
 

errr. Who's fault is that?

popadom,

If they are "less junior" whats the problem? Did you want a freighter command? If you did and satisfy the * chamber you should get one.:ok:

BusyB - AOA current committee - zzzt - part of the problem not the solution.

Just curious to know if the KA boys are going to get the same reaction? :ouch:

I'm stunned. Just an observer no affiliation with CX but why in the world hire captains off the street? Are there not a suitable pool of F/O's with operational experience & qualification to become a commander?

Surely it would make more sense to upgrade and replace F/O's than it would to inject outsiders into leadership roles of which they have minimal experience. In fact, what this probably reveals is an impending lack of interest in the pilot profession altogether.

It would be wiser to entice "outsiders" into F/O & S/O positions with increased pay & benefits respectively.

Capitalism

These DEC positions are on the freighter which is a lower pay than HK based F/Os on the pax fleet, it's just one of the ways CX divides and conquers its aircrew.

Ok, latest update: very reassuring to hear that all direct entry captain positions are available to existing crew. Oh but wait, you will have to take a huge pay cut if you want one and go on local terms!

In my view, those positions are not available at all to any current officers if the only way to get the captain's position is to almost pay for it by giving away your benefits!! :eek:

OK Now I am pissed
 

You have got to be kidding. It would be bad enough if the CO. was sliding them in as Rapid commands but this is ASL ALL OVER

To take commands out of the system and then change the COS to them specifically is outrageous.

I am off to keep phoning someone to do something, .........

FG

We have got to get freighter pay up to pax pay, that's the only way to stop our COS sliding towards local conditions, which is happening now, before our very eyes:eek:

The company is not going to pay bypass pay it keeps us squabbling, they like the status quo, and lets them continue to erode our conditions. I bet even if we gave up bypass pay (just for this cause) to bring freight pay up to pax, CX would find a way not to. It would actually unite the crew as opposed divide. Then go on to get better COS!

KJP you have got to be kidding! If someone wins a bid and gets a 400F command in SYD awarded why does a DEC with a HKG base get priority for the command? You decided to award the spots on those bases...oh wait, that was only because of the CX screw-up with ASL!

I say choke on it KJP, who ever is awarded a Command base slot should be also awarded the command course in seniority regardless of base. Remember, that was your fault.:mad:

stillalbatross,
Its up to you if you believe the rumour mill. What you have stated is wrong.:p

The New DEC recruits are freighter only. Not Pax, Whats more with ages of some in the 60's I don't think it will be for very long.:ok:

Aren't DEC specifically not allowed in our COS?? Aren't DEC illegal with regards to our contracts?? Why don't the AOA defend at least our very minimum career protection?? Can't be that hard to win that one in courts!!

The shortages of crew on the freighter is due to the poor conditions offered. The solution isn't to disregard our legal COS and hire DEC, but to bring improvements to make them more attractive. But maybe I'm a dreamer.

They may have lots of command training planned for the next 2-3 years (many of those on the freighter), but with DEC now happening it doesn't mean much. And if you add RA65 to the equation, forget about having a career progression:bored:

AM I just dumb or will these guys all transfer to the Pax fleet eventually and therefore by default hold the rest of us back from promotion?????
AM I just stupid ? Do I not have a clear understanding of the contracts? Or do every single DEFO and DE Captain essentially take a course off somebody else in line. Even though they are all on the freighter - they can all eventually transfer to the Pax fleet and therefore they have jumped the line and all of us are held back.

Please tell me I am dumb and this is not the case?

Exactly how many guys whingeing about the ex- OA guys have put their hands up for one of these commands? The package is derisory, but if you want to fly a shiny brand new -400F in the LH seat right away the position is indeed available should you so desire, just pop in and see KJP and you'll be on the next course I assure you.

Those whingeing should see the irony in that the CX Terms and Conditions became worthless the moment the first 'B' scaler signed on the dotted line to undermine CX 'A' scale T&C, this has continued with ASL, 'C' scales 'D' scales and now 'O' scales.

The company reserves the right to recruit crew on new terms and conditions as it sees fit, and as long as there are guys who will turn up for the (increasingly awful) T&C it's just tough titty on those before them. As I say, if you want your command out of seniority, just accept the latest T&C downgrade, KJPs door is always open....... :cool:

Hear hear, Kitsune. 'Who'd join on B scales?' was often heard in the Kai Tak crew room.

Kitsune, What kind of illusionary drugs are you on? There is a list over a page long of guys waiting for a course. Many are already Cat A! I know of several who have been told "not a chance this year". But keep on telling yourself the path is open for those already in CX...unfortunately a few will believe it.:*

Kitsune, there's over a thousand FO here and you really think none are interested in freighter commands??

Do you also believe that those DEC are for the freighter only?? Remember that both fleets are now united. What exactly prevents them from using a DEC on the pax fleet in a year or some other future time??

And DEC are specifically not permitted in our COS. It's getting worse by the month. Can't wait for the AOA's election to be over. Hopefully we'll see some changes in direction :sad:

If I'm wrong answer me the original question.... how many here have gone to ask for their freighter command on 'O' scales? :rolleyes:

Kitsune,

So DEC hiring to HKG is OK because no one else will accept "O" scale? So why don't we create a new COS for LHR Captains at 50% of "B" scale salary. No one currently employed with CX will take it and then CX can recruit DEC's. Is that your logic? Who are you ... KJP?:ugh:

cpdude, someone who has been with CX looong before there were any 'dudes'..... as for your post, please see my previous re 'B' scalers.:cool:

He shoots....he scores!!

You say it was the 'A' scalers fault that 'B' scales were introduced...... we faced a company determined on expansion who said: "We're changing the contract for new joiners, we have a thousand 'dudes' desperate to sign up right now, in fact we've already signed the first course up.... whatcha gonna do about it?"

How is our response different to YOUR response to ASL/C scales/contracts in the mailbox/the 49ers/D scales, and now 'O' scales? :cool:

gents, with all respect, but you are doing exactly what management wants us to do : start fighting with ourselves instead with the enemy.
let's stay united, forget that a vs b scale bull!!!!!, amen.