KA Resignations
 

How many resignations in the last 8 weeks? I think we're up to 14? (heard 3 more today)
Response from GMO?
Zero.

Check my maths but I think thats 5% of the pilots either resigned already or in the next few months.

I personally know of another 6 who are waiting for gratuity etc then resigning in the near future.

Hmmmm!

"Plaps".......are they similar to "Plafs" ?

Well, it seems my prediction of a 5% staff turnover rate have come earlier than I guessed.
Might I now go for a 10% turnover rate in 12 months.

If that is not "voting with your feet" then I don't know what is.

Drunkenair
Cheers (hic)
:}

Dear Mr FEArookie,
I am an outsider trying to come to grips with your post. I Understand that your expat colleagues are earning double the amount as a local would earn?
Are all local pilots training costs in KA paid by the company..by that i mean,all ab initio etc to commercial or atpl standard?
Have your conditions been changed since your agreement to accept the terms and conditions of your training and subsequent employment ? Are these what you agreed to in the first place?
Traditionally it has been very difficult for an Expat F/o to get a job.The standard company line of why should we employ you when we can employ a local pilot has always made it very difficult.The number of airlines that do this and offer a career progression have been very few. It appears that some of these people have arrived on your doorstep. I do believe that if you want to live an American lifestyle or an Australian lifestyle etc that you should do that in your own country. It is not an easy step leaving your own country to achieve your dreams be it money or career prospects.
You have mentioned Unions as well.They are generally an important circuit breaker when things get heated from either side.Your union will try to negotiate a general payrise in the core elements of your pay.ie base pay,overtime etc,that way every pilot benefits,not to mention the insurance packages offered ..
Lowkoon has mentioned that as a local pilot(Most likely your first job) that there is a difference in experience,but not on expectations.We all want a career path and a decent salary.It has been made difficult when different groups have accepted different terms and conditions and especially when your airline have offered you local terms with no choice. Unfortunately if your agreed to terms have been violated then fight...if you simply now think it is unfair ..perhaps it is too late and the only way to achieve something better is to apply for that airline across the road or further afield.
Each expat pilot will have a different reason for his arrival overseas. Pay..quick command??? KA is a little different in that it offers a long term contract(Open ended) not the two/three or five year gig.There are plenty of jobs out there if you want this type of lifestyle(look for a new job the moment you start the current) but most of us want a long term,stable career path and we move to a place that will offer this.
Are you protected in any way by being on local terms?
If an expat was to screw up..would he or she be kicked out of the country?
I am rambling now
that's about it
enuff said

Another resignation today - 320 Training Captain off to Jetstar.

Those floodgates have been well and truly kicked down - time to discuss 'market forces' with dear Tim again. :hmm:

Let the frog stew

Another resignation I hear.

Another trainer I hear.

Indeed.

And a few others awaiting interview results evidently.

A dozen guys doing final sim checks mid Nov, wont be hard to pick them, they will be the ones requesting the vor/dme back in to hkg!

Might be hard to find crew over these days.... Good luck fellas! :ok:

Hey And Then- I think they know the results, just waiting on start dates. If KA would ditch the 3 months notice requirement, many airlines would be most appreciative. No one shows up for those 3 months anyway!

Another 330 captain resigned today. Got to be over 30 guys so far? GMO says 20 airbus commands next year... Surely that will only just cover the guys going to the freighter, and Air China contract.... What about the rest? Or do they plan on reducing services even further?

Interesting times! Time to step in and sort out the mess I think Kenny, you have had 12 months to see where the problems are... Time to actually do something. :)

Look forward to seeing some leadership around here. Anyone "back on board" yet?! :hmm: What ever happened to that little gem???

step in kenny?
 

kenny has no clue as to what is going on..... Have you read his latest gem? Blah blah...... Exciting..... Blah blah...... I have just had a week in Japan!

This place is &$@#%d

Four more captains on interview this week.

"If you don't like it leave" says the GMO?

Will that statement ever be retracted? :\

Unlikely to be retracted, but I suspect regretted by the end of the financial year. Hard to hide several grossly underutilised aircraft & large numbers of cancelled flights from the financial boffins across the road without using the words 'chronic crew shortage'. Its then only a short leap to 'why'.

"Unlikely to be retracted, but I suspect regretted....."

You have it all wrong - he is now saying he was mis-quoted and that we "took it the wrong way."

Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
:}

Implication still there
 

He may have been misquoted but he still implies it with the recent pay offer.

This is the only place I have worked where the captains leave at twice the rate of the FOs! This has got to hurt! Why are we in such a hurry to sign off on anything? The longer this goes on, the better it is for the DPAs position in negotiation! Management state we will never get cx terms, but the longer this goes on, stating the obvious, the more chance we have of getting close. So we pull out of negotiations until JC has done his indepth analysis of the rise in rent prices in hong kong.

We pull out of negotiations until this analysis is complete, then we go for back pay because of the companies delay. In this time of indepth analysis by the company, another half dozen captains have resigned, and the company is potentially parking aircraft, due 'crew shortage'. One thing you can count on, if we sign off before this crack team have analysed the property market, there will be no increases. The same thing for schooling. Lets just hold off until it is complete. Time is on our side, not theirs. Current T&Cs no longer attract new hires, new hires not turning up can't be put down to a coincidence anymore.

The same for rostering. management say we are making 'progress'. Why should we sign off on anything until this "progress" is incorporated into the agreement? Otherwise it is just bs propaganda to get us to sign off in the 'hope' things will improve. This is akin to telling children that if they are good, santa will come. A hollow promise, when you realise that santa doesnt exist, neither does any rostering agreement. Lets see the agreement,(or santa) then we sign.

May we live in interesting times!

Getting back to the original thread, I hear that another B744 Capt has just resigned. :D

If this, combined with the other resignations, is not an indication that KA is not the airline to come to for a career, then there is nothing those that are here can say or do to make you listen.

Of course you can come and get that 'Bus' or 'Boeing' endorsement and then take it somewhere where you are looked after.

Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
:}

Trainer
 

Yes and he was a trainer too! In just over a year of the -400 operation what percentage of those converted onto the -400 have gone, 25%?
KT do you read this?

Gday Vermin, you have the honour of being the first person on earth to call me an optimist! Thanks! Completely agree with hold the line. No question. The only thing we disagree on is the 'bloody nose'. I honestly think we can just sit back, relax, and watch them give themselves uppercuts to their own noses. We dont have to do anything, infact, I think the crewing issue is so terminal, dropping contract compliance tomorrow morning wont change a thing. It is way past 'good will' fixing their inept crewing missmanagement. Way past it. In a way, because we have CC, they have something to blame the problems on other than themselves. Dont forget TW told Kenny that CC only affects a few trouble makers, so he cant use it as an excuse to the board or new owners without looking like a liar, so we are safe there.

People are leaving way faster than they can hire, let alone train! Just sit back and relax, and enjoy the show! (And expect way more rostering disruptions than we ever thought possible!)

Interesting times for sure,

Makes you really stop and think, when one of KA's favorite sons joins the rapidly growing list of departures.

I feel we will see a lot more of this in the months ahead, it remains to see WHEN the management will take this seriously.

To anyone considering KA, be very careful, where there is smoke there is fire!

Would the last one out please turn off the lights (to save power)

Cheers

Is there anything positive coming out of the talks between the DPA and the GMO? Have heard murmurs the GMO doesn't believe there is a problem at all. He can't work me harder. Can he? :\

mini cooper: I gotta feeling that any S/O that resigns from CX wont stand a hope in hell of getting into KA.

However I do think CX will send S/O's to KA in the future for training.

On it goes,

A great guy lost yesterday, recently B744 rated (at what cost Cathay must surely ask eventually) the second lot of Airbus C&T credentials out the door this week!

The Air China cantidates still to be notified with several others in the grips of the Tiger/Jetstar process as we speak.

The next round of Oasis start dates due by easter with upwards of 30 rumoured to be on file.

Surely L2 must be concerned, particularly as the replacements are proving increasingly difficult to find under the current state of operation.

Oz2

Guys n Gals, last one out, please switch of the lights in KA house, Thank you.

With no aircraft on order, now is the time to put on a mega cadet course! :hmm:

They can at least hang on to those guys until the have the experience for Oasis. :)

The hot money is on 2 more resignations next week. It now seems that whatever offer KA finally come up with, it will be too late to stop the massive staff losses they have and will continue to incur.

Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
:}

So how many are off to Tiger Aus?

5 that I know of guaranteed, maybe some more hiding in the woodwork

I heard three A330 Captains resigned yesterday. And a 320 FO a few days earlier.

"Show us your feet. If you don't like it leave". Ummm I think the new owners better step in because this is going to get worse.

No-one likes being wrong. I aplogise for saying that only 2 were leaving next week. I see it was actually 3 A330 Capts and this week.

But lets not forget the newly checked out B744 Capt also tendering his resignation.

Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
:}

So many guys taking up the GMO`s invitation to leave. Guess he did not expect that. Whats the cost to KA of this brash statement.

A330 Capt resigned yesterday.

Another one is resigning Monday

The idiots choped yet another guy doing CT5 on the 400 and he's resigned on the spot and already left Hong Kong!!!!

Quote:"If you don't like it leave!"

Think that's 10% of the pilots resigned.

Response from management?

ABSOLUTELY ZERO!!!!!

The silence is deafening.

Who was the bright spark on the B744 in control of CT5. Not someone that H.W. mentioned while declining KA's continued employment?

Think that's 10% of the pilots resigned.
 

Is that 10% for the year, or the last few months. I'll have noone to fly with soon:ugh:

This loss of trained professionals would not be tolerated in just about any other industry.

Management have been quite happy sitting back getting the cushy rosters, weekends and Xmas off, and all the perks not to mention the extra$ for years now.

When they are required to step in during a crisis, take action and justify their positions in the company and why they get the extra pay.

THEY CAN'T DO IT!!!!

They're blaming CX

KA, melting down faster than the Arctic!
TW, You pay, We stay.

News of the problem from BKK:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_....php?id=123054



Troubled Dragonair forced to cancel flights


Hong Kong (dpa) - Hong Kong's second-biggest airline, Dragonair, is being forced to cancel up to eight flights a day as pilots quit the airline in unprecedented numbers, the airline confirmed Sunday.


Six captains resigned within a week earlier this month, and 34 first officers or captains have handed in their notice in the last six months, say pilots who link the departures from the short-haul carrier to a dispute over rosters and pay.


On October 13, eight flights were cancelled - five between Hong Kong and Shanghai and two between Hong Kong and Taipei - with crew shortages cited as the reason in all cases and specifically cockpit crew shortages cited in two cases.


A year after its 1.5-billion-US-dollar takeover by Cathay Pacific, cancellations by the airline, which flies to routes around China and the region, are running at a rate of two a day, pilots say.


Pilots claim the resignations have been sparked by "bullying and intransigence," saying management have repeatedly refused to implement rostering agreements to ease the strain on pilots handling a growing volume of flights.


Dragonair, which has around 400 mostly expatriate pilots and operates around 100 flights a day, said in a statement Sunday that it was being impacted by a worldwide shortage of cockpit personnel.


A spokeswoman said that eight cancellations on October 13 were due to "crew sickness." The airline had already hired 57 new pilots this year and planned to hire 10 more before the end of the year and another 50 next year, she said.


One senior pilot who has been with Dragonair for more than 10 years said: "I have never seen morale so low. Pilots are leaving because they're thoroughly fed up with the management.


"We haven't had a pay rise for seven years, but it's not really a pay issue. We have asked for a roster agreement for years and years. Our union has provided two draft agreements, but management just look at them and nothing happens. The management are bullying and intransigent."


The pilot, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that eight cancellations in one day was unprecedented.


"It has usually been about two cancellations a day, but the situation is clearly getting worse," he said.


Dragonair pilots have imposed a contract compliance policy since March 2005 in their efforts to secure a rostering agreement, and a captain familiar with ongoing negotiations between the pilots association and management said talks were deadlocked.


Another senior pilot said: "The salary for a Dragonair pilot is no longer competitive because of inflation and the state of the US dollar, and the rostering situation has become untenable. With the increase in the flights schedule and the wet leased flights in China, some guys are doing 14 overnights a month, and they're just fed up with it.


"Our pilots are leaving to join Korean Air, Emirates and even Air China, which is offering postings based in Australia. In one week, we had six pilots leave - all of them captains."


A spokeswoman for Dragonair denied that the resignations were linked to the rostering dispute.


"There are currently more vacancies than there are pilots throughout the industry," she said. "Therefore, it is not surprising to see a degree of pilot turnover at Dragonair and many other airlines."


She said that talks have been ongoing with the Dragonair Pilots' Association "for some time" over issues including pay, conditions and rostering practices.


"We are awaiting a response from the pilots' representatives to our offer on the salary and benefits packages, which was made in early October," the spokeswoman said. "In addition, the company has formed a team to review the provision of some of the additional benefits provided to many of its pilots."

I don't know if this has been said already (well, 5 pages is a lot to read!) but, management ought to take a look at what Gulf Air did to stop the exodus... pay rises of 50-70% or so...

Unfortunately, things at Cathay are not yet as dire, but... with NR mentioning that oil prices might make Cathay have difficulty "sustaining profitability in 2008," (yeah, right!), there are most certainly interesting times ahead for Cathay's pilots AND management!

:eek: